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  #51  
Old 10-21-2005, 06:43 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

[ QUOTE ]
Wow...ya'll are pretty harsh on the dental community. As a dental hygienest (and hygiene instructor) I find this webisite to be somewhat disheartening. I am constantly striving to learn and teach all of the newest and latest means of treating the variety of oral conditions we are faced with everyday while you are busy bashing one another and my profession. Just like with any scientifically based profession there are advancements, updates, revisions, etc to previous ways of thinking. Dental and hygiene education is evolving with the advancements of science. Have a little respect for those who have not quite caught up yet and may not understand or appreciate the new technology. There is no need to generalize us as "lazy" or "apathetic" because the majority of us truly care about our patients and want to do what is best for them. As far as "selling" a product to a patient, there are several factors to consider....What did it take to get the patient into your chair? So many people are terrified of the dentist so a vist to one is no tlike a regular checkup with your MD. So, when these types of people (and belive me there are many) do make it to the chair, what is the expense? Many people do not have the financial means to treat their periodontal condition in the "ideal" fashion. This is why we have informed consent. The patient makes the choice after we have given them their options and the cost involved. With that we have to do the best we can to help them. I think you all have really missed the boat here....I think that providing your customers with good quality information and presenting that information professionally and pleasantly will get you farther than you think. Calling us names and challenging our intelligence doesn't strike me as the best sales technique. Many years ago I left the mortgage business to become an RDH, I hoped to get away from the "cut throat" mentality of that business. I am sad that I have found that same mentality on this site.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize we only call on dermatologists now, right?
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  #52  
Old 10-22-2005, 01:46 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow...ya'll are pretty harsh on the dental community. As a dental hygienest (and hygiene instructor) I find this webisite to be somewhat disheartening. I am constantly striving to learn and teach all of the newest and latest means of treating the variety of oral conditions we are faced with everyday while you are busy bashing one another and my profession. Just like with any scientifically based profession there are advancements, updates, revisions, etc to previous ways of thinking. Dental and hygiene education is evolving with the advancements of science. Have a little respect for those who have not quite caught up yet and may not understand or appreciate the new technology. There is no need to generalize us as "lazy" or "apathetic" because the majority of us truly care about our patients and want to do what is best for them. As far as "selling" a product to a patient, there are several factors to consider....What did it take to get the patient into your chair? So many people are terrified of the dentist so a vist to one is no tlike a regular checkup with your MD. So, when these types of people (and belive me there are many) do make it to the chair, what is the expense? Many people do not have the financial means to treat their periodontal condition in the "ideal" fashion. This is why we have informed consent. The patient makes the choice after we have given them their options and the cost involved. With that we have to do the best we can to help them. I think you all have really missed the boat here....I think that providing your customers with good quality information and presenting that information professionally and pleasantly will get you farther than you think. Calling us names and challenging our intelligence doesn't strike me as the best sales technique. Many years ago I left the mortgage business to become an RDH, I hoped to get away from the "cut throat" mentality of that business. I am sad that I have found that same mentality on this site.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am a former hygienist and former employee of CollaGenex. I was completely embarrassed by the vast majority of dentists and hygienists I used to call on. I estimate that 60-70% of them failed to properly diagnose and treat perio. Granted, many times the patient refuses treatment for the reasons you listed. However, many of these so called dental "professionals" had no clue how to put together an appropriate treatment plan for their patients. Discussions with hygienists about adjunctive therapies and overall perio treatmant plans were met with blank stares. The dental hygiene programs and dental schools are failing miserably to educate these people. Dentists and hygienists who graduated in years past do not keep up with new research. It is pathetic. CollaGenex is out of the dental field permanently. I am sure the company will be greatly missed by all of the organizations who cried for funds and then never wrote an rx or purchased any atridox. If you disagree with everyone on the board who questions the intelligence and professionalism of dentists and hygienists, why don't you tell us all you know about how Periostat treats periodontal disease? This is your chance to prove your intelligence to this board and all of the naysayers. Make it good.
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  #53  
Old 12-03-2005, 02:39 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

http://www.cafepharma.com/ubbthreads...ns/shocked.gif I sold to dentists when this product was owned by Block. I much prefer to call on physicians. But if you enjpoy your job, I think that is great.

Getting a dentist to buy, try and use your product consistantly is difficult!
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  #54  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:59 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

you are such losers I used to sell 45k per quarter in atridox. Dentists loved it and they love to see reps cuz there are so few dental reps.
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  #55  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:35 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Can we please stop with the dental posts already. We are a derm company - let's move on.
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  #56  
Old 09-11-2007, 04:44 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Rant Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I just came from my dentist, or should I say my former dentist. I was given 14 packets of Arestin. My understanding, from the Arestin site, is that each packet contains 1 milligram of Arestin. I was charged $60 per packet. It took the dentist about 5 minutes to place the packets. I assume that the dentist paid less than $60 per packet, and charged for his expertise in placing the packets.

Let's say that there are 453.7 grams per pound, times 1000 for milligrams gives about 453,700 milligrams per pound. At $50 per milligram (assuming the dentist charged $10 per placement, or $140 for 5 minutes of work), a pound of Arestin would be almost $23 million, and an ounce would be almost $1.5 million.

Pretty impressive. I think that I will watch "Sicko" again.
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  #57  
Old 09-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Party Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

you obviously spend to much time analyzing.... what does the starbucks coffee you drink actually cost that cost you $5? What does the Coke at your local 7-11 actually cost? Probably .5 cents and you pay 1.50...that's the way it works ......bend over and pay up!
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  #58  
Old 09-13-2007, 10:43 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Jester Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
you obviously spend to much time analyzing.... what does the starbucks coffee you drink actually cost that cost you $5? What does the Coke at your local 7-11 actually cost? Probably .5 cents and you pay 1.50...that's the way it works ......bend over and pay up!
What a stupid response.....you are a great advocate for gouging the patient and protecting your company ......idiot !
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  #59  
Old 09-15-2007, 01:03 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

First of all you're an idiot for paying that much for a dental proceedure without getting a second opinion. And secondly, WE DON'T SELL ARESTIN!! So go complain on the Orapharma site.
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  #60  
Old 06-08-2008, 10:43 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Grumble Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I am just personally shocked after paying $ 247 for teeth cleaning. This included $75 for arestin on 1 tooth. $25 for X ray to same tooth. And $45 for perio maintenance to place arestin in 2 pockets.


Why is this so expensive? Is nova caine that expensive? No. So whats the deal with arestin.

I am shocked!!!!!! Plus being talked to RUDELY *** by the dentist
is disgusting.


Arestin should be $20 a syringe with no extra cost to place in gums.


What a rip off................................


I'm just paying the Dentists Cadillac Car Payment and gas bill.
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  #61  
Old 06-13-2008, 12:54 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Angry Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Putty in their hands, you need the treatment, and paid...it's a shame this is how healthcare is ran in this country, gauge the patient and pamper the docs who care less...good luck, the dentist that treated you has already been out to some fancy dinner with some good looking rep, who ordered expensive wine to impress...it's such bull that the pharma companies can send folks to bribe the docs, THIS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL AND GOV'T CONTROLLED!!! CAN YOU IMAGINE IF WE WERE DOING THIS WITH OUR TAX GUYS...THEY SURE WOULD STEP IN THEN!!! I feel sorry for us all.
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  #62  
Old 06-13-2008, 02:17 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Unhappy Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

So, true. Forget the nice cars and paying for the dentist's gas bill...it's WAY more that that, see these guys attend conferences and meetings where reps are all over them, some literally. Besides that, if you have a good guy, he's being taken out for dinners during these conferences where CEO's and reps are stroking egos and supplying incentives, wine, dinner, free-bee's, exclusive tickets to events like company sponsored superbowl parties, or events at car dealerships, it's total BRIBARY...there's probably some legal loophole that allows this, or maybe just not publicized enough for it to be gov't controlled...however, patients suffer because docs/dentists are using products based on company relationships, not necessarily for the needs of the patient. There's always some new application or drug, but the docs only use those from the companies they know well - hell, some of them are freakin shareholders in these companies and are trying to drive the business too...what do we do?
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  #63  
Old 10-27-2009, 09:22 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Banghead Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I somehow stumbled onto this website after googling arestin usage. I'm a RDH, employed by corporate America. We have Arestin usage jammed down our throat on a daily basis to reach our higher than the sky goals. Orapharma reps always bring "The Devil's Advocate" movie to mind.
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  #64  
Old 10-28-2009, 07:28 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I don't think Collagenex exists anymore - so yeah I think arestin kicked its ass
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  #65  
Old 10-30-2009, 08:06 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Hey folks, neutral person here.

How much does a Tolmar rep make in salary and comission? Are you given a car allowance and expense accnt?


Same ? for the Arestin reps.

Thanks!!! :0)
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  #66  
Old 01-03-2010, 02:04 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
So, true. Forget the nice cars and paying for the dentist's gas bill...it's WAY more that that, see these guys attend conferences and meetings where reps are all over them, some literally. Besides that, if you have a good guy, he's being taken out for dinners during these conferences where CEO's and reps are stroking egos and supplying incentives, wine, dinner, free-bee's, exclusive tickets to events like company sponsored superbowl parties, or events at car dealerships, it's total BRIBARY...there's probably some legal loophole that allows this, or maybe just not publicized enough for it to be gov't controlled...however, patients suffer because docs/dentists are using products based on company relationships, not necessarily for the needs of the patient. There's always some new application or drug, but the docs only use those from the companies they know well - hell, some of them are freakin shareholders in these companies and are trying to drive the business too...what do we do?
Stumbled on this and it is hysterical!! Where do i sign up? Superbowl parties and free cars?? You have no clue dude...

There may be some big physician or multispecialty groups that swing enough weight to rate some minor perks - not nearly as big as most insurance and banking execs get - but most drug companies don't even send reps out to dentists because the market is so small. We have to PAY to attend seminars and continuing education. Most times several HUNDRED dollars per hour. You may get a discounted rate to buy at a seminar or convention but you usually must buy in large quantity.

As this thread says - most dentists are hard to sell anything to. Perhaps it's because when we add anything that insurance companies may not pay for, most patients think it should be free - talk about a conspiracy... Arestin is $20 per carpule if you buy at least 20 of them at a time and keep on the shelf until they expire. Otherwise I think they are about $30. Atridox is about $160 a vial. They require certification for the staff which you must pay your staff for - I have yet to find people that will work for free. You?? At the rate I pay my hygienists, the hours worked out to about $3,000. After all that, we charge $28 per site. WOW - I'm on my way to a used Kia after only 2,000 sites! Listen to the complaints even here - some lady is PO'd cause she paid 75 bucks for 3 sites of a drug that cost the dentist at least $60. Does that sound to you like some hidden gold mine worth millions?? No wonder collagenex is out of the business.

If you want to look for a conspiracy theory, ask yourself why the insurance industry vehemently opposes removing antitrust legislation or allowing interstate competition. Find out why they don't want a single payor system or even price negotiation. While your at it, try to figure out why GM recalled and crushed every EV1 electric car even though they were a huge success and instead bought Hummer. Could it be that at the same time, our government offers a max $4000 incentive for electric cars while offering up to a $100,000 tax break for trucks over 6,000 pounds??

If you find out whose giving away all the wine and throwing these great parties let me know.
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  #67  
Old 03-25-2011, 07:45 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Lol Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
you obviously spend to much time analyzing.... what does the starbucks coffee you drink actually cost that cost you $5? What does the Coke at your local 7-11 actually cost? Probably .5 cents and you pay 1.50...that's the way it works ......bend over and pay up!
But the coffe or the coke I buy when I want to, it does not cost me that much at one time purchase.
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  #68  
Old 09-07-2011, 07:55 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I also came upon this website looking for more info on Arestin. They said my husband has gum disease. they want me to pay $100 for ONE side of the mouth.. and that is just to put it in. That is not including the cost of the antibiotic. God only knows how much thats going to cost! This is a COMPLETE rip off! I work in a hospital and I see how doctors work. Oh a patient is dying from cancer.. lets just give the chemo to see what that does. Cha- Ching... thousands in his pocket when the patient is going to die NO MATTER WHAT! Is this going to help my husbands teeth? There is a great chance it will. I'm paying out the ass right now.. shit better work!
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  #69  
Old 09-08-2011, 10:50 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

First off- the HIGHEST price point for Arestin is $20 per site and depending on volume purchased may be as little as $13.50 a site. In addition, there is NO necessary training to place Arestin, it is MUCH easier than Atridox or Periochip! As a practicing DDS, I recommend every site a patient needs. If it's over $150 for the patient out of pocket, I ALWAYS write an Arestin prescription instead the patient simply pays their pharmacy co-pay an the pharmacy takes on the task of verifying benefits and filing for re-imbursment! Saves me and the patient a lot of money. If you're still running your practice by buying Arestin and re-selling it one site at a time, you're not treating ethically and you're not making smart business decisions either!!! Good luck to you and, God help your patients!
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  #70  
Old 09-23-2011, 11:01 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Jester Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Wow Post 69...you work in a hospital? Doing what, obviously nothing that allows you basic medical understanding. Antibiotics are free at any WalMart, Walgreens or dozens of other locations, and I you do purchase them, they will cost under $10. The antibiotic was prescribed because your husband has perio disease AND an active infection. Might want to stop complaining and take the dentist's advice before he loses his teeth...which WILL happen if probemSSSS are not addressed. As fas as Arestin is concerned, no you are not making your dentist's Cadilas payment but you are probably making the Orapharm reps Jaguar payment. The dentist's cost is right at $20 per site. If he needs his "entire side of the mouth done", I am assuming you meant a quadrant, that would be approx. 6 teeth at a cost of $16.66 each, cheaper than what the dr. is probably paying. Hope this help ;-)
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  #71  
Old 09-23-2011, 04:07 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
First off- the HIGHEST price point for Arestin is $20 per site and depending on volume purchased may be as little as $13.50 a site. In addition, there is NO necessary training to place Arestin, it is MUCH easier than Atridox or Periochip! As a practicing DDS, I recommend every site a patient needs. If it's over $150 for the patient out of pocket, I ALWAYS write an Arestin prescription instead the patient simply pays their pharmacy co-pay an the pharmacy takes on the task of verifying benefits and filing for re-imbursment! Saves me and the patient a lot of money. If you're still running your practice by buying Arestin and re-selling it one site at a time, you're not treating ethically and you're not making smart business decisions either!!! Good luck to you and, God help your patients!
Just a note of clarification: For the $20 per site that Arestin costs, you're buying 1mg of drug and every site your treat costs $20. It gets really expensive for patients and many don't or can't accept the treatment because of the cost. Atridox costs about $60 per syringe, but one syringe can treat up to 12 sites! My math tells me that works out to about $5 per site vs. $20 per site for Arestin! Additionally, one syringe of Atridox contains 50 mg of drug. Even if I treated 12 sites, I'd be delivering over 4mg of drug to each site. Atridox is less expensive (which is good for the patient too) and delivers more drug. Arestin costs $20/mg and Atridox costs $1.20/mg!! Seems like a no-brainer if the objective is cost-effective, quality care.

Oh and by the way, if you really take a look at the numbers related to submitting a prescription for Arestin (through their pharmacy program), the only two parties that lose are the dental office that elects to participate (lost profit) and the patient (must return for a 2nd Arestin placement visit). The whole program is a strategy by Arestin to make it appear to both the patient and the dentist that the Arestin treatment is inexpensive. However, the dentist that elects to participate in this program loses all of his/her former profit from dispensing Arestin and, from what I've heard, very few dentists charge, or are able to charge, placement fees (there's no insurance code for just placement). Additionally, the patient is inconvenienced because they are required to schedule a second visit to have the Arestin placed. If you take a comparitive look at profit for dentist, the Arestin pharmacy program ranks dead last, Atridox is the most profitable (and its low cost increases patient acceptance too). Stocking and dispensing Arestin falls in the middle on the dentist profit continuum.
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  #72  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:13 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin & Monarch Co. kicking your ASS?

Monarch of Plano (3516 Preston Rd # 600, Plano, TX) is also participating to rip off the customers in the name of Arestin treatment. The Dental Hygienist there has pushed me so much the last several visits to accept the treatment of this antibiotic. During my last visit this week she was very aggressive stating that I am risking to loose my teeth if she did not apply the Arestin treatment. Now I say, Stupid me, I agreed to it. They charged me $66 per each location, total of $132 for 2 locations. Now that I read the complaint posted by others for the $20 a pop, I realize that Monarch not only robbed me blind but they do not hesitate to screw me badly anytime they can. Hey everyone, Watch out when dealing with Monarch. What a rip-off Company it is. Don't ask about their profession, it is the lowest grade ever. I am mandated to go there by the dental insurance Co without any other options.
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  #73  
Old 05-13-2012, 10:17 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Bottom line as to why Arestin has kicked Atridox and Periochip's ass going on, I don't know, just about forever now. It it easier to use (unit dose), it works as well if not better in the delivery system design (it's not about the antibiotic), and OraPharma had a WAY better plan of attack and value to the dental market.

This fight was never a fight from the start. The only "competitor" Arestin really has is someone who is not using it yet.

If it didn't work, it would have died 10 years ago.
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  #74  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:32 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I just got treated twice with Arestin in the last 10 days... A total of 25 sites at $75/site. I have good hygiene. My gums are mostly 3s in pocket. My insurance covered $15 of the $75 per. I paid out of pocket 25 x $60 = $1500. I found this to be exorbitant, especially after doing more research. I asked if they can provide me a discount for the number of sites? None. This is in San Diego, CA. Is this ethical? What should I do?
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  #75  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:32 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
I just got treated twice with Arestin in the last 10 days... A total of 25 sites at $75/site. I have good hygiene. My gums are mostly 3s in pocket. My insurance covered $15 of the $75 per. I paid out of pocket 25 x $60 = $1500. I found this to be exorbitant, especially after doing more research. I asked if they can provide me a discount for the number of sites? None. This is in San Diego, CA. Is this ethical? What should I do?
Arestin is indicated for bleeding (indicates chronic infection) 5s and up. The price is kind of high as well.
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  #76  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:30 PM
Webmasterrdh
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I am a dental hygienist and always warn the patient that the insurance probably will NOT cover more than one or two sites of Arestin. MOST don't cover it at all from my experience, so I think it is unethical to lead a patient to believe insurance will cover it. Some patients have asked if its necessary. I say no, but I think it is beneficial. Mostly, if cost is an issue, I try without and usually patients heal just from removing the calculus and doing an irrigation with hydrogen peroxide. The most important instrument I have is the cavitron with a slim tip to clean and lavage deep in the pockets. The cost of the product itself is pretty high. Last I checked it was almost $20 for each one that the dentist pays and we do "lose" one once in a while...that is, we put it in and it doesn't stay in because it wasn't dry enough and then we eat the cost as we put in another one. I am very happy the dentist I work for now does not try to do that to patients. We are very honest about what your bill will be.
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  #77  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:48 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Wow. I don’t exactly recall just what I “Googled” in order to arrive here, but this has none the less been an amazingly educational read. Looks like the sales reps have pretty much petered out (so this may well be a waste of my time) and only a few patients have responded to this thread in recent years.

My story: My dentist & hygienists have been concerned about the depth of my pockets for a year or so – mostly 2 & 3’s, with several 4 & 5’s. They’ve warned about the possibility of needing scaling & root planning (SRP), or maybe even surgery, if things didn’t improve. So I’ve flossed & Waterpik’ed like crazy, but my pockets remain about the same – nothing more than 5 mm though. My hygienist & dentist are now strongly recommending SRP ($246/quad x 2 quads) and Arestin treatment for up to 10 teeth ($46/tooth for initial application). Will more treatments follow? No discussion of that yet.

The whole idea of squirting an antibiotic into a pocket infected with periodontal disease makes perfect sense to me – The problem is a persistent bacterial infection that flossing, Waterpik’ing, and toothpaste has a difficult time reaching or correcting, so why not get some antibacterial stuff put deep in there? It’s got to work, right?

So first I go to the Arestin website, which makes some rather impressive claims:
-- “Clinical studies show that ARESTIN® with SRP is up to 3x more effective than SRP alone.”
-- “Significantly reduces pocket depths.”

Then I find the Arestin studies which show that when the patient began with pocket-depths of 5+mm, the pocket improvement of SRP-alone averaged 1.18mm. With Arestin treatment added to the SRP procedure (with 3 treatments of Arestin, 3 months apart) and looking 9 months after SRP, the pocket improvement (Arestin+SRP over SRP alone) was just .24mm. The study showed that the deeper the initial pockets, the better the improvement with Arestin (starting with 6+mm pockets showed an average of .42mm improvement over SRP alone, and 7+mm pockets showed a .96mm improvement).

So, help me out here – Starting at a maximum of 5mm, is a .24mm pocket-reduction with RSP + Arestin over a 1.18mm pocket-reduction of RSP alone a significant improvement? How does the Arestin-claimed “3X more effective” or “Significantly reduces pocket depths” fit in here? I’m a patient, not a dental professional of course, but .24mm over 1.18mm, when starting with 5mm, does not sound like a significant improvement to me. Is it?

The professional sales reps on this thread (which initially were the bulk of replies) sound like a bunch of self-centered, greedy, disgruntled, corporate-ladder climbing, the-hell-with-the-patient, if I must trick/manipulate the dental community in order to get mine, so be it, mentality. The more rational, well spoken, and most rational thinking posters seemed to be of the dental hygienist/patient types. Imagine that!

So is this all it’s about? The medications that are most recommended/pushed by our dentists or doctors are basically only the ones that have been most effectively manipulate/pushed by their pharmaceutical sales reps? Seriously?

I’ve stuck with my current dentist for many years because initially he was better reviewed than most, and as time went on I felt he was much better than most other dentists I have dealt with. Now I have to question my choice.

Years ago, I lived next to a Pharmaceutical rep. His garage was so full of “gifts” to give away to doctors that he could not fit his car into his garage. At the time I thought it was all rather silly. Now I’m thinking that it was more criminal than silly. We people (the idiot patients that the sales reps refer to) rely on the medical/dental community for the supposed truths that might make our lives better, at “our” expense. It’s somewhat of a living hell to discover that my “expenses” have not so much been spent on significantly improving the “bettering of my health”, as it may have been for improving the profit margin of the pharma company and sales rep, as well as my dentist/doctor.

How do any of you sleep at night, knowing full and well that your absolute priority in life, and in your career, is primarily to benefit yourself and your employer, over the very customer you and your industry “claim” to be looking out for? Most everything I’ve read here has bragged about the genius and benefit of gusto/salesmanship over good old fashioned objective/logical/rational reasoning as to what might be best for that “idiot” patient, as well as how best to ultimately move cash from the patient’s wallet into your own.

It’s a sad state of affairs in my opinion. I’m a simple person. All I’m looking for is good health and good teeth. I’m more than willing to pay for it, if only it could be true. Unfortunately, I must keep my guard up, over those in the medical community that I regularly deal with for the supposed purpose of improving my health, to protect myself from ultimate greedy effects of the likes of you – big pharma and the sales-rep.

Don’t get me confused – I’m pretty much politically conservative. I’m all for business, free enterprise, salesmanship,.etc. But come on – I’ve always been under the impression that conservatism was primarily about taking the high road, with profits taking a close but obviously necessary second.

So please tell me, how far off from realty am I on all this?
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  #78  
Old 02-18-2013, 04:10 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Well said on the previous comment. I have read so much on Arestin/Antridox I no longer no whom to believe. Certainly not the reps. I just received an insurance quote, the ins charge is $980 for Arestin; my co-pay would be $240. This is for visit 1 of at least 2. You guys tell me, why should anyone waste their money on a .94mm at it's best improvement to the deep pocket? Seems like deep pockets are everywhere these days. Only thing is, mine are empty! After giving to the medical profession year after year...I am done!
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  #79  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:28 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Holy smokes! Like others in this sequence, I Googled Arestin, trying to deal with sticker shock. I have in my hand a "treatment plan" from the dentist indicating a whole lot of Arestin on essentially every one of my teeth, to total out of my pocket about $1400. (I don't happen to have $1400 handy in the cookie jar. Called the employer-provided dental insurance---what a joke. Tell me again why they call it dental insurance? Called Blue Cross, and after several long spells on hold, the final final answer was "not covered." Asked a dentist relative (not the one treating me). He said "XXXXing rip-off, run away." So, I have no idea if I need the stuff, or if it will help some, or if it might help a little, or if it is total garbage. Nor do I know if the huge fee is out of line, or how to get it in line. Excess dentist profit? What a dumb mess. Sure am glad I'm in the hands of an insurance company and trustworthy professionals! Maybe I ought to save that $1400 for dentures (or for the %$# veternarian). What I really think is that there are too many dentists (and drug reps), and they all want to live high above their natural modest place in the professional pecking order. Our local Nova University cranks out fresh new dentists like sausages. How else can they all drive beamers if they don't "drill" the patients?
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  #80  
Old 06-18-2013, 05:14 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

i was at the dentist's office today and i was told that i needed arestin on my top back left and right molars ( two deep pockets) they told me the insurance does not cover anything so it costs $ 950.00 they offered me to pay on credit with 0%. I said NO maybe in the future.
Today my co-payment for deep cleaning was $280.00 plus i need two crowns and the co-payment will be almost $800.00. How in the world am i supposed to pay for all this in 3 visits. They insisted that arestin is wonderful and is worth getting it. It is good that I'm googleing it first.
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  #81  
Old 08-10-2013, 09:36 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I am a Dental Hygienist, a few years in the field. If your dental office is saying you need Arestin in more than 3 teeth, I would ask if there is another option. Atridox, which does the same thing, comes in a syringe and is gel form. They syringe may cost $100 but it can stretch across the entire quad. Where as Arestin could cost up to $100 per site and there are 6 sites per tooth so $600 per tooth. Honestly, I do like Arestin but only for 1-3 sites in the entire mouth. Otherwise, I prefer Atridox. I have a hard time with the reps because both companies just bash the other. Atridox says they do so much better than Arestin and visa versa. They both do the same job.

I work in an office that I feel doesn't take advantage of patients. We don't use any type of localized antibiotic because the dentist doesn't know much about them. I was noticing though that some patients who had SRP (deep cleaning) were not healing in some areas, so I brought up the option of keeping Arestin in stock. It is true that SRP does not alone treat infected gums 100% but it is the first step. The next step is placing an antibiotic (Arestin or Atridox). I don't want to place them until I notice for several months that an area is not healing. Reps say that the antibiotics need to be placed during the SRP appt. I believe that is absolutely absurd and hygienists should wait to see how well the pockets have healed.
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  #82  
Old 08-16-2013, 07:17 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

To: Anonymous Hygienist...There is a new option for effective Perio treatment when indicated
Antibacterial tetracycline based, anticollagenase , binds to calcium for slow release, pleasant taste , preloaded disposable custom syringe system: Cost to dentist for total mouth is less than one tooth price of Arestin.
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  #83  
Old 11-02-2013, 12:28 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

I am retired and live in a retirement community. The dentist office that I went to wants to use Arestin on me and the quote for the procedure was $45.00 for each sight, and said I needed 6 doses. Hello, that is $270 on a fixed income. I live on Social Security. I don't have, nor probably would benefit that much from, dental insurance. Everyone screams about the cost of health care...no one has taken a look at the dental field...is there a reason why? I need a crown....and that estimate was $888. plus $238 more if it needs buildup...whatever that means. So, a total of $1126.00. That's more than I receive from Social Security a month. Just had my teeth cleaned....that was a wonderful $180. with x-rays. What a rip-off these offices are getting away with. Plus, there is no deduction if you pay cash and don't have insurance. Everyone knows they don't get what they charge insurance companies, but cash customers don't get any breaks.
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  #84  
Old 04-19-2014, 05:10 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Happened upon this board doing more research on Arestin (never heard of Atridox until now). I have had perio disease for over 15 yrs, pockets getting worse despite good dental hygiene, flossing, eight SRPs, osseo surgery, quarterly prophylaxis & regular debridements. None of these posts seem all that concerned with the consumer. Here's my slant: dental treatments have become ridiculously expensive, dental offices are very aggressive in persuading you to undergo these expensive procedures despite their lack of efficacy and no insurance I've had (several) - dental or medical - covers Arestin. A dentist in Del Mar quoted me $200/quadrant back in 2004. It is 10 years later and the most recent quote I received is the same price. Looking back at what I've spent already, dentures would have been less expensive and painful, because I'm still in the same bloody place I was 15 yrs ago despite all these treatments. I spoke with an Arestin rep after the sticker shock in 2004 who was quite knowledgeable and forthright about the whole situation. Dentists are charging huge multiples on the product and most who could potentially benefit from its application forego treatment because of the price.

I'm almost tempted to start shopping dentists by how much they charge for Arestin.

As for the post lamenting about the cost of veterinary services - ya, those costs have gone way beyond ridiculous. That's why I don't have a pet anymore.
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  #85  
Old 05-01-2014, 12:30 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Back in April I wrote about a person near and dear to me -- yes, my husband -- who needed two new crowns for $3,442. I published his experience in a post, Is Your Dentist Ripping You Off? Dentists howled in protest at the provocative headline, though most agreed with the content of the story.

Patients howled too, about the high cost of dental work, and the feeling that they've encountered dentists who don't have their best interests at heart. Here's a typical letter: "My wife saw a dentist who quoted her $750. Then halfway through the job, when she was numb and had a big hole in her mouth, he told her he misquoted the price and it was going to be $1,500. She could not exactly argue." Another reader wrote of going to two different dentists and getting two completely different opinions about what his mouth needs and when it needs it. Who do you trust?

I heard from people who work in dental labs that charge the dentists $125 for a high-end crown, so why the tenfold markup? One dentist in Grand Rapids, Michigan, offered to do my husband's work for him for $1,395, or 40% of what he was quoted by his guy. All we would have to do was get him from Pennsylvania to Grand Rapids. (We passed.) Another dentist criticized my "gummy smile." Others wrote of the hours of pro bono work they do and how that's never noticed.

Two dentists, Dr. M. in upstate New York and Dr. W. near Indianapolis, agreed to be interviewed. They spoke to me at length about why fees are what they are. Here's what I learned about why dental work is so expensive.

Dental care is not a commodity. It's not laundry detergent or breakfast cereal or wireless minutes. Dentistry is a professional service that's both art and a science. Yes, there are excellent dentists and not-so-great dentists. Often, you get what you pay for. Yet even great dentists have bad days. "I consider myself an awesome dentist," Dr. W. told me. "And I've had failures."

Overhead costs are huge. Anywhere from 60% to 80% of what a patient pays goes toward the expense of running a modern dental practice. Dentists pay for rent or mortgage payments on their office space, payroll for hygienists, office managers and receptionists, health insurance, taxes, supplies, business insurance and technology -- just to name a few. "A lot of people would be surprised to know how tight the profit margins are," Dr. W. says. And many dentists are still paying student loans from dental school.

Labs differ in the quality of the products they produce. We all want our dentists to be using high-quality labs for things like crowns and dentures. Should we have to ask about the labs? No. We should trust our dentists to select a good one. "In my view, you always want to use a good lab," Dr. M. said, "because if the crown breaks, I'm the one stuck redoing the thing for another hour and a half for free. It's important to make sure I'm putting good stuff in people's mouths, because the last thing anyone wants to deal with is a redo. It doesn't make me look good, the patients get angry, insurance doesn't cover it, and it's a waste of time. You want to do a good job." Dr. M. has invested in a $100,000 machine that lets him make the crowns himself and cement them in one visit. He says patients love it and it allows him to control the process and do a better job. His fee, however, is higher than many in the area.

Insurance isn't really insurance. Dental insurance, the dentists told me, is nothing like health insurance or auto insurance. It's a maintenance plan that will cover cleanings and x-rays, maybe half the cost of a crown. It will not protect you if you need a lot of work done. The maximum annual benefits, $1,000 to $1,500, haven't changed in the 50 years since dental insurance became available. "It's a minor cost assistance, and there's a widening divide between patients' expectations of their dental insurance coverage and the actual coverage that's provided," says Dr. W.

Dental insurance drives docs nuts and they wish they didn't have to use it. "The number one most complicated aspect of running a dental office, bar none, is dealing with dental insurance. You wouldn't believe how long it takes to get through to a rep, make sure the patient does have benefits, calculate a copay," says Dr. M. And the largest insurance plans in the country discount most dentists' fees by 10% to 20%. If you're paying out of pocket, ask for a discount. (You might discover the dentist is giving you one already.)

Dentists wish patients would value their teeth more. Teeth are a crucial part of health and appearance. Untreated gum disease, for instance, is linked to heart disease. (Would you choose a cardiologist based on price?) "With time, you will come to realize that shopping price is a minor concern when it comes to your health," says Dr. W. "Any minor cost differences amortized out over a lifetime will become insignificant. You will get the best results and have the most long-term satisfaction getting care from someone you trust."






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Managing Health Care Costs


So if you're convinced dentists are worth their fees, how do you find a good one? The dentists had some suggestions:

Ask if he or she uses specialists. Who does your root canals? If the person on the phone says, "We do everything here, that would scare me," Dr. M. says. Especially orthodontia.
Ask your primary care physician which dentist she uses. Ask your lawyer. Ask your boss. In other words, ask professional people whom they trust with their mouths.
Ask a dental specialist, like an endodontist. One specialist wrote to tell me, "The best way to find a good dentist is to find a specialist who sees everyone's patients on a referral basis. He or she will know who is good and who isn't. Trust me, as a specialist, I know who is doing what, because I see their work every day."
If a dentist doesn't take insurance, because he or she doesn't need to, that will be a pretty good dentist. Those pros can book you for longer, and they don't have to work under the constraints of insurance companies. Be prepared to pay higher fees.
Look and look some more. Interview dentists, if they'll let you. Take the view that your teeth are a lifetime investment.
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  #86  
Old 07-05-2014, 01:56 AM
Periodyne
 
Posts: n/a
Arms Re: Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Hello,
I read your post and saw how much trouble you are having and would like to try and help.
There is a new product for gum health called Periodyne.
The cost from dentists is $250 to $350 depending on the clinic for a supply that lasts 4 to 6 months for most patients. I would like to offer you a free Periodyne kit. Please have your dentist call us at 1-888-GUM-HLTH or 1-888-486-4584 and mention this blog and a code I am making up, as we speak. Code: Blog15yearsDelMar
I am the president of the company and if someone asks they can refer back to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Happened upon this board doing more research on Arestin (never heard of Atridox until now). I have had perio disease for over 15 yrs, pockets getting worse despite good dental hygiene, flossing, eight SRPs, osseo surgery, quarterly prophylaxis & regular debridements. None of these posts seem all that concerned with the consumer. Here's my slant: dental treatments have become ridiculously expensive, dental offices are very aggressive in persuading you to undergo these expensive procedures despite their lack of efficacy and no insurance I've had (several) - dental or medical - covers Arestin. A dentist in Del Mar quoted me $200/quadrant back in 2004. It is 10 years later and the most recent quote I received is the same price. Looking back at what I've spent already, dentures would have been less expensive and painful, because I'm still in the same bloody place I was 15 yrs ago despite all these treatments. I spoke with an Arestin rep after the sticker shock in 2004 who was quite knowledgeable and forthright about the whole situation. Dentists are charging huge multiples on the product and most who could potentially benefit from its application forego treatment because of the price.

I'm almost tempted to start shopping dentists by how much they charge for Arestin.

As for the post lamenting about the cost of veterinary services - ya, those costs have gone way beyond ridiculous. That's why I don't have a pet anymore.
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