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  #51  
Old 06-01-2011, 07:50 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

LOL. A generic frontline now availabe at Walmart and CostCo. You people are all so clueless. Bayer is a chemical company, not a pharma company. If you think the folks in Germany didn't see this coming, you're crazy. If you didn't see this coming you're short sighted.

Considering how high your profit margins on Advantage/Advantix are (which I assume are the same for Merial) and that DVMs then marked it up 300%, OTC was inevitable. Wake up people, prior to Advantage people paid a few bucks for flea collars and sprays. How long did you expect them to tolerate your high prices and rediculous efforts to split hairs with obscure data to increase demand?

Perhaps if you had lowered prices before for DVMs and fought the volume battle in the clinic rather than in PetSmart, your products may have had a future.

PetArmor is the generic equivalent of the #1 flea/tick product for half the price sold in the world's largest retailer. Do you really think brand loyalty will save you in the face of a 50% cheaper product at an extremely convenient location?

The pipelines are dry. The DVMs soured. I'd find something else to sell if I were you.
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  #52  
Old 06-01-2011, 05:36 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

I am almost afraid to post, but, I am an office manager for a veterinary practice. I found this forum three years ago and have followed many threads with interest. (the forum comes up fairly high in many google searches, so I am certain that I am not then only non-rep lurking) However back to the question at hand about Bayer having differing price schedules for vets vrs. other pet supply outlets...absolutely true. Due to one of our veterinarian's affiliation with the local animal shelter (shelters, npo's also get advantageous pricing), the lay side rep accidentally called on the office with price list and program details in hand, then left them. When I tried to place an order I was told that vets can't get the advantageous pricing and programs. We now use as little of Bayer products as possible, which kills me, because we like them. We have always known that a markup of 30 - 35% was about what works in the long run. Overcharging will eventually get around the clientel and "bite you in the butt". At our practice we like to "shear the sheep" over and over rather than cut the sheep's throat once. (or treat your clients as partners in your business not adversaries)
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  #53  
Old 06-03-2011, 05:11 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Spot on again. I work with Ken Allen and the OTC team here is the standard contract pricing to Pet Specialty. Peter Ryan has authorized us to offer the following. 5% off list, 2% early pay, 2.5% carrying and displaying all 4 epa sku's, 5% trade/co-op funds. As far as returns we can accept up to 2% of what has been purchased per quarter, no questions asked, nor do they have to ship them back. The reason why I am coming forward is that I, as a Bayer team member see the division that is being fostered between not only our pet specialty and vet accounts but reps as well. We are being incentivized to take business away from our peers on the vet side and being given tools that by far surpass what Peter is giving Kirk and his team. The long term effect of this is clear as far our relationships with vets. I truly believe Peter knows this but does not care as he obviously is comfortable that even with the alienation of vets he will grow the brands with the pet specialty. So he clearly has no hope or nead for Multi and the other vet only brands we have as well.
This is fact. Look At Petcos online prices for starters or ask your Bayer rep to tell the truth
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  #54  
Old 06-03-2011, 05:12 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
How are we supposed to respond to our veterinary accounts when they ask us why Fosters and Smith and many other web sites now have Advantage and K9 Advantix for sale for for literally 2-3$'s per card more than vet list? Is it true that our OTC partners are getting pricing that is truly better than our vets whom we have had long standing relationships with are getting? Obviously we will not be able to hit our goals because our peers on the pet specialty side are literally ripping the vet channel away from us. I feel like such a loser when vets ask these questions. Actually most vets are not even asking. They are refusing to see me and have dumped our products for others they admit they would rather not have been forced to carry. They do not want anything to do with the Advantage brand at this point. Our products are in Walmart, Costco and anywhere else our now newfound pet specialty partners can divert them to. At least when they were diverted through the vet channel it was obvious which accounts were doing so. Our channel is so wide open that we have completely eliminated the margins and fostered a brand that leaves little room for profit by all those associated with it except Bayer. We all know that this is the end game for Bayer and now that we have chosen this path there is no turning back. We can kiss Multi and our vet brands goodbye. I and for one am job hunting even if it means Merial!
I can hardly wait until our next regional meeting
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  #55  
Old 06-10-2011, 03:24 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

I am not sure what to make of this thread. It sure has some great points but does anyone really think we would sell to the Pet Specialty market at better prices than we sell to the Vets? Should we be upfront with Vets and tell them this is so? If we do that why do we tell them this is our new policy? I just noticed that Fiprogaurd is Petsmarts featured new product. So much for ours being the one they push. Maybe we will reduce the price even further to them to incentivise them to make ours more attractive to customers?
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  #56  
Old 06-10-2011, 03:52 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

we do not care about vets. they do not care about us. move on.
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  #57  
Old 06-14-2011, 03:29 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Lie to the Vets and tell them that we sell through Pet Specialty at exactly the same price for the same volumes. Follow our leaders we will all be fine.
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  #58  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:51 PM
Anonymous
 
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Arms Re: a new era

The best thread on CF ever!
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  #59  
Old 06-16-2011, 03:49 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

[quote=Anonymous;3961899]I do not understand why we are willing to sell to Pet Specialty for less $'s than we sell to our Vets

Take a class in economics douchebag
Read a bance sheet
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  #60  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:09 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Banghead Re: a new era

Does our leadership have any integrity? I feel like we are being told to throw stones from a glass house. The bulls and the bears get theirs and the pigs get nothing!
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  #61  
Old 06-25-2011, 12:06 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: a new era

wow?
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  #62  
Old 06-28-2011, 09:59 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Argue Re: a new era

All AHC's please watch what you ask for we have a good gig here ..for now,I have my VTS sell to my Vets, I get to ranch 3 days a week and meet my numbers, my RM stays home (that's what he does best) my team members get to take and pick up their kids everyday (in the company SUV), go fishing and take care of their yards and plants, be a stay home daddy...we don't have it bad! But, I agree with all of you, those in Shawnee are going to screw this up while screwing the vets first then us! Off to make my dialing for dollars...lol
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  #63  
Old 07-03-2011, 12:40 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

We all should just stay quite, hang on tight and ride this out. Things always change and the drivers are the ones who get taken away. We are just passengers on a failing mission. I had a Vet tell me this week that they are doing everything they can to make sure Multi will never be the choice broad spectrum product in their hospital group. The encouraging thing is that they promised to give me a good reference with Pfizer, Elanco, Novartis, or Merial. They understand that this ride I am on is out of my control and while they will support any Advantage brands they will support me wherever I land in the future!
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  #64  
Old 07-03-2011, 12:41 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

will no longer support any advantage family brands
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  #65  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:51 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post

But the corporate charade is over. I thank Bayer for that. I've moved on...fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... well you know.
No I don't know? This is the accurate saying - "Fool me once, shame on you.....fool me twice, shame on me". Meaning, if you're dumb enough to get fooled twice....it's your own fault.

Maybe that's your problem doc. You're just gulliable. Not all drug companies are scumbags. Merial and Bayer are though.
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  #66  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:12 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

I wish I worked for Merial right now. At least Vets will still buy from them.
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  #67  
Old 07-19-2011, 07:40 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Why do we need to sell to WalMart and Costco we already sell to any pet retailer? Have the Vets totally stopped purchasing?
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  #68  
Old 07-25-2011, 10:42 AM
horse dr horse dr is offline
cafepharma newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Default Re: a new era

Corporate accountants have not idea of the memory of the veterinary profession.
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  #69  
Old 07-26-2011, 01:22 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Rant Re: a new era

I now have my old distributors swapping out our Advantage family products for Comfortis, Frontline, or Trifexis. We have made this way too easy. Pissed off the distribution and the Vets at the same time. My competitors best friend is Bayer right now.
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  #70  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:35 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

exactly what I am experiencing in my territory. how are our retail partners selling for less than vet list?
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  #71  
Old 08-12-2011, 02:07 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

This thread is too interesting to get buried. Has anyone read from the beginning? Bayer really does not care about its reps or vet accounts. Peter, would you care to comment, truthfully?
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  #72  
Old 08-13-2011, 10:59 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Get over it and move on you whining little children! Welcome to the real world. Sorry corporate America can't coddle you for your entire professional careers. If you are still dwelling on the actions taken by Bayer, I feel sorry for you and your practice.
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  #73  
Old 08-18-2011, 06:47 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

OK, but why do we sell to Pet Specialty at a better price than we offer our Vets?
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  #74  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:33 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Get over it and move on you whining little children! Welcome to the real world. Sorry corporate America can't coddle you for your entire professional careers. If you are still dwelling on the actions taken by Bayer, I feel sorry for you and your practice.
Well put. And the reason they sell to big stores at a cheaper price is because of volume. What kind of moron can't understand that?
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  #75  
Old 08-23-2011, 12:02 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Wow. Sure would want to support this brand.
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  #76  
Old 08-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

For hire: Two area business area business directors.
Requirements:
yes men or women to oversee disgruntled sales force.
No previous animal health experience a must.
Prefer non English speaking candidates.
Must be a good liar.
Background ground in toothpaste market a plus or shaving cream.
Ability to look busy by holding pointless meetings.
Understand LIFE-Like I Forsee Exsodus
Did I mention no previous knowledge of animal health.
Must be able to start before our national meeting in beautiful Kansas City, one of the many perks of the job.
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  #77  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:52 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

like has been said. "new Era"
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  #78  
Old 09-04-2011, 11:24 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

how will Q3 finish up?
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  #79  
Old 09-16-2011, 11:32 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Bayer rep not welcome in my practice anymore and I sell minimal amount of product (a little Drontal and Profender).
Merial rep is welcome (is nice and agrees with me about the company), but I don't buy from Merial as well.
Crapped on by Bayer and Merial, that was your mgmnts choice. All I can do is clean myself up and decide where to spend my $ and what to educate my clients about and where to direct them.
I feel sorry for the reps. I don't know what mgmnt was thinking. Maybe the next generation of vets will forget. I won't.
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  #80  
Old 09-21-2011, 04:44 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Arms Re: a new era

this was worth the time it took to read the whole thread
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  #81  
Old 10-03-2011, 05:29 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Banghead Re: a new era

No one from Bayer seems to get it, veterinarians are what made Advantage Successful, i.e. paying your salaries, now its everywhere, over time it will be missused more and more and be another Hartz, the top execs at Bayer made a quick profit but in the long run will cause all the Bayer reps to lose their jobs. I refuse to carry any Bayer product and know Webster will not sell bayer. Bayer will NEVER make another penny off of me, its no ones fault but their own. If Bayer wanted Advantage OTC let it be diverted through the Vets they deserve a little profit. What happen to looking out for your true customers.
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  #82  
Old 01-09-2012, 07:01 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

It has come to my attention that Vetsource has just signed a deal to provide the pharmacy filling for WagRx/Amazon.com

How do I get manufacturer contracts to buy direct and 10-20% under vet list costs and then turn around to sell to Amazon.com and it's owned entities?

Good job Bayer


The dynamics of Bayer
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  #83  
Old 01-09-2012, 07:03 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Banghead Re: a new era

And the dynamics continue.......
It has come to my attention that Vetsource has just signed a deal to provide the pharmacy filling for WagRx/Amazon.com

How do I get manufacturer contracts to buy direct and 10-20% under vet list costs and then turn around to sell to Amazon.com and it's owned entities?

Good job Bayer

Did we expect anything less?
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  #84  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:38 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Were all of the people we laid off this week from the vet side or the pet specialty side?
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  #85  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:47 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

This mornings meeting should answer a lot of questions. I can't wait to see the spin we get on the direction we are now going.
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  #86  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:08 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Peter, didn't we tell you this was going to happen? Ken A the clock is ticking.
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  #87  
Old 01-17-2012, 09:25 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Did KSW survive the plunder? What about GL?
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  #88  
Old 01-24-2012, 03:31 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

I heard that Dan P and Ken A are next to go. They should apply at Hartz!
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  #89  
Old 02-01-2012, 12:49 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Q1 2012 is really starting to show us what we have done to our Vet channel and brand. I never expected it to be this bad for us. Good thing we still have jobs though.
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  #90  
Old 02-12-2012, 09:05 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

horrible start. even with all the changes we still are losing vet accounts faster than novartis.
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  #91  
Old 02-20-2012, 07:19 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

What are we supposed to be telling our Vet accounts right now? I feel like we are just out here not even doing damage control rather just hoping something will change the climate.
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  #92  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:35 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
What are we supposed to be telling our Vet accounts right now? I feel like we are just out here not even doing damage control rather just hoping something will change the climate.
What damage control can you do? Bayer sold us out. I use a bit of Profender and Drontal in my hospital, no other Bayer products. I've asked the Bayer rep not to return. To me, Bayer = Hartz. We are successfully weaning all our clients to Revolution (cats) and Comfortis/Trifexis (dogs).

Not saying I wouldn't do the same in Bayer's situation, they obviously decided they'd make more money taking the entire product line OTC than staying with the veterinary market. Time will tell if it was a wise move or if they Netflixed themselves.
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  #93  
Old 04-26-2012, 01:42 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

I love this thread. When rereading from the beginning it sure says alot about where and why we are where we are today
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  #94  
Old 04-26-2012, 01:45 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Agreed. Pretty cool that we can see how our Legacy came to be over the past 12 months. The first post was almost axactly one year ago. I wonder what the next "era" will bring?
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  #95  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:12 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
this is taken from a recent posting on the Merial board.....

Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm a veterinarian and in my more than 30 years in practice I have watched the flea control market evolve. Most of my clients use Frontline Plus, and most of those purchase it from me. But that is changing and is getting ready to turn upside down. I can compete with the pet stores, they charge $20 per dose. We price ours a little below PetMeds both in hospital and through our web store. Costco is problematic, they are satisfied with a 4% margin, difficult to compete with that. But most clients understand that we can't compete with Costco. The real nail in the coffin will be a generic equivalent available in stores at a lower cost than I can purchase the brand name from the manufacturer.

Unlike some of my colleagues I don't blame Merial. As long as it isn't illegal, EPA products are going to go otc. No way to stop it. No amount of tracking will stop it. It's the nature of the beast. It doesn't really matter to me if it is diverted or sold directly to the store. The effect on my practice is the same. The only company that has been disingenuous about it was Bayer. I called them a few weeks before they went public about selling their products direct to the pet stores and was told it was to "get a handle on the diversion problem." That's like screwing someone to get a handle on the pregnancy problem.

In the short term I think veterinarians need to stick with FDA products and let the pet stores fight over the EPA market. Would I be interested in yet another EPA product like Vectra? No thanks. Reminds me of Hill's who has brought out several "veterinary exclusive" wellness pet foods. If sales don't boom they discontinue it, if we successfully build a market for the product they take it otc and sell it to pet stores at a price not available to veterinarians. I'm not interested in playing that game.

Ultimately I think dispensing will be taken away from veterinarians altogether. I remember when many MD's had their own little pharmacy in their office, one stop shopping. The auto shop that did state inspections also did the repairs. No more, gone because of the perceived conflict of interest. Reminds me of a comment made to me by a retiring veterinarian on my first day on the job, only half in jest, "If you don't have the drugs to treat what you've diagnosed, diagnose something you do have the drugs to treat."
This person must have a crystal ball. Nice call!
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  #96  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:12 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

this is one of the best threads EVER on cafe pharma.
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  #97  
Old 08-06-2012, 05:58 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
This person must have a crystal ball. Nice call!
Thanks. A little followup, 1/1/2012-7/31/2012 our inhouse sales of flea products breaks down as follows:

55% Comfortis/Trifexis
45% Frontline Plus

I'm surprised at how quickly Comfortis/Trifexis has become our #1 flea product. We will continue to stick with FDA products as our mainstay, will carry a little of the EPA products for client convenience at a below Petmeds prices.
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  #98  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:13 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

Interesting. But not really. Multi is soooo incredibly down at our clinic this year that we have decided to stop stocking it altogether. And if we want to match the pet retailers price on Advantage and K9 we literally only will make 1-3$ per card sold. Does not make sense cash flow wise to stock anymore
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  #99  
Old 01-16-2013, 01:07 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Arms Re: a new era

We too are shocked at how easy it was to stop carrying ANY of the Advantage family of products. We are slowly scaling back on Frontline as well. We to will be focusing on FDA products and definitely will not be supporting any brand that has an direct otc presence. The killer for Bayer and Vets is that Bayer sells its products to otc channels at a better price than to us Vets!!
BTW, this thread has kept me occupied reading for the past 30 mins....
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  #100  
Old 02-04-2013, 11:01 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: a new era

now we are discontinuing Rescue just like we dropped the dog food line a few years back? Why do we even pretend to be a friend to the Vet business? Dan P, you should really answer this one.
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