Is the AZ co-pro dead?

I heard a rumor last week that we may end the deal with AZ, ramp up more sales people and go it alone on Abraxane? Did you hear this and will it work?

Hell yes it would work! Other than cash, that company has provided absolutely nothing. Copromotions do not increase share of voice as many offices will only allow x number of visits per company per year. And they lump AZ and AO together. Many of the AZ reps would invite the hormonal rep into their lunches, dinner events, and displays which means we've been paying for marketing their drugs. AZ knows nothing about IV chemotherapy, reimbursement, etc. and we have wasted tremendous time and effort educating them. They have been a constant roadblock to progress. It is assinine that we cannot allow our reps to use Gradishar, with training on limitations on what can be discussed, because of AZ rules, AZ history with litigation, and AZ big pharma, dinosaur, afraid of their own shadow mentality. We cannot be a small, independent, agressive, innovative biotech with this anchor on the company.

Companies need a larger partner for copromotions IF and only if that larger company has market expertise that the small company does not have. This is not the case with AZ. Nothing is added except red tape and headaches.

Abraxane is on the map due to the AZ. AZ legtimizes AO. Prior to AZ joint venture you could certainly say more about Abraxane but the liability was extreme. AO needs to re-visit the Pharma guidelines.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Abraxane is on the map due to the AZ. AZ legtimizes AO. Prior to AZ joint venture you could certainly say more about Abraxane but the liability was extreme. AO needs to re-visit the Pharma guidelines.

FUCK THE PHARMA GUIDELINES! I GO MY OWN WAY BITCH!

Keep it up buster and you will be out of a job. Compliance is key to our business. Follow the rule sor get out I dont want to be dragged under by your foolish sales methods, I have a pension to worry about

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Abraxane is on the map due to the AZ. AZ legtimizes AO. Prior to AZ joint venture you could certainly say more about Abraxane but the liability was extreme. AO needs to re-visit the Pharma guidelines.

Yeah, Abraxane is on the map due to AZ. It has nothing to do with compendia or SABCS. The liability was far from extreme, which you would know if you had any experience with chemotherapy.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Keep it up buster and you will be out of a job. Compliance is key to our business. Follow the rule sor get out I dont want to be dragged under by your foolish sales methods, I have a pension to worry about

A pension? Compliance worries and constant concern about to the point of inaction? Yep - AZ.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Abraxane is on the map due to the AZ. AZ legtimizes AO. Prior to AZ joint venture you could certainly say more about Abraxane but the liability was extreme. AO needs to re-visit the Pharma guidelines.

Really? Tell me one thing AZ did that legitimizes AO or what was done to put Abraxane on the map? I don't see one damned thing.

Time, experience with Abraxane, evolving data, compendia listings - THAT is what legitimized Abraxane. In chemotherpay, a company name or history means NOTHING. Thank goodness, or AZ's awful reputation would have sunk us for certain.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Yeah, Abraxane is on the map due to AZ. It has nothing to do with compendia or SABCS. The liability was far from extreme, which you would know if you had any experience with chemotherapy.

Many of you are fools to discount the role AZ has made in getting Abraxane on track. I hate many things about Big Pharma. as much as the next guy. However I also know that unlike Abraxis's traditional culture where there was no accountability or collective sales force work ethic, AZ requires its reps. to get out and actually have discussions with customers on a regular basis.

When I first got on territory, I was disappointed to find out my AO counterpart hadn't even seen some customers in 4-5 months. Many of you like to fancy yourselves elite "biotech" reps but the reality all of your alleged knowledge and skills mean nothing anyway if you just assume that two conversations a year with your customers is going to get it done. If you guys go it alone, your management better wake up and force some of you to get off your asses and get out and work or ABraxane will be right back where it was before the copromote started.

No way AZ lets Abraxis out of the co-promote.
If anything, AZ executed the agreement to prepare for an acquisition.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Abraxane is on the map due to the AZ. AZ legtimizes AO. Prior to AZ joint venture you could certainly say more about Abraxane but the liability was extreme. AO needs to re-visit the Pharma guidelines.

Although AZ compliance is a bit nazi-like, AO was a backward, bumblfuck of a company when we got involved with you. AZ may not be fantastic, but we have upgraded the AO systems and will probably keep you guys out of jail. We may not move a quick as you like, but we'll do it in a way that will sell more abraxane than you guys could ever have done on your own!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Although AZ compliance is a bit nazi-like, AO was a backward, bumblfuck of a company when we got involved with you. AZ may not be fantastic, but we have upgraded the AO systems and will probably keep you guys out of jail. We may not move a quick as you like, but we'll do it in a way that will sell more abraxane than you guys could ever have done on your own!

Complete and total bullshit, and once again, generalities instead on one specific example of ANYTHING that AZ has added. Because we don't have a policy for how to breathe and a tracking system of calls we were backward. AZ is what those of us at AO left many years ago. If we wanted to work for big pharma and the mentality of handcuffing the sales team, we would have stayed with big pharma. You have no idea how backward and useless all of your controls are.

Name ONE AO system you have 'upgraded' and one way the almighty AZ has helped us be less backward. There is no other company so guided by fear and misinformation than AZ. There is no other company in oncology who is so backward and unknowledgeable about the market and standards of evidence. There is not one other company who knows less about what oncologists want from us and why they talk to some reps and not others. Perhaps you could do some misguided market research in those areas. Your company and the reps that work there are complete losers. If they had any backbone, intelligence, insight, or worth, they would work somewhere else. Yes, AZ knows all, and every other company you have ever done a copro with are stupid and backward. What is most frightening is you have no idea how far off base you are.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Many of you are fools to discount the role AZ has made in getting Abraxane on track. I hate many things about Big Pharma. as much as the next guy. However I also know that unlike Abraxis's traditional culture where there was no accountability or collective sales force work ethic, AZ requires its reps. to get out and actually have discussions with customers on a regular basis.

When I first got on territory, I was disappointed to find out my AO counterpart hadn't even seen some customers in 4-5 months. Many of you like to fancy yourselves elite "biotech" reps but the reality all of your alleged knowledge and skills mean nothing anyway if you just assume that two conversations a year with your customers is going to get it done. If you guys go it alone, your management better wake up and force some of you to get off your asses and get out and work or ABraxane will be right back where it was before the copromote started.

Hate to break it to ya....but reading a glossy sales piece to a doctor doesn't make for a discussion.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Hate to break it to ya....but reading a glossy sales piece to a doctor doesn't make for a discussion.

And reporting calls on targets in a computer isn't productivity.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

And reporting calls on targets in a computer isn't productivity.

Right. You guys were really tearing it up with Abraxane back when you had no call accountabillty or reporting. Most of you seemed to be working 2nd and 3rd jobs if the level of effort I saw initially was any indication.

I don't like matrixes and call reporting any more than you guys but the reality is your own Patrick wrote into the contract the AZ had to deliver at least 4 calls a day. Since that was the expected of AZ, AZ obviously expected the same of AO. How else are you going to have any gauge of those sort of terms? Maybe you should look at your own management the next time you complain about all this stuff and remember AZ reps. didn't have any choice in choosing you guys as partners either.

All your whiny, negative atttitudes do is make a situation none of us has direct control over worse. Either learn to work together and make the most of it or take your whiny, lazy ass somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Right. You guys were really tearing it up with Abraxane back when you had no call accountabillty or reporting. Most of you seemed to be working 2nd and 3rd jobs if the level of effort I saw initially was any indication.

I don't like matrixes and call reporting any more than you guys but the reality is your own Patrick wrote into the contract the AZ had to deliver at least 4 calls a day. Since that was the expected of AZ, AZ obviously expected the same of AO. How else are you going to have any gauge of those sort of terms? Maybe you should look at your own management the next time you complain about all this stuff and remember AZ reps. didn't have any choice in choosing you guys as partners either.

All your whiny, negative atttitudes do is make a situation none of us has direct control over worse. Either learn to work together and make the most of it or take your whiny, lazy ass somewhere else.

I agree with one of your comments. We cannot blame the AZ reps for the faults of management. That said...you are truely clueless if you think that "4 calls" by you guys have made a difference with this drug. There is ALWAYS a learning curve and just time necessary to get these docs to move. Time and experience, not "checking a call box" has made the difference.

Time, experience, and developing data.

No one who has been in the industry longer than a year, who isn't totally brainwashed by big pharma, believes calls reported in the computer have any relation to actual calls. And computer listed calls have no relation to sales.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Keep it up buster and you will be out of a job. Compliance is key to our business. Follow the rule sor get out I dont want to be dragged under by your foolish sales methods, I have a pension to worry about

Wasn't it you boy from AZ that got canned for saying and doing the wrong things that got to the media? Yes, AZ really has help keep us clean.

Don't fuck with me man! Is there any truth in this? Any possibility? Damned, you've got my hopes up.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Don't fuck with me man! Is there any truth in this? Any possibility? Damned, you've got my hopes up.

Sorry to burst your bubble but we signed a 5 yr agreement that is just 1 year gone. AZ lawers would take us ( all of Patrick'$) to the cleaners if we tried to get out early.
Don't think we can do it.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Sorry to burst your bubble but we signed a 5 yr agreement that is just 1 year gone. AZ lawers would take us ( all of Patrick'$) to the cleaners if we tried to get out early.
Don't think we can do it.

Quite a shame. It would be one hell of a celebration if this mess was over.

OMG! this drug was flat before az joined. how ungrateful can you get!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

OMG! this drug was flat before az joined. how ungrateful can you get!!!!!!!!!!

Are you referring to the sales growth that happened following the addition of first line metastatic to compendia, the growth that happened after the phase II head to head with Taxotere, or the incredibly flat sales that we've experienced the last 9 months with good ole' AZ at work? You can try to claim credit for the increases that had NOTHING to do with AZ or take blame for the flat sales now too. But wait! AZ is having sales meetings and will renergize everyone to drive sales growth through the rest of the year. Or will we see growth because of the new compendia listing?

Two years done of ridiculous red tape, endless meetings, and more bureacracy than you can imagine. It's hard to believe there are almost three years left. It will be one hell of a party once this is over! Remove the handcuffs and let us get to work!

I have to concur with the AZ reps here. If the level of effort most of you elite reps put into your jobs is any indication, there was a reason Abraxane was in the shitter until AZ came on board. Regardless of how many "compendia listings" (you can't talk about), etc. you have now or will in the future, if you don't get off your butts and get out in front of your customers regularly, sales of Abraxane will not follow.

Abraxane is a very promotion sensitive drug. It is never going to be a drug that sells (see Herceptin, Avastin, Gleevec, etc.) itself no matter how many indications and compendia listings it has. There is just too much long term data with cheaper and effective taxanes like Taxol & Taxotere.

I'm not saying 4 calls a day is the way to ensure this happens. In the case of Abraxis, however, some sort of accountability has to be in place otherwise the majority of you wouldn't do a damn thing other then spend your day calling each other and bitching about what your boss has done to screw you over this week.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

otherwise the majority of you wouldn't do a damn thing other then spend your day calling each other and bitching about what your boss has done to screw you over this week.

If you worked for this CEO and company you would understand.

AZ loves to take credit for the sales growth but ignore the flat line from the past nine months and take no responsibility for it.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Many of you are fools to discount the role AZ has made in getting Abraxane on track. I hate many things about Big Pharma. as much as the next guy. However I also know that unlike Abraxis's traditional culture where there was no accountability or collective sales force work ethic, AZ requires its reps. to get out and actually have discussions with customers on a regular basis.

When I first got on territory, I was disappointed to find out my AO counterpart hadn't even seen some customers in 4-5 months. Many of you like to fancy yourselves elite "biotech" reps but the reality all of your alleged knowledge and skills mean nothing anyway if you just assume that two conversations a year with your customers is going to get it done. If you guys go it alone, your management better wake up and force some of you to get off your asses and get out and work or ABraxane will be right back where it was before the copromote started.

AZ requires you to have regular discussions about what? Where the nurses got their new pair of shoes, what they are doing this weekend, what sports your kids are playing and what time they will be at happy hour this Friday...? Oh - I cannot forget that AZ allows you to wine and dine but not attend anything educational...wouldn't want you primary care folks having to think...

Hate to break it to you AZ...your folks aint working...NICE TRY THOUGH - my accounts tell me countless times...hey, where's your partner been? I state - The library of course reading what all them big words mean...

Thanks again for the help - help making us look good and PROVE that it requires a brain to promote a chemo agent...THANKS AGAIN AZ - YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Many of you are fools to discount the role AZ has made in getting Abraxane on track. I hate many things about Big Pharma. as much as the next guy. However I also know that unlike Abraxis's traditional culture where there was no accountability or collective sales force work ethic, AZ requires its reps. to get out and actually have discussions with customers on a regular basis.

When I first got on territory, I was disappointed to find out my AO counterpart hadn't even seen some customers in 4-5 months. Many of you like to fancy yourselves elite "biotech" reps but the reality all of your alleged knowledge and skills mean nothing anyway if you just assume that two conversations a year with your customers is going to get it done. If you guys go it alone, your management better wake up and force some of you to get off your asses and get out and work or ABraxane will be right back where it was before the copromote started.

AZ requires you to have regular discussions about what? Where the nurses got their new pair of shoes, what they are doing this weekend, what sports your kids are playing and what time they will be at happy hour this Friday...? Oh - I cannot forget that AZ allows you to wine and dine but not attend anything educational...wouldn't want you primary care folks having to think...

Hate to break it to you...you folks aint working...NICE TRY - my accounts tell me countless times...hey, where's your partner been? I state - The library of course reading what all them big words mean...

Thanks again for the help - help making us look good and PROVE that it requires a brain to promote a chemo agent...THANKS AGAIN AZ - YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Hate to break it to ya....but reading a glossy sales piece to a doctor doesn't make for a discussion.

AZ requires you to have regular discussions about what? Where the nurses got their new pair of shoes, what they are doing this weekend, what sports your kids are playing and what time they will be at happy hour this Friday...? Oh - I cannot forget that AZ allows you to wine and dine but not attend anything educational...wouldn't want you primary care folks having to think...

Hate to break it to you...you folks aint working...NICE TRY - my accounts tell me countless times...hey, where's your partner been? I state - The library of course reading what all them big words mean...

Thanks again for the help - help making us look good and PROVE that it requires a brain to promote a chemo agent...THANKS AGAIN AZ - YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Time, experience, and developing data.

No one who has been in the industry longer than a year, who isn't totally brainwashed by big pharma, believes calls reported in the computer have any relation to actual calls. And computer listed calls have no relation to sales.

I think what was said was that the AO rep hadn't been seen by the customer, not that there were no calls entered in the system.

This is like a mating of cats and dogs.

At the field level, some of the partnership works and some don't. It depends on the personalities of the reps. The pissers and moaners on this bitch board are more apt to complain about the small stuff, and would be the ones more apt to dismiss their counterparts. If you think that your counterpart is hurting sales, then perhaps you should work differently. The wise rep works his/her territory as if they were without partner.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

At the field level, some of the partnership works and some don't. It depends on the personalities of the reps. The pissers and moaners on this bitch board are more apt to complain about the small stuff, and would be the ones more apt to dismiss their counterparts. If you think that your counterpart is hurting sales, then perhaps you should work differently. The wise rep works his/her territory as if they were without partner.

I agree. Even with prior companies, I could care less if the partner is good or bad---or what their work ethic is. I just worry about myself. I have never had luck having a great partner except once in my career---so I just work the territory as if I were the only rep there. All this partnering is for the birds.

co-pro stronger than ever! 2009 will be the year of the partnership! you fools who have not worke dit our w/ your partners will be screwed!

co-pros don't work when the AO mgrs tell their reps not to work with their AZ partner

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I heard a rumor last week that we may end the deal with AZ, ramp up more sales people and go it alone on Abraxane? Did you hear this and will it work?

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/081124/abii8-k.html

Form 8-K for ABRAXIS BIOSCIENCE, INC.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24-Nov-2008

Entry into a Material Definitive Agreement



Item 1.01 Entry Into a Material Definitive Agreement.
On November 19, 2008, Abraxis BioScience, LLC ("Abraxis"), the wholly-owned operating subsidiary of Abraxis BioScience, Inc. ("Registrant"), entered into an agreement (the "Agreement") with AstraZeneca UK Limited ("AstraZeneca") under which, subject to the satisfaction of the terms and conditions thereof, Abraxis would re-acquire exclusive rights to market ABRAXANE � in the United States.

Under the Agreement, the Co-Promotion and Strategic Marketing Services Agreement between Abraxis and AstraZeneca (the "Co-Promotion Agreement") will end effective on the date between January 1, 2009 and January 5, 2009 on which the board of directors of Registrant may approve ending the Co-Promotion Agreement and notice thereof has been timely received by AstraZeneca. If Registrant's board of directors so approves ending the Co-Promotion Agreement, then Abraxis will pay AstraZeneca a $268 million fee. If Registrant's board of directors does not so approve, then the Co-Promotion Agreement will continue with an amended 50% commission.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Form 8-K for ABRAXIS BIOSCIENCE, INC.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24-Nov-2008

Entry into a Material Definitive Agreement



Item 1.01 Entry Into a Material Definitive Agreement.
On November 19, 2008, Abraxis BioScience, LLC ("Abraxis"), the wholly-owned operating subsidiary of Abraxis BioScience, Inc. ("Registrant"), entered into an agreement (the "Agreement") with AstraZeneca UK Limited ("AstraZeneca") under which, subject to the satisfaction of the terms and conditions thereof, Abraxis would re-acquire exclusive rights to market ABRAXANE � in the United States.

Under the Agreement, the Co-Promotion and Strategic Marketing Services Agreement between Abraxis and AstraZeneca (the "Co-Promotion Agreement") will end effective on the date between January 1, 2009 and January 5, 2009 on which the board of directors of Registrant may approve ending the Co-Promotion Agreement and notice thereof has been timely received by AstraZeneca. If Registrant's board of directors so approves ending the Co-Promotion Agreement, then Abraxis will pay AstraZeneca a $268 million fee. If Registrant's board of directors does not so approve, then the Co-Promotion Agreement will continue with an amended 50% commission.

So, does this jobs mean our jobs will be getting better or worse? Is a chance of a buyout better. The Taxol, Taxotere fight is tough, and docs are getting to where they don't even want to listen to our lame story anymore.

loosin market share for meta brca is tough to swallow. must be the neuropathy. ABX is just another taxane... this isnt PC. develop a drug that's diff.... other than more neuropathy.