PharmD's are not doctors!

Discussion in 'MSL Board' started by Anonymous, Sep 11, 2007 at 2:00 AM.

Tags: Add Tags
  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    PharmDs are making a shit load of money and are pretty much guaranteed a job. Who's the real winner?
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    This entire thread is completely ridiculous. Pharmacists receive a doctorate degree. If they wish to utilize their titles, so be it. Of course, they shouldn't use it in a way which is misleading to the public. Personally, I'm really sick of arrogance in all fields. We all know that regardless of the professional school you attended, some are better and some are worse. And we've all had classmates who probably should not have made it through or even have been accepted, but they "knew the right people." That said, judge the individual (or even the school!), not the field.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Also, lawyers need to stop whining. We're never going to call you "doctor."
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I completely agree with this thread. PharmDs are pharmacists, not doctors. I can openly admit had I focused more in undergrad, worked harder, and was smarter, I would be in medical school now, not pharmacy school. Alongside school I work part-time as a pharmacy tech; I don't think anyone needs 4 years of extra schooling to efficiently accomplish the daily duties of a pharmacist. If you work in retail you are a glorified Pez dispenser, and talk to insurance on the phones; if you work in a hospital you verify the Dr's orders on the computer, and talk to nurses on the phones. 80% of my class loves to walk around campus with their white coats on all day long even though our classes are out, and verbally stress (with underlying pride) about how our program is just as challenging as the medical students'. I find it pathetic that my classmates and professors cannot find satisfaction in the reality of being a pharmacist; it is not the same level as an MD. Everyone who has posted on this thread defending pharmacists as real doctors could be one of my delusional, stupider-than-a-medical-student, classmates. It's difficult to relate to people who can't see society, and their place in it, objectively. There's nothing wrong with being a garbage man, there's nothing wrong with being a pharmacist, and there's nothing wrong with being a Dr.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    No they're not...$150K is a shit load to you. Our top reps make $225K.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Pharmacist's hold the title DOCTOR. It is a FACT not a topic for discussion. They didn't bitch about having a lower title on threads because they realized this would do nothing. They went to legislature to accomplish it. They are obviously smart. Everyone visits a pharmacy at one point in their life, usually on a regular basis. Most people complaining about pharmacists holding a Dr. title are the same ones that would bitch about how horrible the pharmacy service would be if pharmacists weren't held to such a high standard. Pharmacists HELP you with your medications and the money you spend on them. Not all pharmacists are amazing perfectionists at their jobs. Duh. There's a thorn with every rose. If pharmacists make a lot of money and do nothing then why don't you become one??? Sounds like a dream job to me.
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I've never heard of obtaining an online PharmD degree? Can you specify what you are talking about? You must have at least 2 years of prerequisites which is very hard to accomplish. Most people finish them in about 3 years. Then you must be accepted into graduate school for the remaining 4 years. You may see it as free labor, but I see it as a learning experience and an opportunity for choosing the right pharmacy career. Also, there are many ways to get your tuition reduced. A pharmacist can decide to work for the government and get a large portion of school paid for. Pharmacists are well paid anyways and paying back loan money is not that detrimental. Residency is not required and most people who go into those programs would like to further their knowledge in areas like nuclear pharmacy or pediatric pharmacy. I personally do not wish to do a residency, but I see nothing wrong with learning more about something you are interested in and becoming bettered trained at your job.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Legislature? WTF are you talking about? It was the universities that ‘created’ the PharmD degree not the legislature. What people are arguing is that 25 years ago there were very few if any PharmD programs, and we all got along just fine. If anything as technology usurped a lot of the “expertise” pharmacists once needed, the degree should have been lessened not increased to a doctoral level. It is a “doctorate” level degree where a doctorate level education is unnecessary. There were no glaring gaps or weakness in the RPharm curriculums, nor was there some groundswell from patients or the medical community to bump the pharmacy programs to a ‘doctoral’ level. It was a money grab for universities to convert their pharmacy schools to a PharmD program in order to charge doctorate level tuitions and increase the time a student spends in school.

    Again you do not need a doctorate level degree to be an architect who designs skyscrapers but you need a doctorate level degree to count by fives and read a computer screen? Come on, use your common sense. High School aged tech’s do most of the work in a retail or hospital pharmacy and the PharmD oversees them, deals with payers, and does the obligatory ‘have you been on this medication before’ spiel.

    If a college wanted to they could create a PhD program for bus driving, but I’d think you would agree that it isn’t necessary, even though those people are responsible for people’s lives every day…
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    spot on
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Try $300k after options plus bonus
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I majored in Communications and a double Major in French. After the so called finding myself routine in Europe after a year and a half. I decided to apply to med school took MACT testing lessons , did better than average (but not great) got accepted at 2 U.S. schools, 4 years later finished and passed boards. Med school is like Law school , you do not have to be pre-Law or PreMed, you can have any degree to get in , even at top tier schools. Again I had no science background in my B.A. degree other than high school biology and chem and sucked at chem and sucked at calc.
    My point is that not only do PharmDs "have to" have a strong science background in upper chem , organic, along with CALC 2, Physic courses, and the usual bio and A&HP,( although not upper level science coursework) so do PAs, NPs and even Nurses, yet it was not required to become a doctor. Plus they get graded not Pass/Fail that would suck. Infact at our School of Medicine the average GPA was about 3.55 and for the COP was like 3.8. I actually would of not had the requirements to apply nor want to take all their chem prior and post, just not for me. I am sure some PharmDs would struggle in my program also. Some HCP are great sudents in any field , but many of us just gravitate to what we like best , and therefor do best at. I do beleive that Pharmacists are under appreciated and underpaid for many. I meaan wether it was 6 years or 8 years. Thats alot of time, money and free internship and rotations invested in atough curriculum for the money. But I imagine many went into it for other reasons. And I am sure that many could have gotten into med school if they wanted to (again I also think it may be because they are their own worst enemies due to their less abrupt nature to loudly complain and make some noise about it. Even nurses can get the attention of their admins with or without unions , as for us we have the most powerful association backing us (AMA). Why I am sometimes think many of our egos need to be put in check, its why a lot of us enjoy the higher compensations and fringes (especially later on). For the younger ones just hang with some med students and pharmd students , there is no doubt the ego grooming of the docs are way ahead. Not because of their knowledge potential because the arena is set. Symphony musician or rock star, then surgeons are divas and gods. We don't know what Obama care will bring yet but the AMA is constantly looking out, what can be said for the Pharmacists lobby? Toot your horn pharmacists. As far as diagnosing , prescribing and treating patients-- I don't think most pharmacists got into their profession to do that, although some can and do prescribe on thier own, PA's NPs, can so no big deal. I personally like the fact that they can't-it gives the system that checks and balance thing. And with all respect , no there are many times not caught by computers and not as simple as counting ( thats why techs can also do that part - and a good tech just like a good nurse is sometimes also underpaid and appreciated. The proble I see with some or many at least on this post, that reps and drug companies and MBAs, look at the value based on compensation. WE all got here or where we want to aspire by the help of those in many cases by those who were/are compensated less than we are. So if thats the only way you judge selfworth of yourself and fellow friends and family, I feel sorry for any of you. You will also be dissapointed - their is always someone smarter and richer and better lookin than you. We are all assistant vice presidents and we are all doctors ok. It doesn't matter unless I am your physician and you will know I am your physician. The rest are support people that may or may not be a "doctor of" or a nurse (LPN,CNA) etc. We could go back for the patients sake to I'm your physician, Dr. Candice or I am your pharmacist "Dr. David, or I am your Nurse, Nurse Michael. But anyone is a tool doc or pharm or dds or whatever to insist on being called Dr. My favorite are public school administrators and superintendants, who do not like it if you address them by Mr. or Ms. better yet their first name. You should also respect anyonne who doe sthere job well -especially if its one you would never want to do--be glad someone does. there are many CEOs that would never want to do what I or some docs or surgeons do nor see the attraction or actually repulsive no different than the janitor cleaning the bathroom. Some look down perhaps, but most are glad we do what we do. We just want to get paid more when we do it. We all know CafePharma is more for entertainment and a chance to just throw crap at each other for what ever fustrations or for the sake of yanking ones chain so sometimes you have to read between the lines. But there is always some sense of what is perceived but does not hold true for all individuals and to all extremes. We have the nerds, the jocks and rock stars , the burnouts and the what the hell are you even doing here groups and more - no matter how smart we think we are and how much money we have - it's high school all over again.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I majored in Communications and a double Major in French. After the so called finding myself routine in Europe after a year and a half. I decided to apply to med school took MACT testing lessons , did better than average (but not great) got accepted at 2 U.S. schools, 4 years later finished and passed boards. Med school is like Law school , you do not have to be pre-Law or PreMed, you can have any degree to get in , even at top tier schools. Again I had no science background in my B.A. degree other than high school biology and chem and sucked at chem and sucked at calc.
    My point is that not only do PharmDs "have to" have a strong science background in upper chem , organic, along with CALC 2, Physic courses, and the usual bio and A&HP,( although not upper level science coursework) so do PAs, NPs and even Nurses, yet it was not required to become a doctor. Plus they get graded not Pass/Fail that would suck. Infact at our School of Medicine the average GPA was about 3.55 and for the COP was like 3.8. I actually would of not had the requirements to apply nor want to take all their chem prior and post, just not for me. I am sure some PharmDs would struggle in my program also. Some HCP are great sudents in any field , but many of us just gravitate to what we like best , and therefor do best at. I do beleive that Pharmacists are under appreciated and underpaid for many. I meaan wether it was 6 years or 8 years. Thats alot of time, money and free internship and rotations invested in atough curriculum for the money. But I imagine many went into it for other reasons. And I am sure that many could have gotten into med school if they wanted to (again I also think it may be because they are their own worst enemies due to their less abrupt nature to loudly complain and make some noise about it. Even nurses can get the attention of their admins with or without unions , as for us we have the most powerful association backing us (AMA). Why I am sometimes think many of our egos need to be put in check, its why a lot of us enjoy the higher compensations and fringes (especially later on). For the younger ones just hang with some med students and pharmd students , there is no doubt the ego grooming of the docs are way ahead. Not because of their knowledge potential because the arena is set. Symphony musician or rock star, then surgeons are divas and gods. We don't know what Obama care will bring yet but the AMA is constantly looking out, what can be said for the Pharmacists lobby? Toot your horn pharmacists. As far as diagnosing , prescribing and treating patients-- I don't think most pharmacists got into their profession to do that, although some can and do prescribe on thier own, PA's NPs, can so no big deal. I personally like the fact that they can't-it gives the system that checks and balance thing. And with all respect , no there are many times not caught by computers and not as simple as counting ( thats why techs can also do that part - and a good tech just like a good nurse is sometimes also underpaid and appreciated. The proble I see with some or many at least on this post, that reps and drug companies and MBAs, look at the value based on compensation. WE all got here or where we want to aspire by the help of those in many cases by those who were/are compensated less than we are. So if thats the only way you judge selfworth of yourself and fellow friends and family, I feel sorry for any of you. You will also be dissapointed - their is always someone smarter and richer and better lookin than you. We are all assistant vice presidents and we are all doctors ok. It doesn't matter unless I am your physician and you will know I am your physician. The rest are support people that may or may not be a "doctor of" or a nurse (LPN,CNA) etc. We could go back for the patients sake to I'm your physician, Dr. Candice or I am your pharmacist "Dr. David, or I am your Nurse, Nurse Michael. But anyone is a tool doc or pharm or dds or whatever to insist on being called Dr. My favorite are public school administrators and superintendants, who do not like it if you address them by Mr. or Ms. better yet their first name. You should also respect anyonne who doe sthere job well -especially if its one you would never want to do--be glad someone does. there are many CEOs that would never want to do what I or some docs or surgeons do nor see the attraction or actually repulsive no different than the janitor cleaning the bathroom. Some look down perhaps, but most are glad we do what we do. We just want to get paid more when we do it. We all know CafePharma is more for entertainment and a chance to just throw crap at each other for what ever fustrations or for the sake of yanking ones chain so sometimes you have to read between the lines. But there is always some sense of what is perceived but does not hold true for all individuals and to all extremes. We have the nerds, the jocks and rock stars , the burnouts and the what the hell are you even doing here groups and more - no matter how smart we think we are and how much money we have - it's high school all over again.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Good post. It should be for venting but managers will try to identify people. They even pose as potential employees. I understand wanting to know your company culture but there is a lot more that goes on that I believe is harmful.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Does ask the Doctor Dave one person? He practices full time but yet still finds time to post lengthy relies to posters. Hmmm
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hahaha Dr.Perry Be this person, not impressesd ---she doesn't even have an undergradate degree.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    They are pharmacists!! Drugists. They fill prescriptions. They don't treat patients and cannot prescribe (like ARNPs and PAs). Please stop calling them doctors


    Umm, yes there are about 3,000 plus of us who can, and the number may grow. But treating patients are not a measure. I guarantee with all due respect many ARNPs and PAs would find it very difficult to handle the quantitative and chemistry aspects of the PharmD cirriculum, which was not required to become a Nurse > MSN/NP or PA. On the other hand I do respect their jobsas many pharmacists became pharmicists/PharmDs, not because they could not get in Med School but because they like Pharmacy and many don't like the Blood & Guts aspects of Patient Care. I personally didn't either at first , but after the Med dyadics and been in on surgeries and (albeit limited) live cadaviers, shots, IVs, therapeudicts ,etc., BPs, vitals, ECGs, not a big deal anymore. Some pharm board specialists like myself are getting more hands-on involved with patients not just med therapy. Yes some are just pills counters and some are very professional and good at it, and it's an important function to have someone knowlegable to double check it, over a computer, there are so many things and variables that a script can be dispensed wrong, wether it was the doctor's,NP or PA, mfgs confusion or pharm/pharmtech, patient informing properly, etc. Yes , there are jerks at every level and every profession. There are some NPs and PAs that I rather go to than some of the doctors I've been to. There were a few ( 2-3) Pharmacists in my PharmD program that perhaps I would think twice about, the rest were very professional. I personally was also an honors graduate in undergrad with a 3.93 and was courted by the Med school, and graduated as a RhoChi member in PharmD, 3.97. I also was a graduate TA in Medicinal Pharmacology and a preceptor, but while I think some of us are smart and knowledgable , I could careless if you call me doctor.
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Man, this topic will not die.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Bottom line: In the hospital setting, we are consultants to physicians. When a physician is stumped on how to treat a patient, he will call on the PharmD. Not a PhD , NP , PA or JD, but a PharmD. It only matters to us that physicians find us as an asset; who cares what the public thinks. I myself belong in treatment group with specialists (akin to the House show) where we round and treat difficult patients. My job is to develop an appropriate pharmacotherpeutic regimen. After I present my idea on how the patient should be treated, the specialists order the treatment. I believe that it took a long time to get physicians to trust PharmDs. We are here and our gig is awesome. BTW, when I present on Grand Rounds, yes, the physicians call me "Dr".
    So please, do not discount this new degree. Do yourself a favor.. google PharmD and see all the research that our fellow pharmds are doing. Like MDs , there are many types with that degree. Some poor saps like to use that degree to count pills and some of us work next to physicians ( not in front, or in back, but next ). It is your scientific aptitude that counts in this field.
    Also a nota bene : "Physician" is the title the State gives a person after a rudimentary test is passed. "Doctor" is a title given by the eductional institute.