ALO-02 and Embeda

Discussion in 'Pfizer' started by Anonymous, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:07 AM.

Tags: Add Tags
  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    If ALO-02 is approved, will we have the same problems selling that drug as we have with Embeda? It's the same technology, right?
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    maybe. maybe not. 02 has oxycodone, right?

    No one cares about Embeda because morphine isn't prescribed much for chronic pain.

    No one cares about Zohydro or Hysingla (hydrocodone) because the payers won't let them. Payers don't want want millions of generic Vicodin scripts being converted to a a branded ER hydrocodone.

    Oxycodone a different story. OC market share is plummeting and no one seems to like the abuse-deterrent formulation of OC. You might have some traction if you kick the shit out of Purdue on the contracting side and make payers your friends. Really, if you want to make some headway, price it right and crush Purdue like a bug. They've never faced a big boy before.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Morphine doesn't get written for chronic pain? In what market is that true?

    Sure OC is the 800 lb gorilla, and ALO2 could put a hurting on it, but Embeda will get some market share, quite a bit if the legislative environment tilts in its favor. It'll be a battle of insurers vs Pharma, which usually means insurers win, but the politics of this issue may blow up in the face of insurers. Too many powerful people have been affected by the scourge of addiction, making the argument for ADF opioids a real threat to the insurers deep political pockets. Normally money always wins, but if you have a legislator or governor who lost a loved one to pills...
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    What ever ended up killing Remoxy btw? Did the bioequivalence studies blow up?
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    branded morphine that is. generic is written all the time
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Once word gets around amongst the pain docs that one went down hard because they didn't even care to try to Rx an FDA labeled abuse deterrent opioid and somebody got hurt on it other than taking multiple pills, it should speed up the process of Embeda's usefulness, as well as ALO-02.

    But hey, these guys could care less about their liability. It's all about what's best for the patient.
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    And how does MCO coverage come into the mix. Docs prescribe all day long based on coverage-not necessarily what's best/safest.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Does ALO-02 have the same leakage problem with naltrexone as Embeda? Can it put someone in withdrawal? I didn't think Remoxy had that problem.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You must not sell Embeda because you would know this answer.

    So far, I've never seen better coverage of a branded in my 15 yr career. In Mass. It's the law that all abuse deterrent opioid s must be covered with zero restrictions. It's looking like the MCOs are following that law nationally. More states have the same bills pending.

    In short time, the only reason a doc doesn't even try to Rx the abuse deterrents are only nefarious ones, I.e. running a pill mill, or pure incompetence, or pure stupid hubris.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You're correct I do not sell Embeda. Based on your reply it should do well. I would think by not prescribing it the doctor opens themselves up to a liability issue.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I did a random search of one health plan in Mass (Tufts). EMBEDA is tier 4. OxyContin is tier 3. Generic extended release oxymorphone is tier 2, as are a slew of other opioids.

    An n of 1 admittedly but it was the first one I looked at. Good luck on tier 4 in chronic pain. If this is best you've ever seen, I'd love to know what you sold previously.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Couldn't find coverage on "The Empire plan-CVS Caremark in NY State either.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    No, abuse liability study blew up after Pfizer fixed the formulation.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    yes, that is correct sir. there were no PK issues from dr Malhootma.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You must not be a rep. Any rep would know that a branded drug with little to no restrictions is fantastic. Tier 4 means naught to a patient if they use Embeda's co-pay card bringing the out of pocket costs to only $25 per month. Go to Embeda.com and download a card if you like?

    $25 per month is a small price to pay for the enhanced protection of potential abuse by a family member who may steal some of the patients' pills and for the liability issues for the doctors.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You're right. You smoked me out. But let's throw in prior authorization. How's that affect sales of a brand in a generic market? If Embeda is not taking the world by storm, then Pfizer reps must suck big time, because the sales should be higher if all this tier and managed care stuff is irrelevant.
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Given the choice of paying $5 for a generic or $25 for a brand, the patient will almost always go with the cheaper alternative. It happens with all classes of drugs. so why would Embeda be any different. Patients are cheap-- you know it, I know it, the docs know, and the pharmacist knows it. Thousands of branded scripts go unfilled or switched every day my friend. Very few people see the benefit/advantage of branded medication. Sad but true.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I smell a managed care manager in the thread with that corny copay line...said no successful rep EVER. You better hope you have a rep left that has some good relationships with docs in the field to pull that one through. Oh, you wouldnt have that bc you get rid of them every 2-3 yrs. Oh well, good luck with this one! Look out reps-it will be your fault when all those prior auths come through! Classic set up.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The co-pay card and ease of filling out prior auths are almost the only thing discussed with a doctor in this day and age. That is the hardest thing to sell to a prescriber. Their time and repeat business (I.e. Making the patient happy by NOT prescribing information that they can't afford) are what are important. No relationship is losing your patients over by prescribing a med that is hard to get, expensive, and isn't better. Face it people, prescription me-tos are what keep us employed and will constantly keep us on the chopping block.
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    precisely, which is all we care about.