Has anyone ever worked for a female manager?

[Anonymous]

When I make this comment I am generalizing but....Here is my observation with 20yrs in the business. Women complain that they are not being promoted. They say it is discriminaton.
The young women that I see today want it all. They want the $$ the position,the marriage and the kids. Something has to give. Usually I see that the job takes a back seat .Now her team mates end up with most of the responsibility for the Territory. If she gets promoted to manager usually she has something to prove as she is insecure with her abilities and as such micromanages everyone because this is her comfort zone.Do not get me wrong , I have had my fill of poor male managers. But I believe it takes a very special women to manage people in this business. Why is it that most of the female managers I have encountered are pit bulls? For that matter most of the new 20 something female reps are pushy, aggressive and think they are gods gift to Pharma.
Any comments from 40 something experience?

[Anonymous]

female here with 20yrs exp.//I've had good and bad female rmgrs.--can't really generalize in that dept. I think the training of all mgrs in recent history is to be overly aggressive --metric measuring instead of relationship building and moving market share--this is the problem.

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
When I make this comment I am generalizing but....Here is my observation with 20yrs in the business. Women complain that they are not being promoted. They say it is discriminaton.
The young women that I see today want it all. They want the $$ the position, the marriage and the kids. Something has to give. Usually I see that the job takes a back seat . Now her team mates end up with most of the responsibility for the Territory. If she gets promoted to manager usually she has something to prove as she is insecure with her abilities and as such micromanages everyone because this is her comfort zone. Do not get me wrong, I have had my fill of poor male managers. But I believe it takes a very special women to manage people in this business. Why is it that most of the female managers I have encountered are pit bulls? For that matter most of the new 20 something female reps are pushy, aggressive and think they are gods gift to Pharma.
Any comments from 40 something experience?

[/ QUOTE ]

40 year old female here with 12+ years in the business. My most recent manager was a female. SHE WAS FANTASTIC!! The best manager I have ever had --- period.

Here is the caveat about 'good' managers. What is good for you, is awful for someone else. So for me she was great. Extremely secure. Had no problems acknowledging my contributions. Not in the least bit threatened by me or anything I did. I could not have had it better. She could have done week long ride withs because her input was so right on, and it helped me to move the business forward and improve my selling ability. She is the kind of coach I needed to get to the next level in my ability. BTW she was a great deal younger than me.

Generally speaking you are right on; something has got to give. And whether any woman admits it or not, something does-- the marriage, the kids, the job. And in this industry letting the job fall is not the option.

Here is where I disagree. I feel most women who become DM's do so for the same reason men do-- they want more money, they feel competent and this is the next step for them. I don't think insecurity has anything to do with it.

The crazy behavior begins once DMs of either sex get into the position and perhaps THEIR boss is awful, or the job demands are incongruent with what they expected and what you see (micromanaging, nit picking, annoying voice mails, dreary ride withs, endless reports) is how someone deals with pressure and stress. Most of what DMs ask you to do, is to fulfill a requirement of the regional.

IMO the DM job is the worst in the company. Pressure from the top and whining from below. Please spoon my eyes out now!!

Men also feel they are God's gift to pharma. Men are aggressive too; it just looks better on them. But believe me tons of people male and female get the Pharma BigHead syndrome once they get in the industry. http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads/images//graemlins/laugh.gif

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[Anonymous]

Been in the industry 20 years. I have worked for both, good and bad managers. Also male and female. My female managers have been better overall managers than my male managers. They typically look at the business in a different way and look at each rep by their strengths and weaknesses and also take the time to explain how you are being evaluated. I also worked for one female DM who made it her lifes goal to fire/eliminate as many reps as she could. And she ended up getting rid of 7 reps in 2 years. She got promoted and then left the company on her own. I have also worked for a few male DMs who were enlightened and knew what the game was and let it happen. These districts typically won awards and kicked ass! The problem is you can't tell untill you start working for a manager how it's going to be! http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads/images//graemlins/grin.gif

[Anonymous]

[quote
IMO the DM job is the worst in the company. Pressure from the top and whining from below. Please spoon my eyes out now!!

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[/ QUOTE ]

I had a DM once tell me that being a DM is like sittling on a stool in an aquarium. Shit comes down from the top and that makes shit come up from the bottom. The question is when will the two meet up? http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads/images//graemlins/wink.gif BTW-That was told to me by a female manager 14 years ago, and I think she might be right!

[Anonymous]

Yes! When you have a female manager you have to play the
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You are describing exactly what I need to do for my manager!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!AND HE IS A MAN!
What an idiot you are. I sure hope that you are on the managers radar screen. You are a pathetic loser! I have had both male and female managers. It is my personal experience that it is the male managers who are the more petty and act like cheerleaders (but I also have seen female managers act that way too). I can not tell you how many times I have watched my current manager act like a cheerleader when the upper management walks by. I even watched a male manager run across a meeting room to get the Regional Manager a chair when he walked in! It was pathetic. Do not generalize - male managers act and expect exactly the same things you posted about with your female manager.

[Anonymous]

10 year female vet here. I have had some excellent female managers, but what bothers me most about the trend in the industry is the hiring of young, 20-something year old managers with 1 year of success in the field. These types are often complete phonys. Let's face it, a vacant territory can have a banner year under the right circumstances. I have had managers with fluff for brains and strong kissing up skills- nothing more. In this case, it is the young female managers who tend to be threatened by the industry veterans. I have had poor male managers, but never a vindictive one.

[Anonymous]

Nice thread - 15 yrs in the industry, male. I agree that generally female DMs are pitbulls, but I also see males who think they're hot stuff when they become DMs. At meetings, they always want to act like they're the smartest person in the room. Females seem to be more creative and helpful.
The poster that said young DMs are the worst hit it right on the head. They lack life experience that helps them deal with situations.

[Anonymous]

Yes! When you have a female manager you have to play the pharma game perfectly! Assuming you are male. Twice a week leave peppy upbeat, energetic success strories or updates on what your doing. Remember when you ride with her or call remind her that you used one of her sales technigue's she talked to you about and it worked. When you ride with her ask her for a leadership role somehow you can help her since she is SO busy. You can help her by sending out reminders for inventory, expense updates, journal club liaison etc! You must be proactive and look like your doing more than she thinks. Show her at lunch one day your business plan and how you are analyzing your business and the math equation your using to find your results etc, this will be way over her head noway she will comprehend a thing, but she will think your doing more than asked of you, going outside the box. When its time for her birthday you have to be the one to collect money and give it to her. Whatever you do don't giver any administrative reason to put you on her short list! Stay off the radar. Male managers have shorter memories and will let something slide, but not most women. If you follow these instructions you will be fine. Just remember to stroke her ego everytime you talk by reminding her how great it is to have a cool DM and how you understand how busy she must get and etc etc etc! Good luck!
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You are describing exactly what I need to do for my manager!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!AND HE IS A MAN!
What an idiot you are. I sure hope that you are on the managers radar screen. You are a pathetic loser! I have had both male and female managers. It is my personal experience that it is the male managers who are the more petty and act like cheerleaders (but I also have seen female managers act that way too). I can not tell you how many times I have watched my current manager act like a cheerleader when the upper management walks by. I even watched a male manager run across a meeting room to get the Regional Manager a chair when he walked in! It was pathetic. Do not generalize - male managers act and expect exactly the same things you posted about with your female manager.

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[Anonymous]

The stereotypes will never end:
He is assertive, she is agressive or hostile
He 'lost his cool', she is menopausal or emotional

The same behaviors in a man are seen as negative in a woman. Imagine a great leader, and the skills they possess. Now tell me how you would see a woman in this role. If you thought a woman could possess the leadership traits needed, you would probably characterize her as less feminine.

The best managers are intelligent, empathetic, and believe in the value of their people. They have some interests, be it family or hobbies, that lessen the importance of work. The worst managers see work as the most important thing in their lives and would stab their mother in the back if they thought it would make them look good.

I've had signifcantly more male managers than female. The three best are men, as are the three worst. I do agree that insecurity is absolutely the leading cause of micromanagement, but I don't see this as a female trait. Quite frankly, women who are willing to make the sacrifices to get ahead generally have more moxie than any man alive. The issue I see with many young women AND men today is they desire the promotion, but don't want to make the necessary sacrifices. Young men seem to be much more willing to totally sacrifice their family's needs to move ahead. Your statements about being pit bulls and micromanagers is true of most young managers if they lack the experience and life skills to manage. I also think this is true of those who sell out on their families and the most important thing in their life is their job.

Female here, who just moved into management a year ago. My kids are older, so don't need as much of my time. I have enough year's of experience that I've learned to value different styles and approaches. And I'm smart enough to know I'll never know everything, and can still learn from others. I'm agressive and demanding, but far from a micromanager. I'm given that luxury by working with a smaller company.

BTW: The three worst managers were not only all men, but were 50+, 35, and 35. The three best were 31, 35, and 45. From my experience, I can't tell you who is best based on age or sex. There's lots more to the story.

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
10 year female vet here. I have had some excellent female managers, but what bothers me most about the trend in the industry is the hiring of young, 20-something year old managers with 1 year of success in the field. These types are often complete phonys. Let's face it, a vacant territory can have a banner year under the right circumstances. I have had managers with fluff for brains and strong kissing up skills- nothing more. In this case, it is the young female managers who tend to be threatened by the industry veterans. I have had poor male managers, but never a vindictive one.

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22 year male rep here. I worked for one of those one year wonders. She came from big pharma had one year in field and one year as trainer then became my manager. I was selling when this B*$% was still in diapers. She definitely had a issue with me. She would lie her butt off in my field visit reports. She did everything in her power to make me look like an idiot. She would go out of her way to argue with anything I said. Then she would tell her boss about how argumentative I was! What a psycho! All this time my sales were one of the best in the district. She finally got her wish when I left the company. BIG time difference from the first female manager I had. She was great and still a good friend. That manager did her time in the field and showed great skill and insight as a manager.

[Anonymous]

Chris, what are you doing posting on the industry vets board?

Dude, you got to get over that manager and move on! http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads/images//graemlins/blush.gif

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes! When you have a female manager you have to play the pharma game perfectly! Assuming you are male. Twice a week leave peppy upbeat, energetic success strories or updates on what your doing. Remember when you ride with her or call remind her that you used one of her sales technigue's she talked to you about and it worked. When you ride with her ask her for a leadership role somehow you can help her since she is SO busy. You can help her by sending out reminders for inventory, expense updates, journal club liaison etc! You must be proactive and look like your doing more than she thinks. Show her at lunch one day your business plan and how you are analyzing your business and the math equation your using to find your results etc, this will be way over her head noway she will comprehend a thing, but she will think your doing more than asked of you, going outside the box. When its time for her birthday you have to be the one to collect money and give it to her. Whatever you do don't giver any administrative reason to put you on her short list! Stay off the radar. Male managers have shorter memories and will let something slide, but not most women. If you follow these instructions you will be fine. Just remember to stroke her ego everytime you talk by reminding her how great it is to have a cool DM and how you understand how busy she must get and etc etc etc! Good luck!
---------------------------------------
You are describing exactly what I need to do for my manager!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!AND HE IS A MAN!
What an idiot you are. I sure hope that you are on the managers radar screen. You are a pathetic loser! I have had both male and female managers. It is my personal experience that it is the male managers who are the more petty and act like cheerleaders (but I also have seen female managers act that way too). I can not tell you how many times I have watched my current manager act like a cheerleader when the upper management walks by. I even watched a male manager run across a meeting room to get the Regional Manager a chair when he walked in! It was pathetic. Do not generalize - male managers act and expect exactly the same things you posted about with your female manager.

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Don't rip me on what my experience has been. What I have done has treated me very well. I am just sharing with the OP what has been my experience. Both sexes can be bad DM's, but when you have a crazed moody women as your DM you have to play the game perfect!

[Anonymous]

I've had great female and male managers. No difference between the sexes if you ask me. The red flag to look for are the managers who never show their human side, the yes men and yes women. The ones who have a bad reputation, the unethical ones (these who do whatever they can to increase sales, like violate the HIPPA law). Everyone knows who these toxic managers are!! If you have a great manager, that is nirvana!! You need to experience an awful manager to really appreciate a good one. If enough reps file complaints against bad managers in their exit interviews (use specific examples) you can really help out the other reps under them! http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads/images//graemlins/wink.gif

[Anonymous]

When enough complaints are filed against the one person, suspicions are raised and eventually they are fired, even HR and your hiring RM can only support you so far....Karma is a bitch ready to slit your throat! http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads/images//graemlins/wink.gif

[Anonymous]

The bigger problem is age & lack of experience, and that we promote people to manager positions without making them excel as reps first.

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
The bigger problem is age & lack of experience, and that we promote people to manager positions without making them excel as reps first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, there is nothing that has ever shown me that a good rep makes a good manager. Sometimes if they are a rep for more than 2 years they see what it takes to be a good rep and can help their reps get their. But typically, every short term successful good rep I've seen get promoted has burned out as a DM in a year or so.

[Anonymous]

What I wonder is, who is the OP and what was his motivation for posting this on several threads/boards?

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The bigger problem is age & lack of experience, and that we promote people to manager positions without making them excel as reps first.

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Sorry, there is nothing that has ever shown me that a good rep makes a good manager. Sometimes if they are a rep for more than 2 years they see what it takes to be a good rep and can help their reps get their. But typically, every short term successful good rep I've seen get promoted has burned out as a DM in a year or so.

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Thats what I was saying dummy. I think you need to prove yourself as a rep for at least 5 years before becoming a manager. And it needs to be in more than just primary care, and you need to be over 30 years old.

[Anonymous]

I had a female DM once and I had bad numbers at the same time so she was tough on me. One day she took my head a shoved it between her legs. I ate her pussy out and she was always nice to me after that.

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats what I was saying dummy. I think you need to prove yourself as a rep for at least 5 years before becoming a manager. And it needs to be in more than just primary care, and you need to be over 30 years old.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW! Aren't you about the most profound thing posting here on CP! I am so impressed! YOU need to be in upper management in major pharmaceutical company, that is, just in case you aren't. (and I believe with your "tude" your NOT!) http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads/images//graemlins/smirk.gif

[Anonymous]

As an RD, yes RD, I have seen omly one female manager in 23 years that was worth anything. The majority of them have trouble managing men. In fact, if you took the bottom 25% of your companies DSM's, 99% we be female. As an RD I have a "token" female in my smallest volume district. Promoting a female is always a huge gamble. Promoting a female into a regional position is always a disaster. Large amouts of DSM ask for transfers or leave.

Just a fact.

[Anonymous]

Please excuse the poor typing. I'm accessing Outlook from a palm. Also, I do have many highly successful female reps in my region and a great deal of respect for them as reps.

[Anonymous]

regional my ass

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
As an RD, yes RD, I have seen omly one female manager in 23 years that was worth anything. The majority of them have trouble managing men. In fact, if you took the bottom 25% of your companies DSM's, 99% we be female. As an RD I have a "token" female in my smallest volume district. Promoting a female is always a huge gamble. Promoting a female into a regional position is always a disaster. Large amouts of DSM ask for transfers or leave.

Just a fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's too bad things have gotten so politically correct that you can't just come out and say this. That way, you would be seen for the sexist fool that you are. I wish idiots like you wore a big sign so I could avoid you and the company you work for like a plague. Perhaps one of the reasons your experience shows women performing in the bottom is because you place them in crappy districts as a 'token'. And I'm sure, with an attitude like yours, you mentor her the same way you do the men, offer her the same growth opportunities, etc. Look back at hiring history and minorities were also set up to fail from just this kind of process as they broke into higher management levels.

Women out there - learn something from this message - if you are interested in management, look closely at the number of women in higher positions and their assignments compared to the men's. There are great companies out there that see you for the job you do, not the sex you are. I work for one! You've seen me post here before, as the RM with a very small oncology company. 40% of the regional positions are filled by women. My region is #3 out of 10 at this time. Two years so far, and not one manager has left. The difference is, the NSM has been an incredible mentor and leader for the men AND women, unlike the PP who clearly devalues and hates women. These idiots don't wear a big sign, but if you listen to them, they divulge their stupidity pretty clearly: half of the sales reps are probably women, yet promoting ANY woman to a district level is 'always' a gamble and to regional is 'always' a disaster. Those that speak in such broad generalities about age, race, or sex, are often terribly insecure and afraid of those that can show them up. Women - you can do better than getting stuck working for this kind of moron!

[Anonymous]

Wow - what a great reply. I wish I knew what small oncology company you were working for - any clues? I would love to leave the very large oncology division I have been working at to move to such a refreshing place. Currently working for the worst manager ever in my career. Won't even say if male or female because I don't think it matters. Facts are some managers with no experience in a new selling arena are threatened by those of us who have sold and been very successful.

[Anonymous]

Contact Jen Price at the Bowdoin Group. She handles most of our openings. If you already have at least 2 years of oncology experience, you can write your own ticket into almost any small oncology company out there. Read up on ASCO, chemo foundation, and SABCS news, and educate yourself thoroughly so you make a good company choice.

[Anonymous]

This one would probably be a star as a manager.
http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=63731

[Anonymous]

Hey Gang, this is 2006-who cares what the gender is??? If
you are a talented, mature, business smart person you can work for anyone... if you are not, you can't. Food for thought, if you want to move up the ladder...gender can't be a concern or an issue. It's hitting the numbers with a group of highly motivated individuals with the same goal. Focus on the big picture.

[Anonymous]

unless you are over 45 years old (exp. a female)...then it won't matter a tinker's damn what you do....

[Anonymous]

You must be a women