The Amgen decision for the bullpen vs offices

Open office not so hot now huh?

 

As a field sales employee, I have avoided moving in-house. Over the years I have watched how the work space has "evolved".

I never got the "open space" model. It reminds me of working at a coffee house where your boss can constantly look over your shoulder.

It looks like that model is coming back to bite you in the booty.

 

Lol yeah sounds like you're the one with issues. No one looks over anyone's shoulder. This model is way better. Almost everyone likes it.

 

No matter how much your management lies to you, no one cares what the field thinks. Even the field people that move to TO hate the sales reps.

 

Lol and the field think they know all about Amgen when the reality is they see the littlest snippet of the company. Less than anyone else. Your world is small. Enjoy getting paid to work very little and not be that educated. But don't pretend to know shit about this company because you're not involved in it's ongoings outside selling and your exposure to senior management is minimal at best.

 

You sound nice

 

It is too loud and distracting. Can’t forget to mention colds and flu going around because this ONE man or woman has to still come to work like an idiot. Not that the old offices were great (old cubicles) but at least you had some personal space. These are pretty and trendy and that’s about it.

 

I am old so have witnessed the evolution. The open office ethic came from Europe, specifically those countries that have state based economies (France, Italy, etc) and not from the more entrepreneurial based economies (UK, Germany, etc). These are the type of people, since WWII, who don't really believe in the concept of property ownership. They prefer soccer to football, prefer wine spritzers to cold beer, and rely upon others to safeguard their security. Damnation to our leaders who allowed this.

Open offices simply produce lower productivity and higher long term costs. The health benefits are only now being understood. Open offices bring out the worst in people behavior. Privacy is lost and actual collaboration is down. Noise cuts down on concentration. Lighting, heating, etc cannot be adjusted to individual needs.

In theory, it was a good idea but in practice it's a failure. Much like the many TO individuals who have good ideas, but simply are wrong about what helps and hurt the sales force. It's not that they are bad people. They are in fact very smart. It's just that if you have been out of the field for more than 24 months, you are out of touch. Sad.

 

This is one of the most articulate descriptions of Amgen TO. I completely agree with your points. Privacy is one of the biggest reasons why I have refused to go in-house. It is not worth it to me anymore.

For years, across many pharma companies, upper level managers "think" they have a pulse on the field. They will point towards their 2 field travel trips (that were conducted with a top level talent) as rational that they have a deep understanding of field activity. They forget that those 2 trip were "milk runs" that were micro-managed by a regional and DM to the rep. I know this because I was that rep that took a VP to soft offices in order to get myself promoted into management.

Upper manager will also point towards their outstanding relationships with KOLs because they attended an Academy meeting and took to dinner a speaker. They forget that the KOL speaker will tell them ANYTHING to keep clinical testing, drug advisement and lecture opportunities open.

Field based managers and reps need home office help. We also deserve a lot more respect for what we bring to the table. You need to remember that those in TO may not be the greatest and brightest....they are the ones that made a sacrifice to move to California.

 

Truth!

 

First of all...the people in TO are definitely on the average better and brighter than sales reps. Deny it all you want. The caliber of people is just better. Better educated, end up earning more, etc. I think people wouldn't have such an issue with sales reps if it wasn't for the attitude they have. It's an attitude of...we are the ones who keep the company afloat, we're so smart, we know so much about what's going on, this level of arrogance, and it's not just in this industry. People who flock to sales jobs in most fields tend to think very highly about themselves and what they can do and know. It's probably why they can sell shit, because they're good and talking and making shit up. But for us in the home office, we see through your bullshit and we know how much you actually contribute and how much you really know about the company. I know plenty of people in the home office who spent years in sales. They just don't stay there because they are too smart and have higher aspirations for their careers.

And lastly, why is moving to California a sacrifice? I mean yeah I hate that it's a liberal crazy town and the laws suck but New York is pretty much the same and that's my other favorite city. I like Florida too. That is my favorite place. But I can tell you it's hardly a sacrifice. I'd definitely rather live here than somewhere in the middle,of the country. But if Amgen had an office in boca raton, sign me up.

I won't judge people who are happy never making over $200k, just don't be arrogant about what you know. This whole blaming BD and finance nonsense is a joke. Mainly because people in sales have literally no clue what BD or finance do. You have a tiny little snippet of the deals BD does, just the major acquisitions, and even then you have very very minimal context to the deal model, how we thought about the deal, why we did it, why it was ultimately successful or not (example being kyprolis failed due to poor development after the acquisition), etc. Way too many people here with opinions about shit they're honestly clueless about. How many of you know the PTRS on our key pipeline assets or which of our pipeline assets we have developed internally vs acquired? I bet very few.

 

And that is why this forum is a joke. You got owned.

 

priorities brother, priorities. some of us value "things" differently. consider:

cat 1: lives in the state he loves, surrounded by family and friends he/she grew up with, has a job that pays ok with great benefits. never misses a family event. never misses kids practices. never missed kids recitals. never misses kids school events. scratch golfer. plays 3 afternoons a week. fishes others. works out before crowd comes in. home every evening for meal with family. connected deeply to community. makes a difference locally. spends about 15 minutes a day in traffic total. lean, fit, healthy. happy.

cat 2: lives in high tax, ultra liberal sanctuary city. hour each way if traffic goes well from office. surrounded by other's who left their families behind as they slaved away to "aspirational lifestyle". often misses kids key life events. pays for childcare. a lot. spends money on yard work. on house cleaning. makes 50% more but can't tell. transient. no connection to local community. no real close friends. never satisfied.

not judging either one, but brother, I hope one day you come to realize $200k in California, NYC or South Beach is like $50k in Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, the Carolinas, Virginia, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, etc.

you don't know what you don't know

 

If you despise sales then you need to get out of this business altogether. That's what this business is all about. We can all say it's all about the patient and yes the patient for sure plays a huge factor when it comes to selling something you enjoy. However, if the company isn't making money(from SELLING their product) then everyone fails. There are the scientists that make the product in hopes people will BUY it. There is marketing that develops advertising campaigns that SALES uses to help persuade people to BUY product. If you despise sales reps then seriously do yourself a favor and find another gig.

 

This is very well stated. I would add:

Cat 1: has company car that is available for work and play. enjoys being home at 3pm each day and loves not working Friday afternoon.

Cat 2: Turns in car after move to TO and pays for wear/tear of personal vehicle. Is shocked that the price of gas has doubled from her Atlanta home. Wonders why all peers show up before 8am and will not leave until after 5:30 each day.

 

Yeah you definitely don't know because your example is just wrong. I make over 200 now and I'm not even 35 my man. My income will just keep going up. And I don't plan to work more hours. You have it all wrong. I guarantee I'm in better shape than you. I'll bet you as much money as u want and can prove it. And 200k here is absolutely not 50k somewhere else. You're an idiot. The cost of living isn't that high here. You've clearly never lived here. Also I live 8 minutes from the office. I'm very satisfied. Literally almost everything you said is bullshit and made up just to make you feel better about your life. The only thing I concede is the liberal sanctuary, but there are many positives offsetting that. Keep selling shit and telling your wife that these are all the reasons you'll never make 350-500 per year. You make it like I'm working investment banking hours weekly. Dumbass. And I'm going to call you out on lying about being a scratch golfer. I know tons of really really good golfers and few are that good. You lie about just about everything else probably full of shit there too

 

You obviously do not understand this business at all. And by the way, marketing spends far more time on strategy than they do on marketing campaigns. Have you ever even been involved in marketing? Lmao. Like I've said people in sales have literally no clue what anyone else in the company even does. Marketing doesnt come up with advertisements. That's a different group. You don't know town your own company works.

 

you need 3 things for a solid Pharma company-

1-solid scientists who take risks and deliver innovative products with phase 3 trial designs that allow differentiation

2-competitive sales people who are skilled at giving providers positioning comfort for products

3-strong leadership that understands 1 & 2

what doesn't drive sales -

1-training departments that think they drive sales

2-legal departments that think they have a job other than balancing risk/reward

3-teams of Bengalis who think they can assign ATLAS call responsibility by looking at data

 

Do you realize most big companies don't even develop their own assets anymore...at least not from discovery or preclinical. That's no longer the business model. Yes occasionally it happens. But it's not the norm. We pick them up. BD is involved far more in getting assets into R&Ds hands than any of you know. It's just not publicized because the deals are small. You don't know about it. 99% of the people here only know about our deals with value in excess of a billion. We do like a hundred other small deals a year.