IT headcount levels

[Anonymous]

Anyone hear what may or may not happen with IT headcount as part of Year YZ? You hear a lot of what will happen with the salesforce and global headcount but I don't hear much about what may happen with IT. I know their strategy to use contractors to handle support is supposed to help cushion any blow due to possible reductions.

[Anonymous]

Anyone hear what may or may not happen with IT headcount as part of Year YZ? You hear a lot of what will happen with the salesforce and global headcount but I don't hear much about what may happen with IT. I know their strategy to use contractors to handle support is supposed to help cushion any blow due to possible reductions.

Man, I left Lilly voluntarily a couple years ago and can tell you this headcount **** is one reason why (no, I was never reallocated or fired). That's all they ever seem to focus on. Re-allocations, re-structurings...finally leading to re-signations.

The company has basically gutted IT and ruined morale...and even the lifers know it. The lifers (those with 15 years or more) are in the worst position of all. They don't even know what it's like outside Lilly. I would suggest getting out right now because it's not getting better. Hear anything about the Greenfield rumor? With all the jobs going offshore to TCS and the R&D going to China, I tend to wonder if the company should simply just pack up and move the **** out. Might be a good idea before Obama gets his hands on the Internal Revenue Code.

Anyway, I can tell you that there are many talented people at Lilly who would be happier working elsewhere, but they just don't know it. They look at their benefit package and pay and simply don't think they can replace it...so they never consider looking. I was there and understand that mindset. In some cases, they are right. However, that is the minority of cases for sure. In my case, I made 15% more the year after I left, finally breaking 6 figures. I have a business now and will make over 50% more next year. Yes, it is much better out there.

..and no, I never cared for the red tape, constant meetings, unfulfilling projects, 6am meetings with India, projects that lasted for 5 years because 50 people were doing the work...half onshore, half offshore...that 5 good talented technical people should have been doing. 12 different roles on a project. What a joke. It's no wonder the projects take so long to get done.

[Anonymous]

Hope there is a bright spot outside of Lilly because that's where most of Lilly IT will be before long.

IT at Lilly is just a bad time. It's mostly COTS junk now where the company is pushing the vendors too hard and fast to get lousy software out the door. We get the garbage and then have to deal with it. This is very unfulfilling.

I imagine that both Tippe and Greenfield will get hit. There are not many IT left at Greenfield or Tippe anyway. Just another cut...with more to come. If IT folks aren't looking for a job outside Lilly now they ought to be. Maybe they will let folks stay and take a $30/hr contract job with CTG. They are already letting people talk to contractor companies.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who believes this notion of the company cutting contractor workforce first so they can retain employees when the shit hits the fan is smoking something. Remember, the contractors are doing the "essential" work, which is the stuff that MUST get done day to day to keep the business running. In a crisis, the first ones out the window are going to be the employees working on high-level "strategic" work, because you don't need that in a crisis. Sure, that's short-term gain at the expense of long-term results, but do you think the managers and directors care about that anymore?

This company is not going to take care of anybody but itself. I would hope by now everybody understands that after seeing 100+ people disappear over the past year. Unfortunately, some of those who were most prone to believing that they would be taken care of (the non-exempts with 20+ years) were the ones hit hardest.

[Anonymous]

I work in MI&CS and would like to hear from anyone who knows about what will happen with staffing levels after all these current projects wrap up in 2010-11. Last I heard we have ~220 FTE's in MICS and I would assume a majority of those are working on projects since most of our support is outsourced to TCS. Neil and Jenison say our staffing levels are in the best shape out of all IT components and we not see any folks reallocated or layed off. Most people will be placed in Business Analyst type roles at the sites after their project is finished. The numbers don't add up to me. I don't see how they would place even half of the 220 people currently out there in site roles.
And there won't be any other IT roles to be reallocated into if most compenents are in the position as us. There will be very few, if any, capital projects being worked on across IT during that 2011-2015 phase so what will everyone be working on?
I just wish they would step up and tell everyone what to expect after 2010. I think most people are sticking around because they believe Lilly will find them another role like in the past. Only this time there isn't going to be another role.

[Anonymous]

I work in MI&CS and would like to hear from anyone who knows about what will happen with staffing levels after all these current projects wrap up in 2010-11. Last I heard we have ~220 FTE's in MICS and I would assume a majority of those are working on projects since most of our support is outsourced to TCS. Neil and Jenison say our staffing levels are in the best shape out of all IT components and we not see any folks reallocated or layed off. Most people will be placed in Business Analyst type roles at the sites after their project is finished. The numbers don't add up to me. I don't see how they would place even half of the 220 people currently out there in site roles.
And there won't be any other IT roles to be reallocated into if most compenents are in the position as us. There will be very few, if any, capital projects being worked on across IT during that 2011-2015 phase so what will everyone be working on?
I just wish they would step up and tell everyone what to expect after 2010. I think most people are sticking around because they believe Lilly will find them another role like in the past. Only this time there isn't going to be another role.

Here are a couple numbers I've seen (semi-official, over a year old):
MI&CS Center: 2007 ~ 220 and 2010 ~ 160
Manufacturing sites: 2007 ~ 150 and 2010 ~ 150

[Anonymous]

The company has developed this career framework for IT folk. I don't understand it. Essentially, everyone's being outsourced and they have skill areas like testing, test lead, test coordinator, developer, and librarian in the mix. Will any Lilly employees ever have those jobs? My area has no employees doing this kind of work and even the development will not exist as most areas are moving toward COTS software. Once the COTS apps are in place the IT jobs are gone to the reallocation bin. Essentially they want everyone to be a BI facilitating outsourcing through FIPNet. They then wonder why IT employees are not engaged.

[Anonymous]

I assume merit increases will be frozen during YZ. Will we get some more of them valuable stock options?

I still can't help but to laugh at that video that Sidney and Charlie did in 02-03 about Lilly's fiscal past, present and future. (the one where the previous CEO made a cameo)

Sidney was so serious about making everyone think they were about to make boat load of money and then not even a year later all these drug launches started getting postponed.

He should of been showed the door just for that. But in typical Lilly fashion he was rewarded for it and given his $30 million golden parachute.

I bet they burned that video, I don't see it out on lava.

[Anonymous]

It is actually quite simple - run a comparision of the number of IT staff (employee or contractor) at each of the large Pharma and Biotech companies. What do you find? You discover that Lilly has a disproportionately large IT staff. Now look at value received from that staff and son of a gun, but you find that the ROI from the Lilly IT staff is at the bottom of the pile - yup - you've got it made as you can only get better - you can't get worse. Heim didn't create that mess - he just inherited it and the powers to be at Lilly allow it to go on and on and on...

[Anonymous]

Oh Lilly IT-ers, step outside, look around and realize that you are living and working in the most weird place known to man. Take a weekend where you don't drink of the Kool-Aid (by the way Jim Jones was from Indiana).

Lilly has this figured out quite well - you young first and second year IT-ers at Lilly - yup pretty attractive offer - how could you go wrong. But now the lousy years begin - where your raises and your pay fall below what you would make anywhere else in the universe.

If you managed to stay with this lovely company to the point that you can actually retire from it then you will again 'cash out' but you will have sold your soul to the devil - you will never be the person you could be - because you will have to play the politics of Lilly.

You aren't allowed to speak your mind, to challenge the status quo, to point out that the Emperor has no clothes, never has, and sadly will never. The cultural change required at Lilly would require leveling that beautiful corporate campus and starting anew.

Poor Eli is rolling over in his grave - but he's been doing that for so many years what's another??

[Anonymous]

It is actually quite simple - run a comparision of the number of IT staff (employee or contractor) at each of the large Pharma and Biotech companies. What do you find? You discover that Lilly has a disproportionately large IT staff. Now look at value received from that staff and son of a gun, but you find that the ROI from the Lilly IT staff is at the bottom of the pile - yup - you've got it made as you can only get better - you can't get worse. Heim didn't create that mess - he just inherited it and the powers to be at Lilly allow it to go on and on and on...

Really? Where did you get your numbers? Are you sure you're not a congressman? You're lying and you're bad at math!

[Anonymous]

Oh Lilly IT-ers, step outside, look around and realize that you are living and working in the most weird place known to man. Take a weekend where you don't drink of the Kool-Aid (by the way Jim Jones was from Indiana).

Lilly has this figured out quite well - you young first and second year IT-ers at Lilly - yup pretty attractive offer - how could you go wrong. But now the lousy years begin - where your raises and your pay fall below what you would make anywhere else in the universe.

If you managed to stay with this lovely company to the point that you can actually retire from it then you will again 'cash out' but you will have sold your soul to the devil - you will never be the person you could be - because you will have to play the politics of Lilly.

You aren't allowed to speak your mind, to challenge the status quo, to point out that the Emperor has no clothes, never has, and sadly will never. The cultural change required at Lilly would require leveling that beautiful corporate campus and starting anew.

Poor Eli is rolling over in his grave - but he's been doing that for so many years what's another??

You have to be a current or former employee to be that accurate with your assessment (Other than the assertion that Lilly doesn't pay well, which in relative terms they do). Actually Lilly is filled with many talented people doing mindless work wasting years and years of their lives. It is a waste of talent. They are paid relatively well and the job is fairly easy, which are the reasons anyone stays there or should stay there. The company isn't even a safe place to work anymore. The golden handcuffs no longer exist even though some people seem to think they're still there.

[Anonymous]

I would be updating my resume if the FDA approval doesn't come through on Sept 26th.

[Anonymous]

If the FDA comes back with either a one year trial, or a no go on it, then a lot of people better be working on their resumes. Each department has a plan in place now for this from what I know. Cuts will be across the board. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[Anonymous]

Even if it gets approved it may not be the money maker they once thought it would. I left lilly about a year ago and it's amazing how bad Lilly's image has become to outsiders. They need this thing to make $4-6 billion/yr and then they have to split that with their partner. I don't think that's going to happen. Byetta is going to be in the shi$$er real soon and they have all these drugs losing patent in 2-3 years. There are some smart people working at Lilly and I can't imagine they think their jobs will be safe once all this happens. Which means their only sticking around in hopes of a severance package, which won't be as good as the ones in the past. The more they let go the smaller the packages will be.

I think the only hope they have is this Alzheimers drug(s) in their pipeline, which won't be on the market for another 5 years.

[Anonymous]

Lilly IT has become a $&ithole to work in. All there is to do is to work through the reorgs, cuts, and reallocations. I imagine we will see plenty more IT cuts in October. They will want to get rid of folks before December.

[Anonymous]

I left Lilly IT as well more than 2 years ago. It has been 2 of the happiest years of the last decade for me. I did not necessarily foresee the troubles they are in at the moment, however. I left because the job became completely unfulfilling. Now that I see a bit of Lilly's near term future, it further confirms my decision to leave. My attitude is 1000% better now that I don't work there and I plan to make about 10% more than my "total compensation" at Lilly...which was not bad.

Anyway, the patent situation may get absolutely desperate in a couple years. It's like a ticking time bomb. I seriously doubt anything is going to save the company from multiple patent expirations, particularly Zyprexa.

The company lost its way about 10 years ago it seems. At some point during that decade...which was supposed to be an incredible one for the company...they turned on their employees. They went wild with outsourcing, sending work overseas, bringing in a bunch of H1B's, switched to a global/collaboration R&D model...simply, huge, huge fundamental changes to their business. Well, decisions eventually have repercussions...and we may see some big changes in a couple years if not sooner due to management's failed strategy.

[Anonymous]

I also left Lilly IT earlier this year and took many years of IT experience and Lilly business knowledge with me. I became very disillusioned, watched morale of co-workers and customers sink into the basement, and felt totally underutilized. There was no prospect of my job satisfaction changing, since most apps were converting to unsuitable generic COTS and IT technical positions were all changing to "business integrator" and project management. The entire IT model changed and not for the better. Add to that the changes in benefits and the pension plan, and it made more sense for me to get out sooner rather than later. I haven't looked back, DO NOT MISS LILLY AT ALL, and am so much happier now it is amazing. I can't believe I wasted all those years there, working so hard for no good reason other than to support my family.

I still have friends in Lilly IT with whom I keep in touch, and in the time since I have left, the attitudes and situation have become even worse. Everyone that I still know in Lilly IT, to a person, are praying for a layoff because that will motivate them to find more satisfying jobs. Some are actively looking outside Lilly and will leave on their own soon. The rest are unmotivated, doing the minimum to get by and are just waiting for the ax to fall and put them out of their misery. Lilly has really blown it with IT.

[Anonymous]

I also left Lilly IT earlier this year and took many years of IT experience and Lilly business knowledge with me. I became very disillusioned, watched morale of co-workers and customers sink into the basement, and felt totally underutilized. There was no prospect of my job satisfaction changing, since most apps were converting to unsuitable generic COTS and IT technical positions were all changing to "business integrator" and project management. The entire IT model changed and not for the better. Add to that the changes in benefits and the pension plan, and it made more sense for me to get out sooner rather than later. I haven't looked back, DO NOT MISS LILLY AT ALL, and am so much happier now it is amazing. I can't believe I wasted all those years there, working so hard for no good reason other than to support my family.

I still have friends in Lilly IT with whom I keep in touch, and in the time since I have left, the attitudes and situation have become even worse. Everyone that I still know in Lilly IT, to a person, are praying for a layoff because that will motivate them to find more satisfying jobs. Some are actively looking outside Lilly and will leave on their own soon. The rest are unmotivated, doing the minimum to get by and are just waiting for the ax to fall and put them out of their misery. Lilly has really blown it with IT.

I'm the previous poster #17. I agree with every word here. Good for you for making what is not an easy decision. So many people are convinced it's their best option for various reasons. It was not too tough for me because I had worked elsewhere...and had several things to compare. However, many people will look at a former Lilly person's resume' and wonder why in the world they would leave. I got that a few times, and I bet I lost some opportunities simply because I had Lilly on my resume'. In some ways this is funny because people have some serious misconceptions....but that is changing. I have heard several professionals on the outside describe the situation at Lilly, so not everyone still thinks this is Lilly of the 80's.

Anyway, it is nice being out of the Fortune 500 offshore outsourcing world. I find more opportunities to work directly with customers and solve real world problems on a daily basis....rather than sit in meaningless meetings all day wasting my life away. For those interested, I would recommend moving to a midsize company...at most 2000 employees. The management teams typically spend more time actually managing their business and recognizing talent, and less time figuring out how to send work to Asia or attending the latest Six Sigma meeting. Really, it is a sad joke working at Lilly IT.

[Anonymous]

Interesting to note that in yesterday's Fipnet presentation attendees were told we are an "information company". Hmm. I thought we were a pharm or chemistry company. I knew we were not a software company...as they keep saying that. At the very minimum, employees should have been told long ago that the goal of the company was to become an information company. Anyway, we are now an information company. Surprise!

[Anonymous]

To add to the previous post, what about the comment that there are 17 IT departments at Lilly.......makes you wonder how they are going to decide who to cut.

[Anonymous]

Not sure of the numbers but depending on what the FDA decides next week it could be more or less. Cuts will come. That is a guarantee. Too many departments are working on outsourcing plans right now. Schmucks are outsourcing their own jobs and being told that they will have "other opportunities to do more interesting and versatile work" in the new and improved IT world.

[Anonymous]

The scuttlebutt I hear now is that all departments will be reduced in size by 20%, including IT, if the FDA does not approve prasagruel. The plans are already in place, they are just waiting for the word from the FDA, which should come down this week. In my network, opinion is divided about 50-50 on whether the FDA will approve or not.

IMHO, criteria for who gets cut will be:

1. People close to retirement or making higher salaries.
2. Dead wood and annoying people. Typically, companies like Lilly who are reluctant to fire low performers use layoffs to get rid of people who "don't play well with others" or are minimal producers.

[Anonymous]

Your scuttlebutt must be smoking some crack

[Anonymous]

Go read the Ask John message board. Mike Heim answers a question about IT being outsourced to IBM and points out that an RFP was released to outsource EIS and IBM is one of the companies invited to bid.

Bye-Bye, EIS. No rumor about that one. Mike Heim has that info posted publicly.

[Anonymous]

Yes IBM (India Business Machines) used to be an American based company. Back in the day, they used to hire many, many Purdue grads. Now our college students bus tables and live with their parents. Oh, how times have changed. ...and it's no wonder Eli China is doing this. Multinationals have all moved to Asia and the interesting US jobs outside upper management are drying up....and soon the execs will wise up and move HQ out of the US to avoid skyrocketing Obamataxes. So get out while you can.

Seriously, if you are in Lilly IT you need to go find a career somewhere. Get out of the multinational world and do something meaningful with your life. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, and there's a lot of wasting going on. Also, get informed. You can replace the LLY package and even exceed it. Personally, I am projecting 160K in revenue for '09 unless the meltdown gets me. I never exceeded 100K in salary at LLY over the course of nearly a decade. I did OK for my standards, but not at all as good as now. If you have soft skills, business acumen and you are technically savvy, you can make substantially more total compensation elsewhere. Wake up before 2011 folks!