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  #151  
Old 07-20-2011, 01:21 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Do you feel better now that you have posted the same thing multiple times?

Your OCD really needs treated.
No, your "I AM a doctor, I AM a doctor, I AM a doctor" issues need to be treated. You're a loser.
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  #152  
Old 07-22-2011, 11:54 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Hmmmm. Has anyone ever heard of an online program available for obtaining an MD or PhD degree? I didn't think so. It is the online PharmD program (not to mention this is now an entry level degree) that bastardized the pharmacy profession. Today, the PharmD degree is nothing more than an inflated BS in pharmacy degree, an extra year or so of providing free labor in the form of clinical rotations at hospitals, PBMs, and pharma co's. It's a slick money making racket masterminded by those running the educational system. Think about it, the PharmD student is actually paying the school tuition to work during these rotations and then those intriguing resident and fellowship programs made available after 6 or 7 didactic years are merely providing cheap labor alternatives to those co's offering such programs. And the irony is that a majority of these PharmD graduates who participate in resident and fellowship programs wind up working in the very same retail pharmacy chains or basement/dungeon hospital pharmacies formerly run by RPhs with 5-year BS in pharmacy degrees.
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  #153  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:33 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

They are pharmacists!! Drugists. They fill prescriptions. They don't treat patients and cannot prescribe (like ARNPs and PAs). Please stop calling them doctors.
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  #154  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:18 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Lol Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
No, your "I AM a doctor, I AM a doctor, I AM a doctor" issues need to be treated. You're a loser.
When did I ever call myself "Doctor"?

You are the one who keeps whining about pharmacists being called "Doctor". If they earned the degree, why not call them that?

Get over your small penis issues already - and move out of your mommy's basement.
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  #155  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:33 PM
Anonymous Tech
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

I am currently a Pharmacy Tech. working for Target. We are extremely busy and over worked and underpaid, just like the Pharmacists. They go to school for years so they can make sure your MD is not killing you with overdosing on the combo of pain meds or that the meds will interact and kill you or that Bupropion SR is BID not QD, such a common mistake or that you can't take more than 8 endocet's in 24hrs. You must get your PharmD now b/c of so much patient counseling. We are treated like MD's, guests/patients come up and ask what to take when they are sick or how this med with effect them in certain situations. There are so many times we have to call MDs to tell them to switch a med b/c they wrote the Rx wrong or that it the drug does not exist in that strength or that hrmmmm you cant split Pristiq b/c is extended release but I guess b/c it does not say ER or XL on the bottle they just didn't know that. They are real Drs. They bust their ass through school, retail is very diff. from hospital. My dad supervises the pharmacy of one of the most well known Hospitals in D.C. Also, some states do allow PharmD's to prescribe and to change drugs of the same class when seen fit. The future shows that more pressure will be put on Techs, which Pharmacists are counselling pts and medication management and drug therapy monitoring are paving the way for community pharmacy. Why go to the Dr. and pay a Co-pay when you can go to the Pharmacy counter and get sound medical advice. I can't wait to start pharmacy school and yes I want to work retail, but not b/c of the money but b/c of what I do every day now and I see how much we help pts. We are all in health care, shouldn't we stand united and respect one another for their contribution to the bettering and wellness of our pts?
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  #156  
Old 08-09-2011, 02:42 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Tech View Post
I am currently a Pharmacy Tech. working for Target. We are extremely busy and over worked and underpaid, just like the Pharmacists. They go to school for years so they can make sure your MD is not killing you with overdosing on the combo of pain meds or that the meds will interact and kill you or that Bupropion SR is BID not QD, such a common mistake or that you can't take more than 8 endocet's in 24hrs. You must get your PharmD now b/c of so much patient counseling. We are treated like MD's, guests/patients come up and ask what to take when they are sick or how this med with effect them in certain situations. There are so many times we have to call MDs to tell them to switch a med b/c they wrote the Rx wrong or that it the drug does not exist in that strength or that hrmmmm you cant split Pristiq b/c is extended release but I guess b/c it does not say ER or XL on the bottle they just didn't know that. They are real Drs. They bust their ass through school, retail is very diff. from hospital. My dad supervises the pharmacy of one of the most well known Hospitals in D.C. Also, some states do allow PharmD's to prescribe and to change drugs of the same class when seen fit. The future shows that more pressure will be put on Techs, which Pharmacists are counselling pts and medication management and drug therapy monitoring are paving the way for community pharmacy. Why go to the Dr. and pay a Co-pay when you can go to the Pharmacy counter and get sound medical advice. I can't wait to start pharmacy school and yes I want to work retail, but not b/c of the money but b/c of what I do every day now and I see how much we help pts. We are all in health care, shouldn't we stand united and respect one another for their contribution to the bettering and wellness of our pts?
I don’t disagree with anything you said other than most AE/ DD interactions are caught on the computer. Also pharmacists are not licensed to diagnose or treat so there will be limitations to how involved they will actually be. The crux of this argument is historically the R. Pharmacist was never referred to as “Doctor”. Then the pharmacy schools got smart/greedy, and in the eyes of many, they unnecessarily made the pharmacy degree into a “doctoral” level degree. Let me try to draw a comparison, in business school one can earn an doctorate of BA, but it is not all that necessary nor do they possess a much broader knowledge base than their MBA counterparts. So sure you have a “doctorate” degree but is it necessary or does it provide with a wider knowledge base? Probably not. Yes they may have earned a doctoral level degree but many feel that the term “doctor” should be reserved for the physician and in the academic settings a Phd.. All it does in confuse patients by pharmacists demanding themselves be called “doctor”. Like another person stated, lawyers earn a Juris Doctorate yet I know of no practicing lawyers you asked to be addressed as doctor. I get it, most of this is semantics but I do think there is a psychological aspect where pharmacists what to be viewed as being at the same “level” as their MD counterparts.
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  #157  
Old 08-16-2011, 11:41 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

boy, this topic wont die?
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  #158  
Old 09-01-2011, 05:05 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Arms Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Well this is common sense. someone goes through a doctor of medicine program and is called a doctor, or a doctor of philosophy and is called a doctor, so why can't a pharmacist be called a doctor after undertaking a doctor of pharmacy program. this is simple LOGIC. note: the prefix 'Dr' is not only associated with medicine.Only illiterates question credentials that have been obtained legally, and where is it written that the criteria to be called a Dr. is diagnosing and treating patients. Some of you are very narrow minded. please learn to embrace changes and new ideas. thank you all.
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  #159  
Old 09-05-2011, 01:08 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Well this is common sense. someone goes through a doctor of medicine program and is called a doctor, or a doctor of philosophy and is called a doctor, so why can't a pharmacist be called a doctor after undertaking a doctor of pharmacy program. this is simple LOGIC. note: the prefix 'Dr' is not only associated with medicine.Only illiterates question credentials that have been obtained legally, and where is it written that the criteria to be called a Dr. is diagnosing and treating patients. Some of you are very narrow minded. please learn to embrace changes and new ideas. thank you all.
Thank you so much!
Little pet peve, why are we calling MD's offices so much b/c they write for meds that are not appropriate, too expensive, or the dosing is so off they will kill a pt like on a simple Rx or Vicodin ? or they are surprised when we call back and get them to change it.
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  #160  
Old 09-07-2011, 01:18 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Well this is common sense. someone goes through a doctor of medicine program and is called a doctor, or a doctor of philosophy and is called a doctor, so why can't a pharmacist be called a doctor after undertaking a doctor of pharmacy program. this is simple LOGIC. note: the prefix 'Dr' is not only associated with medicine.Only illiterates question credentials that have been obtained legally, and where is it written that the criteria to be called a Dr. is diagnosing and treating patients. Some of you are very narrow minded. please learn to embrace changes and new ideas. thank you all.
Ok if it is "common sense" why then do we not call attorneys by "doctor" as they have earned a JD? Pharmacists historically were never called "doctor" and creating an unnecessary, bloated ciriculum does not make you any more a "doctor" than your R.Pharm predecessors. It was a money grab for pharmacy schools pushed by the pharmacist lobby groups to justify higher wages. The reason PharmD's want to be addressed as "doctor" is based on their insecurities of not getting into medical school. Make know mistake most pharmacy students in this country are kids who didn't get into medical school.
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  #161  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:31 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Ok if it is "common sense" why then do we not call attorneys by "doctor" as they have earned a JD? Pharmacists historically were never called "doctor" and creating an unnecessary, bloated ciriculum does not make you any more a "doctor" than your R.Pharm predecessors. It was a money grab for pharmacy schools pushed by the pharmacist lobby groups to justify higher wages. The reason PharmD's want to be addressed as "doctor" is based on their insecurities of not getting into medical school. Make know mistake most pharmacy students in this country are kids who didn't get into medical school.
Historically, lawyers in most European countries were addressed with the title of doctor, and countries outside of Europe have generally followed the practice of the European country which had policy influence through modernization or colonialization. The first university degrees, starting with the law school of the University of Bologna (or glossators) in the 11th century, were all law degrees and doctorates. Degrees in other fields were not granted until the 13th century, but the doctorate continued to be the only degree offered at many of the old universities up until the 20th century. As a result, in many of the southern European countries, including Portugal, Spain and Italy, lawyers have traditionally been addressed as “doctor,” a practice which was transferred to many countries in South America (as well as Macau in China)

TLDR: who gives a shit?
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  #162  
Old 10-07-2011, 01:04 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

PharmDs are making a shit load of money and are pretty much guaranteed a job. Who's the real winner?
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  #163  
Old 10-07-2011, 05:12 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

This entire thread is completely ridiculous. Pharmacists receive a doctorate degree. If they wish to utilize their titles, so be it. Of course, they shouldn't use it in a way which is misleading to the public. Personally, I'm really sick of arrogance in all fields. We all know that regardless of the professional school you attended, some are better and some are worse. And we've all had classmates who probably should not have made it through or even have been accepted, but they "knew the right people." That said, judge the individual (or even the school!), not the field.
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  #164  
Old 10-07-2011, 05:15 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Also, lawyers need to stop whining. We're never going to call you "doctor."
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  #165  
Old 10-07-2011, 05:24 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

I completely agree with this thread. PharmDs are pharmacists, not doctors. I can openly admit had I focused more in undergrad, worked harder, and was smarter, I would be in medical school now, not pharmacy school. Alongside school I work part-time as a pharmacy tech; I don't think anyone needs 4 years of extra schooling to efficiently accomplish the daily duties of a pharmacist. If you work in retail you are a glorified Pez dispenser, and talk to insurance on the phones; if you work in a hospital you verify the Dr's orders on the computer, and talk to nurses on the phones. 80% of my class loves to walk around campus with their white coats on all day long even though our classes are out, and verbally stress (with underlying pride) about how our program is just as challenging as the medical students'. I find it pathetic that my classmates and professors cannot find satisfaction in the reality of being a pharmacist; it is not the same level as an MD. Everyone who has posted on this thread defending pharmacists as real doctors could be one of my delusional, stupider-than-a-medical-student, classmates. It's difficult to relate to people who can't see society, and their place in it, objectively. There's nothing wrong with being a garbage man, there's nothing wrong with being a pharmacist, and there's nothing wrong with being a Dr.
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  #166  
Old 10-08-2011, 12:19 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
PharmDs are making a shit load of money and are pretty much guaranteed a job. Who's the real winner?
No they're not...$150K is a shit load to you. Our top reps make $225K.
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  #167  
Old 10-08-2011, 01:42 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Pharmacist's hold the title DOCTOR. It is a FACT not a topic for discussion. They didn't bitch about having a lower title on threads because they realized this would do nothing. They went to legislature to accomplish it. They are obviously smart. Everyone visits a pharmacy at one point in their life, usually on a regular basis. Most people complaining about pharmacists holding a Dr. title are the same ones that would bitch about how horrible the pharmacy service would be if pharmacists weren't held to such a high standard. Pharmacists HELP you with your medications and the money you spend on them. Not all pharmacists are amazing perfectionists at their jobs. Duh. There's a thorn with every rose. If pharmacists make a lot of money and do nothing then why don't you become one??? Sounds like a dream job to me.
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  #168  
Old 10-08-2011, 02:18 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Hmmmm. Has anyone ever heard of an online program available for obtaining an MD or PhD degree? I didn't think so. It is the online PharmD program (not to mention this is now an entry level degree) that bastardized the pharmacy profession. Today, the PharmD degree is nothing more than an inflated BS in pharmacy degree, an extra year or so of providing free labor in the form of clinical rotations at hospitals, PBMs, and pharma co's. It's a slick money making racket masterminded by those running the educational system. Think about it, the PharmD student is actually paying the school tuition to work during these rotations and then those intriguing resident and fellowship programs made available after 6 or 7 didactic years are merely providing cheap labor alternatives to those co's offering such programs. And the irony is that a majority of these PharmD graduates who participate in resident and fellowship programs wind up working in the very same retail pharmacy chains or basement/dungeon hospital pharmacies formerly run by RPhs with 5-year BS in pharmacy degrees.
I've never heard of obtaining an online PharmD degree? Can you specify what you are talking about? You must have at least 2 years of prerequisites which is very hard to accomplish. Most people finish them in about 3 years. Then you must be accepted into graduate school for the remaining 4 years. You may see it as free labor, but I see it as a learning experience and an opportunity for choosing the right pharmacy career. Also, there are many ways to get your tuition reduced. A pharmacist can decide to work for the government and get a large portion of school paid for. Pharmacists are well paid anyways and paying back loan money is not that detrimental. Residency is not required and most people who go into those programs would like to further their knowledge in areas like nuclear pharmacy or pediatric pharmacy. I personally do not wish to do a residency, but I see nothing wrong with learning more about something you are interested in and becoming bettered trained at your job.
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  #169  
Old 10-08-2011, 01:48 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Pharmacist's hold the title DOCTOR. It is a FACT not a topic for discussion. They didn't bitch about having a lower title on threads because they realized this would do nothing. They went to legislature to accomplish it. They are obviously smart. Everyone visits a pharmacy at one point in their life, usually on a regular basis. Most people complaining about pharmacists holding a Dr. title are the same ones that would bitch about how horrible the pharmacy service would be if pharmacists weren't held to such a high standard. Pharmacists HELP you with your medications and the money you spend on them. Not all pharmacists are amazing perfectionists at their jobs. Duh. There's a thorn with every rose. If pharmacists make a lot of money and do nothing then why don't you become one??? Sounds like a dream job to me.
Legislature? WTF are you talking about? It was the universities that ‘created’ the PharmD degree not the legislature. What people are arguing is that 25 years ago there were very few if any PharmD programs, and we all got along just fine. If anything as technology usurped a lot of the “expertise” pharmacists once needed, the degree should have been lessened not increased to a doctoral level. It is a “doctorate” level degree where a doctorate level education is unnecessary. There were no glaring gaps or weakness in the RPharm curriculums, nor was there some groundswell from patients or the medical community to bump the pharmacy programs to a ‘doctoral’ level. It was a money grab for universities to convert their pharmacy schools to a PharmD program in order to charge doctorate level tuitions and increase the time a student spends in school.

Again you do not need a doctorate level degree to be an architect who designs skyscrapers but you need a doctorate level degree to count by fives and read a computer screen? Come on, use your common sense. High School aged tech’s do most of the work in a retail or hospital pharmacy and the PharmD oversees them, deals with payers, and does the obligatory ‘have you been on this medication before’ spiel.

If a college wanted to they could create a PhD program for bus driving, but I’d think you would agree that it isn’t necessary, even though those people are responsible for people’s lives every day…
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  #170  
Old 10-26-2011, 03:15 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Legislature? WTF are you talking about? It was the universities that ‘created’ the PharmD degree not the legislature. What people are arguing is that 25 years ago there were very few if any PharmD programs, and we all got along just fine. If anything as technology usurped a lot of the “expertise” pharmacists once needed, the degree should have been lessened not increased to a doctoral level. It is a “doctorate” level degree where a doctorate level education is unnecessary. There were no glaring gaps or weakness in the RPharm curriculums, nor was there some groundswell from patients or the medical community to bump the pharmacy programs to a ‘doctoral’ level. It was a money grab for universities to convert their pharmacy schools to a PharmD program in order to charge doctorate level tuitions and increase the time a student spends in school.

Again you do not need a doctorate level degree to be an architect who designs skyscrapers but you need a doctorate level degree to count by fives and read a computer screen? Come on, use your common sense. High School aged tech’s do most of the work in a retail or hospital pharmacy and the PharmD oversees them, deals with payers, and does the obligatory ‘have you been on this medication before’ spiel.

If a college wanted to they could create a PhD program for bus driving, but I’d think you would agree that it isn’t necessary, even though those people are responsible for people’s lives every day…
spot on
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  #171  
Old 11-19-2011, 12:42 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
No they're not...$150K is a shit load to you. Our top reps make $225K.
Try $300k after options plus bonus
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  #172  
Old 01-31-2012, 12:37 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Argue Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

I majored in Communications and a double Major in French. After the so called finding myself routine in Europe after a year and a half. I decided to apply to med school took MACT testing lessons , did better than average (but not great) got accepted at 2 U.S. schools, 4 years later finished and passed boards. Med school is like Law school , you do not have to be pre-Law or PreMed, you can have any degree to get in , even at top tier schools. Again I had no science background in my B.A. degree other than high school biology and chem and sucked at chem and sucked at calc.
My point is that not only do PharmDs "have to" have a strong science background in upper chem , organic, along with CALC 2, Physic courses, and the usual bio and A&HP,( although not upper level science coursework) so do PAs, NPs and even Nurses, yet it was not required to become a doctor. Plus they get graded not Pass/Fail that would suck. Infact at our School of Medicine the average GPA was about 3.55 and for the COP was like 3.8. I actually would of not had the requirements to apply nor want to take all their chem prior and post, just not for me. I am sure some PharmDs would struggle in my program also. Some HCP are great sudents in any field , but many of us just gravitate to what we like best , and therefor do best at. I do beleive that Pharmacists are under appreciated and underpaid for many. I meaan wether it was 6 years or 8 years. Thats alot of time, money and free internship and rotations invested in atough curriculum for the money. But I imagine many went into it for other reasons. And I am sure that many could have gotten into med school if they wanted to (again I also think it may be because they are their own worst enemies due to their less abrupt nature to loudly complain and make some noise about it. Even nurses can get the attention of their admins with or without unions , as for us we have the most powerful association backing us (AMA). Why I am sometimes think many of our egos need to be put in check, its why a lot of us enjoy the higher compensations and fringes (especially later on). For the younger ones just hang with some med students and pharmd students , there is no doubt the ego grooming of the docs are way ahead. Not because of their knowledge potential because the arena is set. Symphony musician or rock star, then surgeons are divas and gods. We don't know what Obama care will bring yet but the AMA is constantly looking out, what can be said for the Pharmacists lobby? Toot your horn pharmacists. As far as diagnosing , prescribing and treating patients-- I don't think most pharmacists got into their profession to do that, although some can and do prescribe on thier own, PA's NPs, can so no big deal. I personally like the fact that they can't-it gives the system that checks and balance thing. And with all respect , no there are many times not caught by computers and not as simple as counting ( thats why techs can also do that part - and a good tech just like a good nurse is sometimes also underpaid and appreciated. The proble I see with some or many at least on this post, that reps and drug companies and MBAs, look at the value based on compensation. WE all got here or where we want to aspire by the help of those in many cases by those who were/are compensated less than we are. So if thats the only way you judge selfworth of yourself and fellow friends and family, I feel sorry for any of you. You will also be dissapointed - their is always someone smarter and richer and better lookin than you. We are all assistant vice presidents and we are all doctors ok. It doesn't matter unless I am your physician and you will know I am your physician. The rest are support people that may or may not be a "doctor of" or a nurse (LPN,CNA) etc. We could go back for the patients sake to I'm your physician, Dr. Candice or I am your pharmacist "Dr. David, or I am your Nurse, Nurse Michael. But anyone is a tool doc or pharm or dds or whatever to insist on being called Dr. My favorite are public school administrators and superintendants, who do not like it if you address them by Mr. or Ms. better yet their first name. You should also respect anyonne who doe sthere job well -especially if its one you would never want to do--be glad someone does. there are many CEOs that would never want to do what I or some docs or surgeons do nor see the attraction or actually repulsive no different than the janitor cleaning the bathroom. Some look down perhaps, but most are glad we do what we do. We just want to get paid more when we do it. We all know CafePharma is more for entertainment and a chance to just throw crap at each other for what ever fustrations or for the sake of yanking ones chain so sometimes you have to read between the lines. But there is always some sense of what is perceived but does not hold true for all individuals and to all extremes. We have the nerds, the jocks and rock stars , the burnouts and the what the hell are you even doing here groups and more - no matter how smart we think we are and how much money we have - it's high school all over again.
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  #173  
Old 01-31-2012, 12:47 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Argue Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

I majored in Communications and a double Major in French. After the so called finding myself routine in Europe after a year and a half. I decided to apply to med school took MACT testing lessons , did better than average (but not great) got accepted at 2 U.S. schools, 4 years later finished and passed boards. Med school is like Law school , you do not have to be pre-Law or PreMed, you can have any degree to get in , even at top tier schools. Again I had no science background in my B.A. degree other than high school biology and chem and sucked at chem and sucked at calc.
My point is that not only do PharmDs "have to" have a strong science background in upper chem , organic, along with CALC 2, Physic courses, and the usual bio and A&HP,( although not upper level science coursework) so do PAs, NPs and even Nurses, yet it was not required to become a doctor. Plus they get graded not Pass/Fail that would suck. Infact at our School of Medicine the average GPA was about 3.55 and for the COP was like 3.8. I actually would of not had the requirements to apply nor want to take all their chem prior and post, just not for me. I am sure some PharmDs would struggle in my program also. Some HCP are great sudents in any field , but many of us just gravitate to what we like best , and therefor do best at. I do beleive that Pharmacists are under appreciated and underpaid for many. I meaan wether it was 6 years or 8 years. Thats alot of time, money and free internship and rotations invested in atough curriculum for the money. But I imagine many went into it for other reasons. And I am sure that many could have gotten into med school if they wanted to (again I also think it may be because they are their own worst enemies due to their less abrupt nature to loudly complain and make some noise about it. Even nurses can get the attention of their admins with or without unions , as for us we have the most powerful association backing us (AMA). Why I am sometimes think many of our egos need to be put in check, its why a lot of us enjoy the higher compensations and fringes (especially later on). For the younger ones just hang with some med students and pharmd students , there is no doubt the ego grooming of the docs are way ahead. Not because of their knowledge potential because the arena is set. Symphony musician or rock star, then surgeons are divas and gods. We don't know what Obama care will bring yet but the AMA is constantly looking out, what can be said for the Pharmacists lobby? Toot your horn pharmacists. As far as diagnosing , prescribing and treating patients-- I don't think most pharmacists got into their profession to do that, although some can and do prescribe on thier own, PA's NPs, can so no big deal. I personally like the fact that they can't-it gives the system that checks and balance thing. And with all respect , no there are many times not caught by computers and not as simple as counting ( thats why techs can also do that part - and a good tech just like a good nurse is sometimes also underpaid and appreciated. The proble I see with some or many at least on this post, that reps and drug companies and MBAs, look at the value based on compensation. WE all got here or where we want to aspire by the help of those in many cases by those who were/are compensated less than we are. So if thats the only way you judge selfworth of yourself and fellow friends and family, I feel sorry for any of you. You will also be dissapointed - their is always someone smarter and richer and better lookin than you. We are all assistant vice presidents and we are all doctors ok. It doesn't matter unless I am your physician and you will know I am your physician. The rest are support people that may or may not be a "doctor of" or a nurse (LPN,CNA) etc. We could go back for the patients sake to I'm your physician, Dr. Candice or I am your pharmacist "Dr. David, or I am your Nurse, Nurse Michael. But anyone is a tool doc or pharm or dds or whatever to insist on being called Dr. My favorite are public school administrators and superintendants, who do not like it if you address them by Mr. or Ms. better yet their first name. You should also respect anyonne who doe sthere job well -especially if its one you would never want to do--be glad someone does. there are many CEOs that would never want to do what I or some docs or surgeons do nor see the attraction or actually repulsive no different than the janitor cleaning the bathroom. Some look down perhaps, but most are glad we do what we do. We just want to get paid more when we do it. We all know CafePharma is more for entertainment and a chance to just throw crap at each other for what ever fustrations or for the sake of yanking ones chain so sometimes you have to read between the lines. But there is always some sense of what is perceived but does not hold true for all individuals and to all extremes. We have the nerds, the jocks and rock stars , the burnouts and the what the hell are you even doing here groups and more - no matter how smart we think we are and how much money we have - it's high school all over again.
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  #174  
Old 01-31-2012, 07:57 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Post Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Good post. It should be for venting but managers will try to identify people. They even pose as potential employees. I understand wanting to know your company culture but there is a lot more that goes on that I believe is harmful.
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  #175  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:05 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Does ask the Doctor Dave one person? He practices full time but yet still finds time to post lengthy relies to posters. Hmmm
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  #176  
Old 02-02-2012, 05:24 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Be this lady

Pharm.D., M.D, MBA etc...

http://doctorsmakinghousecalls.com/a...hanie-l-perry/
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  #177  
Old 02-07-2012, 05:19 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Lol Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Hahaha Dr.Perry Be this person, not impressesd ---she doesn't even have an undergradate degree.
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  #178  
Old 02-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

They are pharmacists!! Drugists. They fill prescriptions. They don't treat patients and cannot prescribe (like ARNPs and PAs). Please stop calling them doctors


Umm, yes there are about 3,000 plus of us who can, and the number may grow. But treating patients are not a measure. I guarantee with all due respect many ARNPs and PAs would find it very difficult to handle the quantitative and chemistry aspects of the PharmD cirriculum, which was not required to become a Nurse > MSN/NP or PA. On the other hand I do respect their jobsas many pharmacists became pharmicists/PharmDs, not because they could not get in Med School but because they like Pharmacy and many don't like the Blood & Guts aspects of Patient Care. I personally didn't either at first , but after the Med dyadics and been in on surgeries and (albeit limited) live cadaviers, shots, IVs, therapeudicts ,etc., BPs, vitals, ECGs, not a big deal anymore. Some pharm board specialists like myself are getting more hands-on involved with patients not just med therapy. Yes some are just pills counters and some are very professional and good at it, and it's an important function to have someone knowlegable to double check it, over a computer, there are so many things and variables that a script can be dispensed wrong, wether it was the doctor's,NP or PA, mfgs confusion or pharm/pharmtech, patient informing properly, etc. Yes , there are jerks at every level and every profession. There are some NPs and PAs that I rather go to than some of the doctors I've been to. There were a few ( 2-3) Pharmacists in my PharmD program that perhaps I would think twice about, the rest were very professional. I personally was also an honors graduate in undergrad with a 3.93 and was courted by the Med school, and graduated as a RhoChi member in PharmD, 3.97. I also was a graduate TA in Medicinal Pharmacology and a preceptor, but while I think some of us are smart and knowledgable , I could careless if you call me doctor.
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  #179  
Old 02-18-2012, 11:49 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Man, this topic will not die.
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  #180  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:01 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b02jd...eature=related
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  #181  
Old 02-21-2012, 06:17 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Bottom line: In the hospital setting, we are consultants to physicians. When a physician is stumped on how to treat a patient, he will call on the PharmD. Not a PhD , NP , PA or JD, but a PharmD. It only matters to us that physicians find us as an asset; who cares what the public thinks. I myself belong in treatment group with specialists (akin to the House show) where we round and treat difficult patients. My job is to develop an appropriate pharmacotherpeutic regimen. After I present my idea on how the patient should be treated, the specialists order the treatment. I believe that it took a long time to get physicians to trust PharmDs. We are here and our gig is awesome. BTW, when I present on Grand Rounds, yes, the physicians call me "Dr".
So please, do not discount this new degree. Do yourself a favor.. google PharmD and see all the research that our fellow pharmds are doing. Like MDs , there are many types with that degree. Some poor saps like to use that degree to count pills and some of us work next to physicians ( not in front, or in back, but next ). It is your scientific aptitude that counts in this field.
Also a nota bene : "Physician" is the title the State gives a person after a rudimentary test is passed. "Doctor" is a title given by the eductional institute.
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  #182  
Old 02-22-2012, 12:05 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Bottom line: In the hospital setting, we are consultants to physicians. When a physician is stumped on how to treat a patient, he will call on the PharmD. Not a PhD , NP , PA or JD, but a PharmD. It only matters to us that physicians find us as an asset; who cares what the public thinks. I myself belong in treatment group with specialists (akin to the House show) where we round and treat difficult patients. My job is to develop an appropriate pharmacotherpeutic regimen. After I present my idea on how the patient should be treated, the specialists order the treatment. I believe that it took a long time to get physicians to trust PharmDs. We are here and our gig is awesome. BTW, when I present on Grand Rounds, yes, the physicians call me "Dr".
So please, do not discount this new degree. Do yourself a favor.. google PharmD and see all the research that our fellow pharmds are doing. Like MDs , there are many types with that degree. Some poor saps like to use that degree to count pills and some of us work next to physicians ( not in front, or in back, but next ). It is your scientific aptitude that counts in this field.
Also a nota bene : "Physician" is the title the State gives a person after a rudimentary test is passed. "Doctor" is a title given by the eductional institute.
‘When a physician is stumped on how to treat a patient, he will call on the PharmD’ That could not be more BS!!! The only plausible time that would happen is if there was a contraindication and he, rightfully so, seeked your council on an alternative drug that would not interfere with another drug.

BTW, when I present on Grand Rounds, yes, the physicians call me "Dr".
So please, do not discount this new degree. Big freaking deal. They do that because the PharmD’s lobbied for years once the RPharm curriculums moved to PharmD programs.

Grand Rounds? Who cares. Nurses present at grand rounds on AE management etc.


“Some poor saps like to use that degree to count pills and some of us work next to physicians ( not in front, or in back, but next ).”

“SOME” – Sorry try ‘MOST’ poor saps are counting pills not some. And those poor saps are not relegated to only retail most hospital and academic center pharmacists are pill counters or mixing drugs. The smallest percentage of pharmacists are researched based. Learn you facts before you use your N of 1 to describe and entire field.

“google PharmD and see all the research that our fellow pharmds are doing” Almost all of your ‘research’ is PK PD phase I or II. Less than 1% of pivitol phase III trials have PharmD’s as a lead author. You are the guy at the bottom of the list who did the PK/PD evaluation. BIG DEAL!

Again from the labor board and trade websites, the vast majority of R.Pharm and PharmD’s are in the retail setting(counting pills), second in the hospital or institution setting(counting pills), and a very small proportion are in the academic research setting.

Again the PharmD was a manufactured degrees as a money grab for pharmacy schools. No one in the medical community was screaming for something more that the RPharm education. BTW a tech and a computer do 95% of your job for you in retail and hospital setting. Have fun living in your inflated world.
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  #183  
Old 02-24-2012, 06:57 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
They are pharmacists!! Drugists. They fill prescriptions. They don't treat patients and cannot prescribe (like ARNPs and PAs). Please stop calling them doctors.
M, W, F, count pills by 2's, T, Th, Sat and Sun. , count by 5's. !!!
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  #184  
Old 03-01-2012, 12:30 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
‘When a physician is stumped on how to treat a patient, he will call on the PharmD’ That could not be more BS!!! The only plausible time that would happen is if there was a contraindication and he, rightfully so, seeked your council on an alternative drug that would not interfere with another drug.

BTW, when I present on Grand Rounds, yes, the physicians call me "Dr".
So please, do not discount this new degree. Big freaking deal. They do that because the PharmD’s lobbied for years once the RPharm curriculums moved to PharmD programs.

Grand Rounds? Who cares. Nurses present at grand rounds on AE management etc.


“Some poor saps like to use that degree to count pills and some of us work next to physicians ( not in front, or in back, but next ).”

“SOME” – Sorry try ‘MOST’ poor saps are counting pills not some. And those poor saps are not relegated to only retail most hospital and academic center pharmacists are pill counters or mixing drugs. The smallest percentage of pharmacists are researched based. Learn you facts before you use your N of 1 to describe and entire field.

“google PharmD and see all the research that our fellow pharmds are doing” Almost all of your ‘research’ is PK PD phase I or II. Less than 1% of pivitol phase III trials have PharmD’s as a lead author. You are the guy at the bottom of the list who did the PK/PD evaluation. BIG DEAL!

Again from the labor board and trade websites, the vast majority of R.Pharm and PharmD’s are in the retail setting(counting pills), second in the hospital or institution setting(counting pills), and a very small proportion are in the academic research setting.

Again the PharmD was a manufactured degrees as a money grab for pharmacy schools. No one in the medical community was screaming for something more that the RPharm education. BTW a tech and a computer do 95% of your job for you in retail and hospital setting. Have fun living in your inflated world.
Poor salesbot. Delivering samples and buying lunch too much for you?

See your psychiatrist to deal with your tiny penis issues.
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  #185  
Old 03-01-2012, 06:15 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Post Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
M, W, F, count pills by 2's, T, Th, Sat and Sun. , count by 5's. !!!
Favorite post of them all! Some of these PharmDs have an inflated sense of worth. They can't even write a prescription for amoxil. I love the posters ripping on PAs and NPs, even though we are the ones writing the scripts that they fill.
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  #186  
Old 03-01-2012, 05:50 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Poor salesbot. Delivering samples and buying lunch too much for you?

See your psychiatrist to deal with your tiny penis issues.
Sales bot…funny. Let’s see, I sell targeted and chemo agents for cancer, never sampled a drug in my life and I could talk circles around you, and 95% of the PharmD’s out there in terms of cancer and cancer treatments. Most of the time it is the tenured oncology reps that have to show the PharmD MSL the ropes in oncology as your ‘Phd’ level education really only teaches you classes of drugs at a macro level leaving you with very little functional knowledge. In the class of drugs that is the most toxic, oncologics, the PharmD has virtually no impact, knowledge, or use, as infusion nurses mix most chemos day in and day out. Sure you can tell a doc what antibiotic shouldn’t be used with which statin…Wow thanks since if you can read and have Epocrates ANYONE can do that!

$200K+ a year, and on average really only work 3 days a week doing mainly lunches. With this pretty laidback lifestyle I have managed to make a small fortune in stock options over the last twenty years.

So back to the Sales Bot crack…Umm let’s see…count pills by fives, talk to the AARP crowd about glucose levels and work 50+ hours a week at CVS to make $185K versus what I do?…which is making $200K+ a year, and on average really only working 3 days a week doing mainly lunches and talking to oncologist about treatments, practice management, reimbursement, AE management, potential clinical trials, etc. With this pretty laidback lifestyle I’ve managed to make a small fortune in stock options over the last twenty years. The more I think about it your job sounds like it could easily be replaced by a robot…oh that’s right it already has in the form of a computer, a printer, the internet and a HS dropout Pharm Tech. Look I get that you were the nerds of your high school yet not smart enough to go medical school, or dental school, or veterinarian school, or for that matter chiropractic, or optometry school where pharmacy school sort of lands between. So keep wearing your cheap clothes driving your cheap cars and living in your cheap condos, and keep telling yourself your job has ‘worth’ or ‘value’. BTW you think we really care that we have to sign in at your crappy office when we come to your hospital??? We love having to sign in so we can laugh our asses off because you think you actually have power or influence and we get a chance to see the pictures on your desk and wall of your big vacation to the Sandals Resort or that new Camry or if you really ‘made it’ that C class or 3 series BMW. I’ve worked in hospitals and academic centers for 20 years and in the hierarchy of a medical center the pharmacist is one step above a orderly in terms of respect, power and influence. Go back to your hole and get off your mom’s computer and stop thinking you are anything but a joke in the health care machine. Last I checked when someone is having a heart attack or gets into a car accident they aren’t screaming, “Quick, get me a pharmacist”!
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  #187  
Old 03-01-2012, 08:18 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

You are so full of BS Mr Oncology "genius".

Go play pretend elsewhere.
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  #188  
Old 03-02-2012, 08:03 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
You are so full of BS Mr Oncology "genius".

Go play pretend elsewhere.
How so? Pretty spot on to me.
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  #189  
Old 04-05-2012, 04:28 AM
DrMookie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Man... my $130,000 job as a PharmD must be make believe. Either that, or I and all my fellow PharmDs have the hospital fooled to pays us so much because we have a worthless degress. Society pays you what you are worth. Who knew right? Anyway, getting back to work. Having to figure out a therapeutic problem on a cancer patient that does not want to metabolize a drug properly. A case of pharmacogenomics; conferencing with genetics lab to determine the patient's alleles. Then I have to figure the pharmacokinetic profile for future dosing regimen... wow and it was only yesterday that we learn to count by two's in pharmacy school.
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  #190  
Old 04-09-2012, 05:32 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMookie View Post
Man... my $130,000 job as a PharmD must be make believe. Either that, or I and all my fellow PharmDs have the hospital fooled to pays us so much because we have a worthless degress. Society pays you what you are worth. Who knew right? Anyway, getting back to work. Having to figure out a therapeutic problem on a cancer patient that does not want to metabolize a drug properly. A case of pharmacogenomics; conferencing with genetics lab to determine the patient's alleles. Then I have to figure the pharmacokinetic profile for future dosing regimen... wow and it was only yesterday that we learn to count by two's in pharmacy school.
Why, didn't you know the oncology rep brings so much value to patient care? Didn't realize doughnuts, lunch and shiny detail pieces ever made it to the patient for consideration. Yes, oncology rep, your services are so integral to patient care that you have to bribe the "window witch" to get in to see the oncologist. The oncologist doesn't give a damn about what you have to say unless you are bringing a bribe (well you pharma guys call it an "invitation") in the form of a high-paying advisory or consultant board position during which they bitch about having to listen to you. Your two weeks of learning a new compound to pass that all-important product knowledge test qualifies you to be an expert on the package insert, but you know squat about the product itself except how to moan to your DM that no one is paying for it. My what "value" you bring.

Guess my four years of pharmacy school, two years of fellowship and postdoc were just useless compared to you sitting in a large conference room looking at slides and role-playing all day. Of course, the horror of you actually having to share a hotel room must be unbearable. I guess those three textbook chapters that I wrote with my fellowship director, and the fifteen published articles I have written for medical journals just do not compare with you taking lunch orders and delivering doughnuts and coffee. And all of those nights I actually spent with patients administering their chemo and palliative meds were nothing, because you delivered the example LMN that the oncologist had to push you for three times while you were too busy putting Starbucks coffee and coffee cake in your mouth lying about the number of calls you made to your DM.

Do we really think, oncology rep, that you make over $200,000? No. More like you make about half of what I do in base, and you are on a PIP because your boss ripped you a new asshole for not making your quota. While you are lying about your mileage, we are at work actually caring for patients. While you are gloating over your "President's Club" trip to Aruba, we are planning our vacations to Fiji.

You get what you pay for, and your company pays you crap because you are crap. Have a nice life, copier salesman.
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  #191  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:55 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Sales bot…funny. Let’s see, I sell targeted and chemo agents for cancer, never sampled a drug in my life and I could talk circles around you, and 95% of the PharmD’s out there in terms of cancer and cancer treatments. Most of the time it is the tenured oncology reps that have to show the PharmD MSL the ropes in oncology as your ‘Phd’ level education really only teaches you classes of drugs at a macro level leaving you with very little functional knowledge. In the class of drugs that is the most toxic, oncologics, the PharmD has virtually no impact, knowledge, or use, as infusion nurses mix most chemos day in and day out. Sure you can tell a doc what antibiotic shouldn’t be used with which statin…Wow thanks since if you can read and have Epocrates ANYONE can do that!

$200K+ a year, and on average really only work 3 days a week doing mainly lunches. With this pretty laidback lifestyle I have managed to make a small fortune in stock options over the last twenty years.

So back to the Sales Bot crack…Umm let’s see…count pills by fives, talk to the AARP crowd about glucose levels and work 50+ hours a week at CVS to make $185K versus what I do?…which is making $200K+ a year, and on average really only working 3 days a week doing mainly lunches and talking to oncologist about treatments, practice management, reimbursement, AE management, potential clinical trials, etc. With this pretty laidback lifestyle I’ve managed to make a small fortune in stock options over the last twenty years. The more I think about it your job sounds like it could easily be replaced by a robot…oh that’s right it already has in the form of a computer, a printer, the internet and a HS dropout Pharm Tech. Look I get that you were the nerds of your high school yet not smart enough to go medical school, or dental school, or veterinarian school, or for that matter chiropractic, or optometry school where pharmacy school sort of lands between. So keep wearing your cheap clothes driving your cheap cars and living in your cheap condos, and keep telling yourself your job has ‘worth’ or ‘value’. BTW you think we really care that we have to sign in at your crappy office when we come to your hospital??? We love having to sign in so we can laugh our asses off because you think you actually have power or influence and we get a chance to see the pictures on your desk and wall of your big vacation to the Sandals Resort or that new Camry or if you really ‘made it’ that C class or 3 series BMW. I’ve worked in hospitals and academic centers for 20 years and in the hierarchy of a medical center the pharmacist is one step above a orderly in terms of respect, power and influence. Go back to your hole and get off your mom’s computer and stop thinking you are anything but a joke in the health care machine. Last I checked when someone is having a heart attack or gets into a car accident they aren’t screaming, “Quick, get me a pharmacist”!
Oh really "Senior Oncology Rep"? Unfortunately for you, a few regulatory facts and laws contradict most of what you say.

1) Ever hear of the OIG Guidance and December 2011 revisions? Specifically forbids reps and MSLs from working together even on an introductory basis. Prohibits MSLs and Reps from engaging in promotional activities together. If you were such a tenured rep, either you would know this or you are willfully engaging in non-compliant activities.

2) If you are NOT a licensed health care professional, it is unethical for a physician or any other licensed health care professional to seek or take any advice from you with regard to any patient in their care. They can't even discuss a patient with you per HIPAA, even IF you have a patient assistance program requiring paperwork, that discussion is specifically prohibited. Once again, if you are doing it as a "tenured rep", then you are willfully engaging in breaking the law.

3) Even a newly minted PharmD knows more about the mechanisms of activity and is specifically authorized and licensed to talk off-label to a physician or other prescriber. You are not. OIG December 2011 guidance makes that distinction between "scientific or clinical staff" and marketing/sales staff. If you are giving dosing advice to a physician, then you have broken the law willfully.

4) In all hospitals which carry CMS or Joint Commission accreditation, all sterile compounding, with the exception of medications which are used in emergencies (chemo is not an emergency) must be mixed in a 797 compliant compounding facility. All chemos must be mixed in the appropriate vertical laminar flow hood (or biological isolator) and dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Infusion nurses can mix only in private offices or clinics but not in a hospital. If you were such a "tenured rep" with hospital experience, you would know that.

5) Nobody here thinks you make $200K a year. Then again, nobody really cares. You drive a company car, deliver lunch and in general add nothing of value to patient care. A Fedex driver or a catering driver could do your job.

As for talking around anyone, you probably had to talk your ass off to your DM to avoid being fired for compliance violations that you mentioned yourself. At the very minimum, you are engaging in unethical behavior and illegal behavior. Please do tell us how you did not break the law.
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  #192  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:12 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Oh really "Senior Oncology Rep"? Unfortunately for you, a few regulatory facts and laws contradict most of what you say.

1) Ever hear of the OIG Guidance and December 2011 revisions? Specifically forbids reps and MSLs from working together even on an introductory basis. Prohibits MSLs and Reps from engaging in promotional activities together. If you were such a tenured rep, either you would know this or you are willfully engaging in non-compliant activities.

2) If you are NOT a licensed health care professional, it is unethical for a physician or any other licensed health care professional to seek or take any advice from you with regard to any patient in their care. They can't even discuss a patient with you per HIPAA, even IF you have a patient assistance program requiring paperwork, that discussion is specifically prohibited. Once again, if you are doing it as a "tenured rep", then you are willfully engaging in breaking the law.

3) Even a newly minted PharmD knows more about the mechanisms of activity and is specifically authorized and licensed to talk off-label to a physician or other prescriber. You are not. OIG December 2011 guidance makes that distinction between "scientific or clinical staff" and marketing/sales staff. If you are giving dosing advice to a physician, then you have broken the law willfully.

4) In all hospitals which carry CMS or Joint Commission accreditation, all sterile compounding, with the exception of medications which are used in emergencies (chemo is not an emergency) must be mixed in a 797 compliant compounding facility. All chemos must be mixed in the appropriate vertical laminar flow hood (or biological isolator) and dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Infusion nurses can mix only in private offices or clinics but not in a hospital. If you were such a "tenured rep" with hospital experience, you would know that.

5) Nobody here thinks you make $200K a year. Then again, nobody really cares. You drive a company car, deliver lunch and in general add nothing of value to patient care. A Fedex driver or a catering driver could do your job.

As for talking around anyone, you probably had to talk your ass off to your DM to avoid being fired for compliance violations that you mentioned yourself. At the very minimum, you are engaging in unethical behavior and illegal behavior. Please do tell us how you did not break the law.
1. Wrong. As long as there is not an exchange of off label information the rep can be present and there is no language on who can make introductions.


2. As long as the patient is not ID’s by name HIPPA is not being violated. I sit in tumor boards every week with blinded patient names.

3. PharmD’s know classes of drugs and very little past that especially on MOA.
- Not if the dosing advice is in the label it is not breaking the law.


4. Um jerk off the vast majority of chemo in delivered in the community not the hospital setting which has been done just fine for decades by nurses.

5. Hate to break it to you but most oncology reps at good bio’s do make over $200K. Heck little ol’ Incyte who just hired their sales force last August had starting base salaries between $140K to $150K. I worked at DNA in the heyday and most of us were clearing $200K a year especially in launch years.
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  #193  
Old 04-10-2012, 06:06 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Oh really "Senior Oncology Rep"? Unfortunately for you, a few regulatory facts and laws contradict most of what you say.

1) Ever hear of the OIG Guidance and December 2011 revisions? Specifically forbids reps and MSLs from working together even on an introductory basis. Prohibits MSLs and Reps from engaging in promotional activities together. If you were such a tenured rep, either you would know this or you are willfully engaging in non-compliant activities.

2) If you are NOT a licensed health care professional, it is unethical for a physician or any other licensed health care professional to seek or take any advice from you with regard to any patient in their care. They can't even discuss a patient with you per HIPAA, even IF you have a patient assistance program requiring paperwork, that discussion is specifically prohibited. Once again, if you are doing it as a "tenured rep", then you are willfully engaging in breaking the law.

3) Even a newly minted PharmD knows more about the mechanisms of activity and is specifically authorized and licensed to talk off-label to a physician or other prescriber. You are not. OIG December 2011 guidance makes that distinction between "scientific or clinical staff" and marketing/sales staff. If you are giving dosing advice to a physician, then you have broken the law willfully.

4) In all hospitals which carry CMS or Joint Commission accreditation, all sterile compounding, with the exception of medications which are used in emergencies (chemo is not an emergency) must be mixed in a 797 compliant compounding facility. All chemos must be mixed in the appropriate vertical laminar flow hood (or biological isolator) and dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Infusion nurses can mix only in private offices or clinics but not in a hospital. If you were such a "tenured rep" with hospital experience, you would know that.

5) Nobody here thinks you make $200K a year. Then again, nobody really cares. You drive a company car, deliver lunch and in general add nothing of value to patient care. A Fedex driver or a catering driver could do your job.

As for talking around anyone, you probably had to talk your ass off to your DM to avoid being fired for compliance violations that you mentioned yourself. At the very minimum, you are engaging in unethical behavior and illegal behavior. Please do tell us how you did not break the law.
What did this person write that you see as being non-compliant? They didn’t mention doing anything outside the label. Also the interpretation of OIG varies greatly from company to company. I work very closely with my MSL we go on calls together and he attends my commercial/branded dinner talks. There is nothing legally that prohibits that. We are encouraged to help our MSL’s meet and engage with our customers so again your ramblings are quite nonsensical Your number two statement is also off the charts wrong. Physicians talk to reps all the time about specific yet unidentified patients, how the treatment is working what AE’s the patient may be experiencing and the rep is the first point of contact for any unsolicited requests for off label info. We carry Med Info Request all time and only if the doc checks the ‘have MSL contact me’ box that would be the only time the MSL is involved and I can tell you that it is less than 1 out of 50 that the MSL box gets checked. The only reason my physicians want to see an MSL is to get a clinical trial at their site. That’s it. After that they would rather deal with an MD medical director not a PharmD MSL as you guys have no clue how to actually treat a patient.

“If you are giving dosing advice to a physician, then you have broken the law willfully”. – WHAT??? A rep is almost obligated to give the dosage and dosing of the drug to a physician. If not they are probably not being compliant in the efficacy, safety and dosing triad. So I have no idea what the hell you are talking about when you say a rep can’t give dosing recommendations. Sure they can as long as it is in the label! If you want to get technical about it MSL’s do not have carte blanche to talk off label either so maybe you should do some more reading yourself…


“ In all hospitals which carry CMS or Joint Commission accreditation, all sterile compounding, with the exception of medications which are used in emergencies (chemo is not an emergency) must be mixed in a 797 compliant compounding facility. All chemos must be mixed in the appropriate vertical laminar flow hood (or biological isolator) and dispensed by a licensed pharmacist. Infusion nurses can mix only in private offices or clinics but not in a hospital. If you were such a "tenured rep" with hospital experience, you would know that. “

95% of chemo are given in a non-hospital setting. So again not sure what you point is. My point is 95% of the time a chemo nurse is doing the job of a PharmD, quite effectively I might add…so clearly your ‘expertise’ is not all that needed!

“Nobody here thinks you make $200K a year. Then again, nobody really cares. You drive a company car, deliver lunch and in general add nothing of value to patient care. A Fedex driver or a catering driver could do your job.”

REALLY? If that were the case then why do companies keep hiring reps and keep lowering the MSL headcounts? We just dropped two has all they did all day was annoy the crap out of our customers via email about meaningless things! Someone must find a value in reps if they are paying us $200K, stock options and all the perks…
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  #194  
Old 04-10-2012, 06:14 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMookie View Post
Man... my $130,000 job as a PharmD must be make believe. Either that, or I and all my fellow PharmDs have the hospital fooled to pays us so much because we have a worthless degress. Society pays you what you are worth. Who knew right? Anyway, getting back to work. Having to figure out a therapeutic problem on a cancer patient that does not want to metabolize a drug properly. A case of pharmacogenomics; conferencing with genetics lab to determine the patient's alleles. Then I have to figure the pharmacokinetic profile for future dosing regimen... wow and it was only yesterday that we learn to count by two's in pharmacy school.
BS you have so little impact on any of the above it is silly. Boy how do all the community based oncology practices most of which do not have PharmD’s on staff manage to treat the lion’s share of the cancer patient in the country?
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  #195  
Old 05-30-2012, 08:31 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

I have a cardiac arythmia and take two meds for it. I see an electro physiologist cardiologist at a major teaching center. Have a comorbidity and asked to speak with a PharmD about potential drug/drug interactions and competing metabolic pathways. When I finally got him to speak with me, he said he "normally doesn't speak tp patients" but would make an exception! When I asked him specific questions about competitive metabolic pathways, his response to me was to google the question and read me the answer. What a joke. I have a Master of Physiology and an ARNP, have 4 more years of grad school than a PharmD ( they really don't go to grad school), and I could tell him more than he knew about my drug interactions. Nurse practitioners should petition legislature to be called doctors. To call a druggist a doctor is just outrageous. It is deceptive and can be clearly harmful to patients for someone with 5 years of college, no patient care experience and no ability to prescribe or treat patients to call themselves a doctor. Shame on the decision makers who made that call.
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  #196  
Old 06-01-2012, 05:45 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
I have a cardiac arythmia and take two meds for it. I see an electro physiologist cardiologist at a major teaching center. Have a comorbidity and asked to speak with a PharmD about potential drug/drug interactions and competing metabolic pathways. When I finally got him to speak with me, he said he "normally doesn't speak tp patients" but would make an exception! When I asked him specific questions about competitive metabolic pathways, his response to me was to google the question and read me the answer. What a joke. I have a Master of Physiology and an ARNP, have 4 more years of grad school than a PharmD ( they really don't go to grad school), and I could tell him more than he knew about my drug interactions. Nurse practitioners should petition legislature to be called doctors. To call a druggist a doctor is just outrageous. It is deceptive and can be clearly harmful to patients for someone with 5 years of college, no patient care experience and no ability to prescribe or treat patients to call themselves a doctor. Shame on the decision makers who made that call.
I call BS on this lie. You have nothing of what you speak and are clearly a sample-dropping, lunch-catering, know-nothing Rep-bot.

Go back to fantasy land fool!
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  #197  
Old 06-03-2012, 08:19 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
I have a cardiac arythmia and take two meds for it. I see an electro physiologist cardiologist at a major teaching center. Have a comorbidity and asked to speak with a PharmD about potential drug/drug interactions and competing metabolic pathways. When I finally got him to speak with me, he said he "normally doesn't speak tp patients" but would make an exception! When I asked him specific questions about competitive metabolic pathways, his response to me was to google the question and read me the answer. What a joke. I have a Master of Physiology and an ARNP, have 4 more years of grad school than a PharmD ( they really don't go to grad school), and I could tell him more than he knew about my drug interactions. Nurse practitioners should petition legislature to be called doctors. To call a druggist a doctor is just outrageous. It is deceptive and can be clearly harmful to patients for someone with 5 years of college, no patient care experience and no ability to prescribe or treat patients to call themselves a doctor. Shame on the decision makers who made that call.
Ms. NP -

You all are not medical doctors and will never be called such. Some NPs have such an inflated since of worth. I'm a PA with masters and other degrees as well. Both my parents are doctors. They complain consistently about NPs and how arrogant they are. Walking around like they are "doctors". They even introduce themselves as being a doctor - how misleading.

You must be one resident clueless NP on this board. Go back to your favorite play area. No body cares about your high opinion of yourself.
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  #198  
Old 06-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
I call BS on this lie. You have nothing of what you speak and are clearly a sample-dropping, lunch-catering, know-nothing Rep-bot.

Go back to fantasy land fool!
I love "Dr. Druggist" calling someone a "bot" when 95% of a pharmacist's job in this day and age is done by a computer...
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  #199  
Old 06-17-2012, 07:42 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

and then comes the new health care reform. The part about everyone has to get health insurance is contestable but not the perfunctory part. That part says that pharmacists will be providers. We will charge the insurance companies for DUR and MTM. Finally, the PharmD will get paid for their knowledge and not just for added benefit to the health system. Our income will jump by at least 40%. Hospitals are preparing for this in CPOE. We are already being hammered into our heads that we have to do iVents and mark time spent on profile/progress review to create billable hours. What revolution is taking place !
About what MD's think about PharmDs. here is a great article in a MD journal : http://www.todayshospitalist.com/ind...s_read&cnt=177

Be warned that the article is a bit dated (2006) .
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  #200  
Old 06-24-2012, 09:05 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: PharmD's are not doctors!

I love the silliness of this thread. Especially when the Repbots get all bent out of shape they're BS in Psychology is worthless and they are nothing more the lunch caterers
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