a new era

Discussion in 'Bayer Animal Health' started by Anonymous, Mar 31, 2011 at 12:53 AM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    How are we supposed to respond to our veterinary accounts when they ask us why Fosters and Smith and many other web sites now have Advantage and K9 Advantix for sale for for literally 2-3$'s per card more than vet list? Is it true that our OTC partners are getting pricing that is truly better than our vets whom we have had long standing relationships with are getting? Obviously we will not be able to hit our goals because our peers on the pet specialty side are literally ripping the vet channel away from us. I feel like such a loser when vets ask these questions. Actually most vets are not even asking. They are refusing to see me and have dumped our products for others they admit they would rather not have been forced to carry. They do not want anything to do with the Advantage brand at this point. Our products are in Walmart, Costco and anywhere else our now newfound pet specialty partners can divert them to. At least when they were diverted through the vet channel it was obvious which accounts were doing so. Our channel is so wide open that we have completely eliminated the margins and fostered a brand that leaves little room for profit by all those associated with it except Bayer. We all know that this is the end game for Bayer and now that we have chosen this path there is no turning back. We can kiss Multi and our vet brands goodbye. I and for one am job hunting even if it means Merial!
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    this is taken from a recent posting on the Merial board.....

    Originally Posted by Anonymous
    I'm a veterinarian and in my more than 30 years in practice I have watched the flea control market evolve. Most of my clients use Frontline Plus, and most of those purchase it from me. But that is changing and is getting ready to turn upside down. I can compete with the pet stores, they charge $20 per dose. We price ours a little below PetMeds both in hospital and through our web store. Costco is problematic, they are satisfied with a 4% margin, difficult to compete with that. But most clients understand that we can't compete with Costco. The real nail in the coffin will be a generic equivalent available in stores at a lower cost than I can purchase the brand name from the manufacturer.

    Unlike some of my colleagues I don't blame Merial. As long as it isn't illegal, EPA products are going to go otc. No way to stop it. No amount of tracking will stop it. It's the nature of the beast. It doesn't really matter to me if it is diverted or sold directly to the store. The effect on my practice is the same. The only company that has been disingenuous about it was Bayer. I called them a few weeks before they went public about selling their products direct to the pet stores and was told it was to "get a handle on the diversion problem." That's like screwing someone to get a handle on the pregnancy problem.

    In the short term I think veterinarians need to stick with FDA products and let the pet stores fight over the EPA market. Would I be interested in yet another EPA product like Vectra? No thanks. Reminds me of Hill's who has brought out several "veterinary exclusive" wellness pet foods. If sales don't boom they discontinue it, if we successfully build a market for the product they take it otc and sell it to pet stores at a price not available to veterinarians. I'm not interested in playing that game.

    Ultimately I think dispensing will be taken away from veterinarians altogether. I remember when many MD's had their own little pharmacy in their office, one stop shopping. The auto shop that did state inspections also did the repairs. No more, gone because of the perceived conflict of interest. Reminds me of a comment made to me by a retiring veterinarian on my first day on the job, only half in jest, "If you don't have the drugs to treat what you've diagnosed, diagnose something you do have the drugs to treat."
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Don't you all get it. We are not trying to control diversion, we are doing everything we can to take market share and grow our business.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    ...or do what Vectra just did- private label the product for the clinic- just did it for VCA - all 500 of their hospitals will now sell a private label Vectra3D for dogs- it will be their primary preferred F&T for dogs-

    won't be able to get THAT at Target!!
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I'm the vet who made the quoted post. I don't fault Bayer for taking its products OTC, that's what will happen to every EPA product that is successful. I do fault them for treating us like idiots with their ridiculous reasoning, "to get a handle on the diversion problem." I would note that this is not the first time Bayer treated the veterinarians with apparent disdain. I remember when Frontline came out Bayer refused to refund returned Advantage for eight months in an attempt to force veterinarians to sell what they had on their shelf before switching to Frontline. Me, I boxed up all my Bayer products and put them in a closet until that November, then sent the entire lot back for a refund. To this day I use as little of Bayer's products as I possibly can. The last time our Bayer rep dropped by she had her boss with her and asked me why I didn't carry Bayer products. I retold the story about Bayer's refusal to refund returned Advantage and she said, "We would never treat the veterinarians like that!" Her boss turned red, hemmed and hawed, and then told her that Bayer did indeed treat us like that.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Spot on again. I work with Ken Allen and the OTC team here is the standard contract pricing to Pet Specialty. Peter Ryan has authorized us to offer the following. 5% off list, 2% early pay, 2.5% carrying and displaying all 4 epa sku's, 5% trade/co-op funds. As far as returns we can accept up to 2% of what has been purchased per quarter, no questions asked, nor do they have to ship them back. The reason why I am coming forward is that I, as a Bayer team member see the division that is being fostered between not only our pet specialty and vet accounts but reps as well. We are being incentivized to take business away from our peers on the vet side and being given tools that by far surpass what Peter is giving Kirk and his team. The long term effect of this is clear as far our relationships with vets. I truly believe Peter knows this but does not care as he obviously is comfortable that even with the alienation of vets he will grow the brands with the pet specialty. So he clearly has no hope or nead for Multi and the other vet only brands we have as well.
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    ok. I am new here. I own a pet store, or chain of stores in the South East. I am trying to understand all of the frustration while building my own business. I have watched Vets double the price of Advantage and Frontline for the past 10yrs. you all have made plenty of dollars off of the consumer and should relax. First of all we do have a contract to buy your product very similar if not a little better to the one mentioned above. We are committed to growing this brand at our locations. We will beat the online prices and the local vets ridiculous prices and give the customer the fair price and value she is looking for. Bayer is committed as always to growing the product it has created. We are excited about using it as a draw to bring customers back to our retail locations. I am willing to sell it at 5% above what we buy it for to capture the market in our area. Can any of you vets give the same pledge?
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I don't carry Bayer products, but every single pet store in our area charges $59 for three doses of Frontline Plus. No problem competing with them at that "ridiculous" price.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    That is because the pet stores that carry Frontline have to get it through the grey market and they pay as much as 25-30% above vet list to get it due to Merial controlling the amount it lets out! That is why we are better off long term to support the brand that has to be diverted into the otc channel if we want to keep our margins up and stay competitive.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Me too. Later team.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Make a pledge? Why? There's nothing noble about underselling the market to capture the market. Might turn out to be good business, but it's not like you're feeding starving kids somewhere.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    there is nothing noble about overcharging clients and then complaining when you are losing business to those who buy and sell it right. Pet Specialty gives us the pet retailers the opportunity to make something out of the market the vets screwed up. Bayer is making the right move by giving pet stores the distribution of the brand. It also gives us the means to wholesale it out to those needing it at a more reasonable price so that the brand can grow.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Thanks for that great input Peter. However we all still think you suck.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    your will be capturing the market for Bayer, and at the end of the year wonder why you can't pay any bills at that margin.......\

    or you hit the magic 5% number which means your moving it sideways already
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    If I was your banker or your shareholder and I ever heard you state that you had no intention of ever getting a larger margin on flea/tick products than the 5% you've pledged, I would frantically look around for a better investment.

    My little animal hospital was an Advantage/Advantix stronghold until last year. I created many hundreds, maybe even thousands, of diehard Advantage and Advantix customers. My credentials and my credibility are what sold many of those. We did our job - we educated clients and we talked up the product. We sold the product - often spending considerable time explaining why we thought it was superior to Frontline and to the supermarket brands.

    We charged 7% less than whatever PetMeds was charging (so that even with sales tax, our prices matched theirs) - not that that's relevant to this point.

    I f*cking hated losing sales to PetMeds but I never blamed Bayer because I took Bayer's word that the culprit was the diverter and not the manufacturer.

    I was surprised that Summit seemed so good at keeping their product off the internet. And that Elanco's efforts - though seemingly less effective than Summit's, were at least effective enough at containing the grey market supply that PetMeds et al. couldn't compete with my Comfortis prices.

    But the corporate charade is over. I thank Bayer for that. I've moved on...fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... well you know. It's opened my eyes to lack of support from other companies as well - I'm a little more hesitant to start Previcox, or Dasuquin, or especially to go through the BS of the first few weeks of an Atopica regimen if I'm probably going to lose all subsequent sales to an online pharmacy. Novartis, Nutramax, Merial - take note.

    Regardless, I'm a Trifexis/Comfortis/Vectra3d/CatRevolution clinic now. We do our best to convert our Advantage and Advantix patients to whichever of those products are most suitable. If they insist on the Bayer product, we'll still sell it to them. But most of my former Bayer customers now happily go home with something else.

    Therein lies the dilemma for Bayer. They decided they didn't need vets actively selling their product anymore. I decided I wasn't going to bust my tail marketing their product just so that I could face stiffer competition than I would with equally good or better products.

    Both of us made business decisions. The only real losers are the reps. I miss our cheerful rep who I used to see every 3 weeks or so. Haven't seen her in 1/2 a year or more. Don't even know if she's still with the company.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Its called market share, Take Trifexis Comfortis Vectra3D and Cat revolution and there market share combined does not equal the market share that one Bayer product has let alone that of Frontline. Demand drives OTC get a clue
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    No it doesn't. You just made that up. There are plenty of popular products in high demand that have maintained their exclusivity and whose manufacturers have taken aggressive action to protect that exclusivity.

    Bayer made a corporate decision. They decided that they could penetrate or at least maintain more of the market if their product was somewhat cheaper and available through non clinical sources. They knew that in doing so they were sacrificing much of their support and marketing through the veterinary community.

    That was their right. If I was one of their informed shareholders I might have been pleased with their boldness. But it impacted my business in a negative way and has made me unsupportive of their product line. My business means nothing to them, but if another 10k clinic owners feel the same it might prove consequential for them

    Only time will tell.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "doctor", have you looked at peelers lately? Your trifexis, comforts, vectra are all online just like every other product. All you've done is confuse your clients by switching products every two years and most likely lost them to another vet who sticks with a product and excepts to make a little less and actually practice medicine to make up the difference. Good luck and just retire.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Peelers? Explain please.

    And you're right, just checked and to my surprise, Trifexis is now on PetMeds. The price is much higher than I sell it for. Obviously not an easy product for them to acquire. I bet they're going to have a spotty inventory at best.

    And Vectra is nowhere to be found. Looks like the bloodhound tracking is very effective when a company wants to enforce its stated distribution channels. Apparently cutting off diverters is adequate though the first company that actually sues a diverter for punitive damages will immediately reap some goodwill among the veterinary community - but I digress.

    BTW my client retention is excellent. Thanks for the concern.
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Doc you get market share reports????????????? did not think so. Anyway give some expamles of the products you are talking about, think first though what are we talking about here I will start Vectra under a 2% market share nation wide