ASR

Discussion in 'DePuy Ortho' started by Anonymous, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:42 PM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    What is the latest on ASR?
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    First lawsuits settled for little to nothing 200K/ea. Shame on those lawyers for not getting more. Most of these guys will just be looking for quick settlements. These cases should all get to trial and be worth 2-3 million per patient.

    The media is starting to figure out that DePuy's handling of ASR was a cover-up. They have known about the problems for years prior to recall but were just trying pass the blame and silently recall the product 'due to decline in market demand'. JNJ has a pretty solid record of silent recalls. It's too bad morality and profitability can no longer coexist at JNJ.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Anyone who has attended and observed 10 ASR revisions knows exactly what is going on.

    What a trail of human misery. 200k for some of what I've seen. What a gross insult.

    Pinnacle M-o-M is next (although at a rate more like 15% at 7 years rather than the 50% with ASR) and the same pattern of denial is repeating.

    I don't think they even mean to be evil. It's just a J&J THING.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Almost all of the ASRs I have seen( I've seen a lot) were well fixed with little to no metal debris. Almost every time the surgeon was mad that a lawyer convinced the patient to have it removed. There are a lot of legitimate failures and that is tragic but I think it's sad that a lot of patients were talked into having an unnecessary surgeon so the lawyer could benefit. With regards to Pinnacle mom, there is nothing to suggest that it is having any problems that the entire group of mom implants aren't having.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    so the surgeon was mad because there was only "little" metal debris???? I hope DePuy gets what it deserves. They knew there was problems
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    OK - we can see who is lying on here. If you'd really seen a bunch of ASR's revised, you'd know that they are NEVER well fixed. That CoCr Porocoat just doesn't seem to work on a cup and they always just tap out way easier than any Ti cup I've ever seen.

    With ASR the lawyers are most times doing the patient a favour as really about 50% will have problems and elevated ion levels by 7 years and its probably better some getting revised that don't need to be than thousands getting left that should be revised?

    It's right to say that the entire group of LARGE HEAD MoM's are having problems but Zimmer got lucky enough not to sell too many because the Durom cup sucked so bad, Stryker never really got rolling and even S&N didn't sell big heads much outside of resurfacing.

    It's DePuy and Biomet that sold hundreds of thousands of large head MoM without testing whether the shortened modern tapers could cope with the extra torque and lever arm moments of the big heads.

    They can't.........

    Biomet got lucky with Magnum cos the sleeve is Ti and that cold welds to the stem so there's no CoCr corrosion there.

    Their 38mm M2A is probably as bad as Pinnacle though.

    How bad is Pinnacle?

    Ask your man Paul Voorhorst. He presented data to the FDA that showed a 9.97% failure rate for MoM Pinnacle at 8 years and he was deluded enough to present that as "meeting benchmark."

    That was UK data and they are not infested with lawyers like we are so you can't blame that pressure. Also, lawyers havent really gotten their teeth into Pinnacle yet so these are real revisions for real reasons.

    Do you think 10% revision at 8 years is good? Maybe it is by DePuy 2012 standards but it sure as hell isn't what you tell your Docs they will get (and is not what they get if they use Pinnacle MoP).

    Nice to see that DePuy brainwashing working on ya though...........
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Be fair. The situation with ASR is entirely different to Pinnacle. ASR had 2 problems. The first was that the offset bore, shallow socket, low clearances and insertion rim were all design flaws that made sure small cups just couldn't work unless they were put in at less than 35 degrees of inclination.

    The 2nd was the inherent risk of a big CoCr head on a little taper.

    Pinnacle only has that 2nd problem. There is no design fail similar to the ASR situation.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Do you mean fair as in the same way all the patients who've received these implants have been treated? I wonder if they think this is fair.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    It's fair to say that about 97% of them never could have needed Metal on Metal hips in the first place.

    Was there ever the tiniest shred of evidence that a 36mm Metal couple was better than a 36mm on XLPE?

    Resurfacing in big men - fine (probably).

    Metal couples in anyone else? Pure profiteering and no one does profiteering quite like J&J.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    If you are saying that they are never well fixed then you are lying. You can argue about titanium versus cocr shells, but I have seen a lot of these ASRs that were well fixed. It's great you have your ASR story down but most of the surgeon in our region feel depuy handled the situation as best they could. There are some who feel let down and a lot of those have switched.

    Stryker just recalled their modular necks. Does that make Stryker a evil company for manufacturing this product?

    Zimmer had durum recall and issues with the low pro tibial bases. Does that make them a terrible company?

    Every company has issues from time to time. Just remember all the bashing you are doing to your surgeons when your company has a recall.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    How can you say that this was handled properly? Isnt this the same company who decided to manufacture and sell implants without FDA clearance and call them customs. Or did I dream that? Didn't the DePuy customs department get shut down? I think other Ortho companies are still making customs. Why's that? According to what I read there were internal people trying to stop the ASR because of the complaints out side the US where it was already being sold. Is that false? Now you're trying to say it was handled ethically? How does that kool Aid taste? Maybe you should read how this has affected the people who have or had the ASR. Ask how their medical bills were handled. Ask if they are happy with the way it was handled. I'm not 100% sure but I'm guessing the people most affected will disagree with you.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Nope - ASR shells just don't fix well. That is a plain FACT.

    Yup - Stryker were just about as bad with their modular necks and Beta TMZF stems without modular necks as DePuy were.

    Fact is that there is no evidence that modular necks help people and some evidence that they hurt them. The Australian data clearly (and I mean CLEARLY) shows that moduar necks are inferior to fixed (ironically through dislocation which modular necks are promoted to address!).

    Beta TMZF plain sucks in all its forms. They took a design concept that worked great in Taperloc and Triloc and put patients at risk with their B.S.

    Zimmer with Durom cups that didn't fix and M.I. trays that came loose? Yup - just as bad.

    Putting patients at risk again and again just to try to make a few more bucks and get a little more growth or market share.

    So does the fact that other companies put patients at risk with their trashy products somehow make you feel better about DePuy poisoning people with cobalt and chromium?

    I hope your money helps you sleep at night.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    So you think that it was depuy's intention to poison patients? I was making a few points.
    One- that all metal on metal implants are having issues with metal ions. So to imply that depuy somehow was all on their own in bringing a metal on metal implant to market is not being honest. To imply that they are the only one to bring a monoblock cup is not honest.
    Two- Depuy is not the only company to have a recall in recent history. Does this make it ok, no. You should however consider thatwhen slinging mud at depuy if you are working for a competitor.
    Three- Depuy is settling the cases and taking care of the medical bills for patients who wanted or needed them removed. Can you name another Ortho company who has done that for recalled implants. Is having to have a revision due to a failing implant anything something anyone wants, no. It's a terrible situation. Can you say how depuy should have better handled this recall?

    Also, to the poster who keeps saying that all ASR cups don't have in growth, you are an idiot. Are you saying that no monoblock cups have in-growth. They are all CoCr with some porous coating. Are you saying that it is only the ASR that doesn't have in growth?
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Man, you need to get a life.

    I work for DePuy unfortunately. I have to believe that DePuy is different in the fact that I believe there were technical people raising concerns on ASR and their voices were ignored.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I personally know a doc who voiced concerns for over 12 mos. he had quit using the implant at that time, and corp totally ignored him until the first letter came out (sent the area vp). Once the recall hit he quit using DePuy over night.

    Anyone who worked for DePuy during that time needs to remember the timeline of events surrounding not only the recall but also the "decision" to take it off the market due to economic reasons. They knew.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Also, to the poster who keeps saying that all ASR cups don't have in growth, you are an idiot. Are you saying that no monoblock cups have in-growth. They are all CoCr with some porous coating. Are you saying that it is only the ASR that doesn't have in growth?[/QUOTE]

    Not saying that no monoblock cups have ingrowth. BHR ingrows just fine.

    Durom doesn't and (fortunately cos it makes it easier to revise) ASR doesn't.
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Australia reported this probelm to JnJ, and then started reporting the failures in the annual joint registry. JnJ/Depuy refused to recognize until too late. Then the UK started seeing the failures. This is all factual .
    Then the leadership of Depuy bought Finsbury in the UK for 250M to allow them to sell the 'Adept" M/M since they knew what what happening to ASR. (Plus Finsbury gave them Delta Motion).
    Yes, all companies have unpredictable/unplanned failures...however the best most ethical companies recognize failures early and inform the market. JnJ has a history of 'delayed' announcements. Remember how long they took to admit poly failures with the PFC knee ??, or the Endurance stem failures....??
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    It's public knowledge that the Australian registry wrote to DePuy 17 times between 2006 and when ASR was recalled in August 2010.

    17 denials later, the truth caught up with the people who pretended ASR was being withdrawn for commercial reasons.

    What do you think the sales of ASR were when they decided to yank it for commercial reasons? Less than AML? Less than Summit cemented?

    Wonder why they weren't pulled for commercial reasons?

    I think we know the answer to that one.

    Please tell me no one is still selling Pinnacle MoM!
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Good post. Also to those that want to pretend that is was innocent on DePuys part. Why did FDA pay a surprise visit to DePuy and take over people's computers? What do you think they were looking for? Maybe the truth?
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    What was found on those computers? Are you automatically guilty if the gov searches you?