Botox is SOOOO inferior to Dysport and Xeomin

Discussion in 'Allergan' started by Anonymous, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:48 PM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hey dumb ass,
    Do you even realize what you are saying? Dysport is cheaper and were still kicking their ass.
    Answer me that genius.
    Plus, you can't have a generic with a biologic product. All of these products are very precise and very difficult to make, so go do your homework and then come back with more BS.
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Dysport data blows and you ARE a douche.

    Plans are limiting Dysport to CD due to LACK of data!! And I know once the sales numbers begin pouring in showing Botox is still at a 95% market share YOU will disappear! Easy to pick on the market leader when you have NO details!!!

    BTW payors don't put injectables on a "formulary", they are covered in policy...Douche!

    Last comment..take a look at what happened in Europe if you want to see what docs do in this category when they have a choice...Douche!
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    What companies market Dysport and xeomin? I love working for the underdogs and these two products seem like they have nothing to loose.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Dysports goals are not any where near trying to take down Allergan, so stop the tough talk

    You are the market leader, YES YES YES

    We work in peace, get paid very well and have very attainable goals

    In the whole scheme of waking up every day, what would anyone prefer??

    Ipsen is a BIOLOGICS company as a whole. We get a lot of face time with a multitude of customers. Our payer MM teams get a great deal of face time also. Our clinical team gets a great deal of face time. Our marketing teams actually get good face time. Our trade side gets very good face time.

    We are not an aesthetic company trapped in and eye drop controlled pharma side. Medicis is sole org for aesthetics. We have no conflict of interest situations, and we do not spend ALL our time just calling on neuro's for toxin. So relax. I like my job and who I work for, can you say the same?
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest


    LOL, now calm down Nancy, don't get your frilly panties all in a tizzy. Is this what you are trained to say? well, i'll try to explain things in simple terms, given that your Sociology or communications degree from that online college may have impressed your fellow convicts in prison, but you need to understand SCIENCE.

    --- the data on dysport in plentiful, and excellent safety and effectiveness, as it is on xeomin. take a moment to do some research, not what your marketing handlers tell you, but that may be beyond what you understand. maybe your pimp can explain it to you.

    --- many staff on ipsen are from agn, so they are fully aware of your desperation and scheming ways. and many of them have grudges. they know what you are all about.

    --- the european payor model is very different from the US. Dysport just launched, and it is already getting acceptance. how long do you think something like Kaiser is going to tolerate a higher priced botox, when dysport is just as good and safe, and cheaper? xeomin the same? one by one they will see the logic and flip.

    --- there are many docs who are pissed at agn, simply because you screw your docs, so they are looking for a perfectly good alternative. you only pay attention to the big prescribers and buy them off, and when they don't obey, you threaten them.

    ---- in addition, with the wave of investigations going on with agn, the chatter amoung docs is to shy away from any associations with allergan. Such associations are now tainted, dirty, and with the increased scrutiny, docs just wanna cover their ass, and distance themselves from you. you have bought too many docs for years, bribed them with grants, threathened to pull grants if they didn't buy.....how long did you think you will continue with that behavior before it catches up to you? you can trust that the fda is on this. And it is a simple matter really, to look at a docs speaking honoraria and research grants and compare it to their use of botox....... do you really think that these docs want to risk prison? Risk ruining their careers and families? they have no loyalty to you! it's every man for himself. they are looking for a fresh start, and dysport and xeomin are perfect for that.


    --- the size of the sales force is entirely dependent on your current dominance. when you lose market share, who do you think will be the first to go? that's right, YOU...you useless tool....do you think that agn has any loyalty to you? they'll drop you like yesterdays' news. it's funny, and sad, actually, that you display so much loyalty to them, and they couldn't give a rats ass about your welfare. but, since your such a stupid gullible dolt, I guess you deserve what's coming toyou.

    --- it won't happen over night, but it will happen..... docs will wise up, see the perfect reasoning, and you will see your company crumble from its arrogance. too big, too demanding, the bigger they are, the harder they'll fall.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest



    When the poster mentioned data, they probably meant compendia data, not safety and efficacy data. If you think your "plentiful" data will get you equal coverage...then we feel much more at ease... :)
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    AGAIN I SAY!

    Dysports goals are not any where near trying to take down Allergan, so stop the tough talk

    You are the market leader, YES YES YES

    We work in peace, get paid very well and have very attainable goals

    In the whole scheme of waking up every day, what would anyone prefer??

    Ipsen is a BIOLOGICS company as a whole. We get a lot of face time with a multitude of customers. Our payer MM teams get a great deal of face time also. Our clinical team gets a great deal of face time. Our marketing teams actually get good face time. Our trade side gets very good face time.

    We are not an aesthetic company trapped in and eye drop controlled pharma side. Medicis is sole org for aesthetics. We have no conflict of interest situations, and we do not spend ALL our time just calling on neuro's for toxin. So relax. I like my job and who I work for, can you say the same?
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    To my previous point

    Whose stock dropped on the potential cosmetic tax for A Toxin

    Answer AGN and Medicis


    Just remember Ipsen has NOTHING to do with the cosmetic side of Dysport, NOTHING! No royalty, not strings, nothing!

    So relax yourself and sell some eye drops hahahahaha
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    yawn, arm stretch, sip of my cocktail...
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I agree and a good night sleep as well! All good here!
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Ok Andy... :)
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Cosmetic tax will affect everyone....
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I am a patient and have used them all and like Botox, explain more about this tax please.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I think the tax is 5% starting January 1, 2010. It will be on cosmetic surgery, including Botox.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    While it is true you can't have a generic biologic (yet) look at the Xeomin data. Pretty damc close

     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    you are right that toxins are not "put on formulary". But don't buy into the AGN propaganda that the competitors do have not data. They don't have as much but they have enough. Dysport has quite a bit in many off-label areas (mostly european studies) that Botx is currently reimbursement for. Also plans are starting to grant coverage beyond CD and the therapeutic product has been launched only for the last 4-5 weeks. Trust me (I used to work at Allergan), more plans will adopt broader coverage once compendia catches up. No need to take down the market leader. Just take 20-30% marketshare and the destruction will begin from within. the talent drain has already begun and will continue.


     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    yea, about as close as "damn" and "damc"
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Keeping joking smart a$$. The other toxin manufacuturers will have the last laugh as they watch your reps already pathetic Botox commissions drop even more. Already spoke to docs who are getting near 100% conversion to Dysport for cosmetic applications when presented to patient as their choice by the injector. Xeomin will be an even easier convert for docs. David Pyott should have taken GSK's buyout offer last year because he will never see that money again for AGN stock. Get out unless you want to ride that Titanic all the way to the bottom of the ocean floor.

     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    your all fools!!!!!!!!! we need botox & like products to survive the effects of dystonia-try that on one's face!! what is this world about-being able to work & enjoy life/or to look soooooooooooooo pretty for your friends. you should all be glad your without dystonia.however, i'm sure your all counting your money with the facial injections you give!!
     
  20. face to face

    face to face Guest

    I don't know where you got your information, however I'm here to correct you.

    First of all there is no "generic" to a biologic. The differences are not in the core molecule but rather the processing of the purified protein from the strain resulting in uniform molecules with naturally occuring protective proteins.

    As for your comparison to Dysport and Xeomin, you are obviously ill advised. Where are you getting your data that Xeomin and Dysport are better than Botox? Have you taken a look at the markets outside of the US where all 3 toxins have been competing for years? Who is the leader? Botox/Vistable. The only injectors using Dysport and/or Xeomin are those who aren't significant enought to register on Allergan's radar.

    Dysport - does NOT have a faster onset of action. Look at their clinically relevant and scientifically accepted studies. There is no data on Dysport prior to 7 days in regards to its onset. And as for duration, at 4 months very few patients are still satisfied.

    As for Xeomin - stripping the proteins makes this an artificial toxin. Botox has 750 kds of naturally forming protective proteins so that it doesn't need human serum albumin and sucrose to stabilize the core. And take a look at Xeomin's studies. Their package insert on page 12, figure 4 shows that at day 30, less than 50% of doctors and patients saw a 2 grade improvement from baseline. At day 60, less than 30% and at day 90, less than 10%. Compare that to the market leader-at 90 days, 63% and at day 120, 39% still had a 2 grade response.

    Make all the excuses you want, but a 90 day indication (Xeomin) is not the same a results up to and beyond 120 days.

    Next time do a little research. If I didn't know better, you were either fired from Allergan or interviewed and didn't get a call back. Good luck.