Who is paying for xiaflex in Peyronie's?

Discussion in 'Auxilium' started by Anonymous, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:30 PM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Right off the web...dude, seriously...

    Secondary Outcome Measures:

    Change in the overall satisfaction domain of the International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF) [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]

    The IIEF is a universally accepted scale. The scales vary by study subset.

    Several other scales are listed as well. There is no "distorted presentation of facts" other than your own.
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Who is selling a bother score? There is no psych study
    Keep going back to our weak trial data but there are serious gaps that we can't gloss over.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I am a little shocked you are not able to find your own employer's clinical trial press release and/or understand the data presented, as evidenced by you asking "what is mean change in symptom bother score" (with 3 question marks) and "no psych study or survey has been done." They are all online. The "symptom bother score" was a primary outcome measure. The IIEF is universally accepted (secondary outcome measure).

    Primary Outcome Measures:
    Change from baseline in the Peyronie's disease bother domain of the Peyronie's Disease Questionnaire (PDQ) [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
    Percent improvement from baseline in penile curvature [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]

    Secondary Outcome Measures:
    Change from baseline in the severity of Peyronie's disease physical symptoms [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
    Change in the penile pain domain of the PDQ in subjects with penile pain score of 4 at baseline [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
    A responder analysis based on subject global assessment [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
    Change in the overall satisfaction domain of the International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF) [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
    Change in penile plaque consistency [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
    Change in penile length [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
    Change from baseline in the severity of Peyronie's disease psychological symptoms [ Time Frame: Week 52 ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]

    “That’s it” in your mind, but that’s not "it" in reality. I already demonstrated you were wrong by citing 2 leading urology journals that demonstrated 50% of patients have ED with this. Also, I pointed out that over 40% have pain, based on medical journals. But, you replied by saying the “ED was psychological” for which you had no source. I tried to provide you with a simple analogy to a balloon wrapped in tape. I thought that might help you understand. Apparently not. I don't see what is so complicated, though.

    Also, since you (or another anon) said this is a “purely cosmetic drug” that would never be covered by insurance, I am comparing it to similar cases. Some people here are stuck on the (false belief) that it does not affect function. So, I am asking you why insurance would pay for breast reconstruction (after a mastectomy) but not for this - because a fake breast has no "function". I’d like to hear the reasoning. And, “reconstruction” means the cancer is gone. I did not say “why would they pay for the mastectomy?” I said – “why would they pay for reconstruction.” That was not a comparison to cancer. It was a comparison to a very expensive procedure that is unnecessary, functionally. But, many insurance companies pay. Insurance companies pay for urology visits when the diagnosis code is Peyronie’s disease. Why would they do that if this is a cosmetic consult?

    It could recur after surgery too. So, what is your point in dwelling on recurrence data?

    The two are different diseases with different causal factors. For one thing, the cords form next to the tendon. And, the tendon is otherwise healthy. In Peyronie’s – they bind to the healthy tissue that has (in many cases) been damaged in some way. The disease is stable at 1 year, unlike dupuytren's contracture which usually occurs in more than one finger. They are not the same.

    The chance of recurrence hasn't prevented verapamil injections from being covered...neither has the "cosmetic" argument nor the "it's not a functional" issue argument (which is inaccurate anyway).
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Not the OP but did you really just cut and paste some PDQ questions???
    Why???
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    maybe insurance companies might reimburse for severe curvatures but if those men were excluded from trial, won't the FDA approval only be for the severity that was studied?
    Will mcos pay for mild to moderate degrees of condition?
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Those aren't PDQ questions. They are names of surveys used in the study. The PDQ was a list of questions like "how much does this bother you" etc... which gets at the psychological component of the disorder.
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Will we be able to refer to published psychological studies on peyronies patients treated with xiaflex ?
    That would be a fabulous to claim relief of all the stress associated for patients. Is that what you are saying?
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Are you able to publish psychological studies from people that work in this sewer pit?
    Quality of Life before and after hire date?
    Before 10
    After -100000

    This place is awful!!!!!!
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    No. We have the IMPRESS publication. There are a couple survey questions included but nothing to make the claim suggested. Sorry.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    That wouldn't do shit for Xiaflex. That is considered quality of life. They need to claim that it is a deformity and that Xiaflex fixes he deformity to have any hope of getting reimbursed. Face it kiddos, Peyronies at best will add $50 million in peak sales and that is IF everything goes well. This ship is sinking quicker than Adrians value as a CEO.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    We need more studies and evidence to sell this properly
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Well, a recent review of all the studies showed 34% xiaflex improvement, 18% placebo...

    So, that might be a challenge. Then again, zoloft was even worse. It was equivalent to the placebo. They had to do FIVE studies before they got 2 that met the FDA criteria.

    The psych studies are validated and the data from them is clear (significant change vs. placebo which had no change). They aren't being communicated will internally because it hasn't been approved yet. So, they aren't going to waste their time. But, the data is online. The scales referenced can be looked up on google scholar and in journals.

    Urologists already know PD patients are miserable, and if you look around a little on patient forums - you will even see that some of them are suicidal (how would you like to lose 1/2 the size of your anatomy + have a curve + ED). You won't have to sell on psych data.

    The price, insurance coverage, and side effects are the major hurdles.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    34% of the % curve so a 15 degree reduction on a 45 degree curve vs 8 degree placebo
    At $33,000, we are going to have major trouble selling to docs/patients and obtaining insurance payments

    We can barely find patients or sell a single vial for $3300 for dupuytrens with 90% contracture release in one shot down to 0-20 degrees and paid for by every insurance company

    AA and his entire lot of limey toad lickers live in an alternate universe

    We will not meet goal/forecast expectations, as usual.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    And I will be on the floor laughing my tush off when you decide to NOT pink slip the leaders!!!
    This place has become an adult day care. I am going to drop my hubby off all day so I know where he is! I will just keep a copy of his routing in my purse!
    Babysitting/Stalking employees does not bring ROI
     
  15. Dr Newman

    Dr Newman new user

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    2 Penile Injections ( XIAFLEX® ) COST: 2 vials $2,650

    Injecting a drug right into the plaque brings higher doses of the drug to the problem than when a drug is taken by mouth. Plaque injection is often used for men with acute phase disease who aren't sure they want to have surgery. The skin is often numbed before the shot to reduce pain.

    Injection of CCG into collagen-containing structures such as the corpora cavernosa of the penis may result in damage to those structures and possible injury such as corporal rupture. Treatment of Peyronie's disease with intralesional therapy: Injection of collagenase is contraindicated in the treatment of Peyronie’s plaques that involve the penile urethra due to potential risk to this structure and in patients with a history of hypersensitivity to collagenase used in any other therapeutic application or application method. Injection of collagenase into collagen-containing structures such as the corpora cavernosa of the penis may result in damage to those structures and possible injury such as corporal rupture (penile fracture).

    https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/UCM200615.pdf
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Any one who wants to.
     
  17. collagenase poison

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    Xiaflex (Collagenase) for use in Peyronie's Disease
    Understanding Peyronie's Disease and Collagenase as a Treatment

    Auxilium pharmaceuticals developed a “highly purified” enzyme to dissolve this abnormal scar tissue called collagenase. It is produced by bacteria (prior versions were taken from animals), and it is the same enzyme responsible for tissue destruction when a person gets gangrene. Therefore, the dosage administered into penile scar tissue is minuscule (less than 1 mg) but can still have a strong effect.

    Auxilium had hundreds of men in their phase 3 clinical trial conducted at multiple urologist offices across the USA and in other countries. All men had to receive approximately 15-20 penile injections over the course of a year. Some injections were to artificially induce erections for the doctor so progress could be measured (and then another injection to cause the artificial erection to go down). The drug itself was injected 8 times, over the course of 8 visits. All patients had to visit the office between 15-20 times to determine eligibility and to perform measurements of drug efficacy. Patients were compensated around $500 (in total) for all visits, including the men who received the placebo (and thus, no benefit). One third of study participants received the placebo, and the remainder received the active drug. People who received the placebo improved by 18% whereas people who received the drug improved by 34%. “Improvement” was measured as the amount to which the curve of the penis was reduced. Data on overall penile length and reduction of narrowing were not reported by the drug company, despite the fact that data on penile length was collected and is a significant cause of concern for Peyronie’s patients.
    There are many concerns with this drug, and there are many falsehoods that are out there about how it works and exactly who got this 34% benefit. In general, Auxilium excluded any patient that had a complex case of Peyronie’s (no patients with a narrowing deformity called “hourglassing” and no patients who had calcium in their plaques were allowed in the study). Some think that this was done so that Auxilium could inflate how well patients responded to the drug and get FDA approval more easily. No single men or gay men were allowed in the study. It has been speculated that this was due to Auxilium’s worry that single men or gay men would put the drug in the “cosmetic” category in the eyes insurance companies, the most likely payor for these injections (which are $3000-5000 each). The real reasoning is not publicly known.

    1. The Auxilium version of collagenase is selective for scar tissue only. It will not dissolve blood vessels. It will only dissolve scar tissue.
    False. Dissolving capillaries causes blood to overflow into the skin, forming sacs filled with dark blood. This happens within hours of injection, and it can lead to permanent scarring once the blistered skin peels off. What collagenase does cannot be repaired by one's own bodily processes until much later.

    2. The collagenase molecule, once injected, will be able to “move through” the plaque and dissolve it. False. Collagenase (as a molecule) is huge and collagen molecules are huge. Injecting a tiny amount of collagenase into a collagen plaque in Peyronie’s disease will only dissolve the scar tissue in a tiny area around the injection site. The collagenase molecule simply is not able to move through a collagen plaque due to the size of the molecules. Once the enzyme (collagenase) binds to its substrate (collagen), it doesn’t “keep going” very far. That's why it takes 8 injections for a 34% improvement.

    3. Collagenase is the enzyme responsible for tissue destruction in gangrene.
    True. You are essentially causing gangrene of your own penis by allowing yourself to be injected with collagenase. It’s a “controlled” gangrene – but it is the same enzyme. It is isolated from bacteria, not animal sources. It is no different than botox in this regard, which is considered safe. However, botox has far fewer side effects to achieve the drug benefit.

    4. Collagenase does nothing to restore elastin, which has also been destroyed by Peyronie’s disease plaques.
    True. In lucky patients, it will dissolve some collagen scar tissue. However, the elastin that existed in the tunica albuginea before the disorder started is certainly not restored by an enzyme that destroys collagen. Some people whose scar plaques go away naturally still have curvature because of the damage caused by Peyronie's in general.

    5. Hourglass deformities (localized narrowing) of the penile shaft can be treated by collagenase.
    Unknown. Auxilium refused to enroll people with hourglass deformities in the study, possibly so that they would have more positive results in the end. There is no way to know if an hourglass deformity will be helped by collagenase. However, once the drug is approved for Peyronie’s disease, it may be used for hourglass deformities by patients with no other options (TBD).

    6. The best way to inject collagenase is in a line perpendicular to the penis, directly into the scar tissue (which was done in the trial).
    Unknown. All patients are different. Also, collagenase will not go very far beyond the area where it is injected into. So, a perpendicular line may only result in a mild benefit IF the plaque happens to be susceptible to injections made in that pattern. Injecting the substance vertically would risk needle injury to the neurovascular bundle in a dorsal plaque. However, multiple small injections or diagonal injections may be more beneficial. No known research was done to determine the injection technique.

    7. All patients should receive the same dose of collagenase, regardless of plaque size or penis size. These doses are uniformly supplied in powder form to the physician.
    True to Auxilium - but logically, it makes no sense. Why would you give the same dose to a man with a large penis and large plaque vs. a man with a small penis and small plaque? As packaged and tested in Phase 3, all patients get the same dose. Once the powdered collagenase is mixed with saline for injection, it has extremely limited storage life, so it cannot be split among patients or injected on separate occasions. Each powdered vial dose is approx. $4000.

    8. Collagenase can dissolve scar tissue in the penile septum.
    False (most likely). The penile septum cannot be injected due to severe risk of injury to the corporal bodies adjacent to this area. Collagenase will not “drip down” into the septum since the molecule is too big to move past the area where it is directly injected into. Almost all patients with peyronie’s disease have scar tissue in the septum (based on in vitro tissue sample analysis post operatively).

    9. Collagenase can help men with calcified penile plaques.
    Unknown. Auxilium excluded men with calcified plaques from participating in the study.

    10. Auxilium has quantified how well their drug works on plaque.
    False. Auxilium has never measured precisely how well the drug dissolves the scar tissue with any quantitative method. They are only (potentially) looking into this now – way after the drug has already been tested on human beings.
     
  18. Luis Newman

    Luis Newman new user

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    In 2019, Can PRP and Penile Traction Device Replace Collagenase to Treat Peyronie's Disease?

    Peyronie's disease (PD) is an accumulation of collagen in the penis that creates a scar, producing a deformity and pain in the erectile state, that affects between 1%-8% of men. ANDROMEDICAL laboratory proposes a new strategy to treat PD based on combined therapy of platelet-rich fibrin matrix (PRFM or activated-PRP) with Andropeyronie, a penile traction device (PTD) designed to treat penile curvatures. Now urologists, their patients and health insurance companies may have a cost-effective alternative to collagenase and surgery for effectively treating Peyronie's disease, without side effects of other therapies.

    In 2013 the US-FDA approved the use of collagenase (CCH) for its treatment. Collagenase is an enzyme that breaks the peptide bonds of collagen, but medical studies showed that effectiveness was limited to a 33% correction of penile curvature. In 2013, Dr. Martínez-Salamanca (Spain) carried out a hospital study with the penile traction device called PTT to treat Peyronie's disease in the acute phase, achieving a 60% correction of the curvature. In 2015 the American Urological Association recommends treating Peyronie's disease with combined collagenase therapy and Peyronie's plaque remodeling, done with manual exercises or with a soft progressive force for a few hours a day with a penile traction device (PTD).

    In 2018 Dr. Terlecki (USA) published a clinical study on the use of autologous platelet-rich plasma (PRP) in Peyronie's disease whose conclusions were that the activated-PRP or PRFM appears to be a safe and feasible treatment, more than 80% of patients improved in their degree of curvature. Evidence suggests that platelets play an important role in tissue repair, vascular remodeling and inflammatory and immune responses through secretion of growth factors, cytokines and chemokines. Thus, injection of PRFM could combine mechanical disruption of the plaque, via needle fracture, while simultaneously neutralizing destructive inflammatory processes in an effort to promote a better wound-healing response and stabilize the disrupted plaque. It is important to note that collagenase injection does not address appropriate wound healing or regeneration of the damaged tissue.

    In 2013 Dr. Chung (Australia) demonstrated that penile traction translates mechanical stimuli into a chemical response leading to activation of cell proliferation. In 2019 Dr. Romero (Spain) published a clinical study demonstrating that the use of a penile traction device reduces the need of cycles of collagenase in patients with Peyronie's disease.

    The world of urology is advancing rapidly and clinics are beginning to use this promising combined therapy of platelet rich plasma with penile traction therapy in hopes of wound healing and tissue regeneration. New treatment options for Peyronie's disease are opening up, with benefits for patients, urologists and health insurance companies. Therapy of PRP with PTD is an effective treatment without side effects, easily performed in the doctor's office and a cost-effective alternative to other therapies.
     
  19. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Endo Pharmacauticals has discontinued Collagenase Clostridium Histolyticum (CCH) injection in Australia and Asia, and plans to do the same to whole Europe by the end of 2019. The American laboratory has decided to withdraw it for economic reasons. As a result, the drug is no longer available except in the US and Canada. Now the only treatment options for Peyronie´s disease are surgery or Penile Traction Device (alone or combined with PRP), in the rest of the world. See official letter