PharmD's are not doctors!

Discussion in 'MSL Board' started by Anonymous, Sep 11, 2007 at 2:00 AM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    In case the pompous ass who wrote this is still around 4 years later, I'd like to point out that he's an idiot. "Doctor" = agent noun formed from "doctus", the perfect passive participle of "docere" ("to teach"). In other words, the literal translation of "doctor" is "teacher" (whereas "ductor" = "leader"), so take it easy, champ.

    In any case, some PhDs are smart, and others are just glorified lab monkeys. Believe me. I was in a PhD program, and I got bounced out because I sucked at performing the specific laboratory tasks I was called on to perform--not because I didn't understand science. The flip side of that is that lots of people make it through their PhD programs because they're great at moving clear liquids from one Eppendorf tube to another, even if they have a pretty tenuous grasp on the science behind it. This becomes painfully clear to me when I discuss preclinical/clinical studies with these dudes.

    Sincerely,
    Guy who is neither a rep nor an MSL
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The only pharmacy degree you can get is a PharmD as of 1997.

    Try talking to your therapist about your issues. You seem to have a lot of them.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Your point?
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Yes but the real ‘campaign’ to have the professional title of “Dr.” in front of a sir name has happened in the last 5 years of so. I’ve been dealing with pharmacists at MCO’s for 20 years and it has been the more recent crop of graduates in the last 5 or so years that when you meet they introduce themselves as Dr. Smith, only to learn after the meeting that they are only a pharmacist. I agree with the other poster that in the healthcare setting where traditionally the only people addressed as Dr. were MD’s it is confusing for Pharmacists to address/introduce themselves as doctor. It seems a bit egocentric yet insecure that there is a movement by pharmacists, who are the only one calling for this change mind you, that they be addressed as “Doctor”. When I relay this silly website to my physician friends they LTAO that pharmacists want to be called Doctor. Why not just say, “Hello, I’m Pharmacist John”? or “ tell them to get into med school”, as one of them replied…”if they want to be called Doctor”.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    What seems to be lost in this long diatribe on the nomenclature of who can be called "doctor" is the history of the title. Physicians weren't called "doctors" until the actual formalization of the educational part of being a physician some time around the 18th century. Prior to that and enduring to this day, the term "doctor" applied to the highest terminal degree in academics, the doctorate. The MD (Medical Doctorate) degree is a "technical degree" and is based upon the faithful completion of coursework and passing your exams. The PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) degree is the terminal degree in any field of study and represents the completion of all coursework, as well as a 3 unstructured examinations by your dissertation committee including your general exam, proposal exam and dissertation defense. The PhD is required to plan, execute, publish and defend their knowledge to a committee of no less than 6 (by most schools) professors and there is no set time limit to the time this may take. That is why the PhD on average takes at least 7 years unlike the MD which takes 4.

    In reality your MD is no different than the pharmacist's PharmD (a degree created by pharmacy schools and the profession for various reasons) or the registered nurse or registered radiology technologist or certified public accountant, etc... These are all technical degrees that lead to acquisition of a state license.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Have you ever noticed that physicians (true doctors) will introduce themselves as their first and last name, while PharmDs calls themselves "Dr. Doe". They could not get into med school and become real doctors. Instead, they petitioned the Board of Pharmacy to write new regs calling them doctors. One PharmD in a CVS introduced herself as Dr. X to my 85-year old mother. I had to tell my mother (right in front of the PharmD) that this was not a real doctor. They PharmD then (instead of answering my 85-year old mother's question) went into a monolouge about PharmDs are equivalent to MDs/DOs. So, I had to ask for a real pharmacist to come over and answer my mother's question.
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    that is so true!! They are stuck in the nether-world. Not real pharmacists and not real doctors. Very funny!! If they wanted to be scientists, they should have been PhDs. If they wanted to be doctors, then medical school. I love to hear them call themselves doctor. It is so funny, because they believe it!
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    PharmDs have less schooling than a Chiropractor or an optomitrist. Less school than a master's prepared nurse practitioner. Less school than a master's prepared PA. But they feel comfortable calling themselves Doctor. Are you kidding me? I couldn't do it. I could not look someone directly in the eye and call myself a doctor. Have never TOUCHED a patient ever. Have never prescribed for a patient.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Do you feel better now that you have posted the same thing multiple times?

    Your OCD really needs treated.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    No, your "I AM a doctor, I AM a doctor, I AM a doctor" issues need to be treated. You're a loser.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hmmmm. Has anyone ever heard of an online program available for obtaining an MD or PhD degree? I didn't think so. It is the online PharmD program (not to mention this is now an entry level degree) that bastardized the pharmacy profession. Today, the PharmD degree is nothing more than an inflated BS in pharmacy degree, an extra year or so of providing free labor in the form of clinical rotations at hospitals, PBMs, and pharma co's. It's a slick money making racket masterminded by those running the educational system. Think about it, the PharmD student is actually paying the school tuition to work during these rotations and then those intriguing resident and fellowship programs made available after 6 or 7 didactic years are merely providing cheap labor alternatives to those co's offering such programs. And the irony is that a majority of these PharmD graduates who participate in resident and fellowship programs wind up working in the very same retail pharmacy chains or basement/dungeon hospital pharmacies formerly run by RPhs with 5-year BS in pharmacy degrees.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    They are pharmacists!! Drugists. They fill prescriptions. They don't treat patients and cannot prescribe (like ARNPs and PAs). Please stop calling them doctors.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    When did I ever call myself "Doctor"?

    You are the one who keeps whining about pharmacists being called "Doctor". If they earned the degree, why not call them that?

    Get over your small penis issues already - and move out of your mommy's basement.
     
  14. I am currently a Pharmacy Tech. working for Target. We are extremely busy and over worked and underpaid, just like the Pharmacists. They go to school for years so they can make sure your MD is not killing you with overdosing on the combo of pain meds or that the meds will interact and kill you or that Bupropion SR is BID not QD, such a common mistake or that you can't take more than 8 endocet's in 24hrs. You must get your PharmD now b/c of so much patient counseling. We are treated like MD's, guests/patients come up and ask what to take when they are sick or how this med with effect them in certain situations. There are so many times we have to call MDs to tell them to switch a med b/c they wrote the Rx wrong or that it the drug does not exist in that strength or that hrmmmm you cant split Pristiq b/c is extended release but I guess b/c it does not say ER or XL on the bottle they just didn't know that. They are real Drs. They bust their ass through school, retail is very diff. from hospital. My dad supervises the pharmacy of one of the most well known Hospitals in D.C. Also, some states do allow PharmD's to prescribe and to change drugs of the same class when seen fit. The future shows that more pressure will be put on Techs, which Pharmacists are counselling pts and medication management and drug therapy monitoring are paving the way for community pharmacy. Why go to the Dr. and pay a Co-pay when you can go to the Pharmacy counter and get sound medical advice. I can't wait to start pharmacy school and yes I want to work retail, but not b/c of the money but b/c of what I do every day now and I see how much we help pts. We are all in health care, shouldn't we stand united and respect one another for their contribution to the bettering and wellness of our pts?
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I don’t disagree with anything you said other than most AE/ DD interactions are caught on the computer. Also pharmacists are not licensed to diagnose or treat so there will be limitations to how involved they will actually be. The crux of this argument is historically the R. Pharmacist was never referred to as “Doctor”. Then the pharmacy schools got smart/greedy, and in the eyes of many, they unnecessarily made the pharmacy degree into a “doctoral” level degree. Let me try to draw a comparison, in business school one can earn an doctorate of BA, but it is not all that necessary nor do they possess a much broader knowledge base than their MBA counterparts. So sure you have a “doctorate” degree but is it necessary or does it provide with a wider knowledge base? Probably not. Yes they may have earned a doctoral level degree but many feel that the term “doctor” should be reserved for the physician and in the academic settings a Phd.. All it does in confuse patients by pharmacists demanding themselves be called “doctor”. Like another person stated, lawyers earn a Juris Doctorate yet I know of no practicing lawyers you asked to be addressed as doctor. I get it, most of this is semantics but I do think there is a psychological aspect where pharmacists what to be viewed as being at the same “level” as their MD counterparts.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    boy, this topic wont die?
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Well this is common sense. someone goes through a doctor of medicine program and is called a doctor, or a doctor of philosophy and is called a doctor, so why can't a pharmacist be called a doctor after undertaking a doctor of pharmacy program. this is simple LOGIC. note: the prefix 'Dr' is not only associated with medicine.Only illiterates question credentials that have been obtained legally, and where is it written that the criteria to be called a Dr. is diagnosing and treating patients. Some of you are very narrow minded. please learn to embrace changes and new ideas. thank you all.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Thank you so much!
    Little pet peve, why are we calling MD's offices so much b/c they write for meds that are not appropriate, too expensive, or the dosing is so off they will kill a pt like on a simple Rx or Vicodin ? or they are surprised when we call back and get them to change it.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Ok if it is "common sense" why then do we not call attorneys by "doctor" as they have earned a JD? Pharmacists historically were never called "doctor" and creating an unnecessary, bloated ciriculum does not make you any more a "doctor" than your R.Pharm predecessors. It was a money grab for pharmacy schools pushed by the pharmacist lobby groups to justify higher wages. The reason PharmD's want to be addressed as "doctor" is based on their insecurities of not getting into medical school. Make know mistake most pharmacy students in this country are kids who didn't get into medical school.
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Historically, lawyers in most European countries were addressed with the title of doctor, and countries outside of Europe have generally followed the practice of the European country which had policy influence through modernization or colonialization. The first university degrees, starting with the law school of the University of Bologna (or glossators) in the 11th century, were all law degrees and doctorates. Degrees in other fields were not granted until the 13th century, but the doctorate continued to be the only degree offered at many of the old universities up until the 20th century. As a result, in many of the southern European countries, including Portugal, Spain and Italy, lawyers have traditionally been addressed as “doctor,” a practice which was transferred to many countries in South America (as well as Macau in China)

    TLDR: who gives a shit?