Is it true there are 4-5 oncology reps sharing a territory?

It is true that many if not most community territories will now be five reps. Yes these reps do all call on the same gate keepers and the same doctors that basically specialize in nothing and the whole thing is absolutely idiotic. We are all set up for a massive reorganization in approximately two years. No surprise here as this is what Bristol-Myers Squibb management has done for years in its sample dropping divisions. Ask anyone in the company and they will agree. Now if you look at the management of the oncology division you can see why this is happening. The management of the oncology division at mid levels and high levels is overwhelmingly comprised of those who came from sample dropping divisions such as neuroscience and cardiovascular metabolics. They are obsessed with completely unrealistic metrics, such as 4 to 5 calls a day on oncologists, which is impossible virtually everywhere and everyone knows this. They also will give you a budget and basically threaten you if you do not find ways to squander the money on food and honoraria. Oh yeah, my favorite.....they have these canned, pre-fabricated promo emails they call triggers and there are unbelievably crazy quotas with these things where you are basically forced to repeatedly spam your customers and five people are all doing this per territory.

So why don't people leave? Oh they do and they have. It was a major issue about a year and a half ago which is why they have made the cars nicer and are now offering retention incentives

 

Last post is spot on. So accurate.

 

Recently had the opportunity to interview for a position for Opdivo. Great product! Great science! Lousy organization. When I asked how they expected to coordinate 5 reps calling on the same office they responded "We are BMS. We will execute it effectively!" And I thought I screwed up some of my responses during the interview???

 

I normally roll my eyes at most postings on here, and rarely post. This one I absolutely believe. I used to be with virology division and had the exact same thing happen. The minute FV(I think he is still around annoying everyone) and DF (I heard he left, thought he was a jerk) came into the scene from CV/Met to virology as regional managers, it went downhill and fast. Throw in the a-holes from neuroscience division who put the entire company under the microscope for compliance and virology was run into the ground with the double whammy. Those two jerks brought in their managers and marketing team from their metric-driven division and it went from the envy of the company to the mundane quickly. I don't even know what that virology team is doing anymore, because those products are now so dated. From reading the above post it sounds like all of the specialty divisions have lost their specialty identity and are just another division with the same metric driven mentality instead of patient and science focus.

 

Cudos to the poster above. I thought I was alone in my despair. This is exactly how onc is run these days and this is LITERALLY what each day is like

 

Clearly written by somebody in marketing or oncology management. Why would somebody from another division be reading oncology posts to the degree of getting tired of hearing about any issue. Hey dude, fuck off. I suspect you have never had an interaction with a doctor who just told somebody they are going to die soon while at the exact same time being there to sell your product to a doctor that only sees you once a year. I cut my teeth in this industry selling what would be primary care products and the is a huge difference between that and oncology. If you and the other inexperienced geniuses in NJ understood that beyond the theory of the idea things would improve in oncology

 

Different poster but you need to get over yourself. Any of us that are honest and have done primary care, specialty, hospital, and true biotech know the reality of the jobs. They're more similar than different and you don't get time with docs unless you bring food regardless of whether it's FP, IM, Neurology, or Oncology. People like you make me laugh because you've drank the kool aid and somehow now think you're doing something "better" than the primary care rep. Look in the mirror and ask yourself how much time you get with an oncologist if you're not packing food. There's little difference in the daily jactivity of these roles with possibly the exception of the hospital job so get over yourself.

 

more are welcome bring wet noodle

 

The point of the OP is the ridiculous pod/metrics mentality.

That is, essentially, a primary care mentality. The jobs are similar to a degree, however my days in oncology I spent hours in the evenings and weekends at ONS meetings.

I won't say what call point I have now, but it's not at BMS or Onc. I came to CP to see what was the latest scuttlebutt, as I was getting recruited by BMS. Pods?! No thanks, I'll keep covering the state here on my own, thank you very much!

 

It's fantastic having 5 reps calling on one office. I had a closed office just today tell me "now that there are 5 of you, i decided to open the doors, because 5 reps is the lucky number".

Oncology management sucks 24/7

 

Just unbelievable that your company has a 4-5 person pod in one territory. This is why we can't see anyone anymore because of crap like BMS!!!

 

Novartis have 4-5 also and so does DNA

 

Works for us and the numbers show. Maybe try communicating a little more, you are generating 20 million plus/year. That doesnt happen with 1 rep per territory and 4 products.

 

The whole expansion was a huge mistake. Most oncologist "targets" will not meet with any rep let alone 5 reps. Now 600+ people driving around the country and over half are doing nothing at all in territory.....Class act BMS management! Way to stay in touch with the realities of your business.

 

Gotta paste this over here kids,

I find this COMMERCIAL ARMS RACE mindset so laughable.......So, inappropriate, unimaginative and frightened by nature.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle; but you can find a better miracle in SFE to print that revered USD, if you have the guts to try.

Heroes are so hard to come by these days.

 

No one with experience across orphan, institutional, specialty, the big "O" and PCPs would argue there are differences and similarities, TODAY in pharma.

The DIFFERENCES in a 'true' BIOTECH, BIG MOLECULE, SPECIALTY PHARMACY and 'like stuff' selling model & sales cycle demands a multi-pronged approach typically more complex than PCP sales. All done with some sophistication (if done well) to create forms of awareness, NRx with sometimes complicated adherence approaches & team coordination to improve outcomes with sustained patient satisfaction. And, "O" can claim much of that. But, are flood of BMS Oncology reps really able to deliver all that and more, each day, each call? Of course not. Just speaks to 'unGodly' margins folks.

But the SIMILARITIES are essentially, all the pressures and restrictions that exist everywhere in the U.S. prescription world TODAY (post-2005 for sure). And, if followed, legally, are everywhere (e.g. the package insert as thy Bible today, most days, most calls) for everyone.


I respect the pediatrician, a family practitioner and the oncologist all the same as professionals. Same goes with pharma reps, just behave accordingly.

 

This is exactly what this has become. Perfect description

 

There are 5 because that's how many it takes to make one good rep.

 

I sold Taxol, Ifex, mesna, Carboplatin, Etoposide and Megace generating near 30million a year with only 1 other rep in the territory. We also could read and sell from endless sources well beyond the PI indication...it can be done, it was done. Current behaviors, regulations and inaccurate reporting lead to laziness, dishonesty and apathy.

 

Here at the meeting so frustrated and disappointed in the politics, immaturity and favoritism. I love and appreciate the friendly, skilled, experienced reps that want to partner and help. The territory sales POD is tough. Requiring metrics with no real impact is tough. A required direct mail email monthly? Just sending them checks a box? Giving a territory owner no descretion to know when direct mail is effective is demeaning. if you want to pay me 190k to send corporate scripted emails no problem. But it doesn't create sales. It pisses off med onc's that might have communicated via email but they send us to spam or unsubscribe now. Way to destroy another communication channel in oncology where true connection and access is difficult. They don't even track open rates- just that you send them.
Back stabbing, favoritism, competition and lack of transparency in the teams is growing. The DBMs and unethical reps are so busy sucking up and drinking the Kool Aid that there is not leadership towards true results. The competition is cmpeting drugs, companies and treatment options like keytruda not your partner reps. The next time you need a favor don't rely on that partner rep that knows you tear them down to management, knows you hide a new nurse or MD or don't share contacts and appointments. We aren't dumb. We see it. We are just too polite to say it to your face. We don't trust you and when you need help we will be mysteriously busy or " just missed your call". Your quality of life can be made or broken by your territory peers.

And lay offs are a true possibility. But we will have I/O experience. The hard working reps will tire of the politics. We have experience. We interview well. We earned this role. We will earn another role with a raise. No concern there.
The drugs are great. Helping patients is fantastic and rewarding. I hope the management enforces true teamwork and allows reps to own their own territory business. Our results will speak for us- not mandatory spam mail. Trust the people you hired and let them succeed.