Doctors Revolt

The growing rebellion against an army of reps. What are your thoughts on this?

just typical left wing media during an election year....... people want companies to fail in the US........PLus if it was that easy for my doctor to be persuading I would be winning every year. I need to start handing out more pens and steak dinners. WOW..IF i only knew

Pharma reps are a waste of time and resources. Doctors are right to say enough already.

We can be replaced with a ups driver they seem to get back while we wait for hrs Ha!!!!!

That's because after ATS the only reps left are idiots and whores.

Bottomline big pharma has forgotten what is important to our customers. Instead we worry about what those outside of the healthcare industry thinks. This is the only sales position that restricts the way the sales force interacts with customers. Once valued for our knowledge of our products and competitors now reduced to being the butt of everyones jokes. Wake up senior mgmt we have it in our control to turn this ship around

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Bottomline big pharma has forgotten what is important to our customers. Instead we worry about what those outside of the healthcare industry thinks. This is the only sales position that restricts the way the sales force interacts with customers. Once valued for our knowledge of our products and competitors now reduced to being the butt of everyones jokes. Wake up senior mgmt we have it in our control to turn this ship around

so true - worried more about what "people think" than doing their fucking jobs (making shareholders money)!!!

wake up - we live in America NOT China!!!

ever heard of Capitalism???

You don't see Bill Gates handcuffing his people and going around apologizing to everyone!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The growing rebellion against an army of reps. What are your thoughts on this?

they need to talk about something right - that is their job - hype everything up

next, doctors will revolt against their fat-assed, lazy, discipline lacking patients with weak minds and negative attitudes who don't want to lift a finger (work) because for some reason they have a sense of entitlement

Originally Posted by Anonymous

they need to talk about something right - that is their job - hype everything up

next, doctors will revolt against their fat-assed, lazy, discipline lacking patients with weak minds and negative attitudes who don't want to lift a finger (work) because for some reason they have a sense of entitlement

There are 2 types of patients

1) Those who want to get better

2) Those that don't and want either disability or a settlement check

People talk about all the money that trial lawyers cost the medical system, but they also cost the country billions by encouraging behaviors such as #2.

Shakespeare had the right idea.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The growing rebellion against an army of reps. What are your thoughts on this?

There is more than than 1 attorney per doctor.
The congress , senate , executive branchs both state & federal
probably have more than 500 Lobbyists per politician.
Doctors never bitched when they were getting outlandish spiffs
from Pharma so Eff them & besides by the end of 08 ther will
probably be only 70K reps @ the rate every company is laying off.

Besides this liberal propaganda hatchet job , airing on a ultra liberal
network with dysmal ratings will be about as accurate as sales reports
are , which is to say not very.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

There is more than than 1 attorney per doctor.
The congress , senate , executive branchs both state & federal
probably have more than 500 Lobbyists per politician.
Doctors never bitched when they were getting outlandish spiffs
from Pharma so Eff them & besides by the end of 08 ther will
probably be only 70K reps @ the rate every company is laying off.

Besides this liberal propaganda hatchet job , airing on a ultra liberal
network with dysmal ratings will be about as accurate as sales reports
are , which is to say not very.

Oh and 70,00 is not too many?
You are why pharma is failing....answer the question ping-pong boy.
The only person more worthless than todays pharma rep is their manager.
No one needs you in a doctors office.
Todays pharm rep is yesterdays cheerleader willing to spread her legs for the business. Pfizer knows who they are and Pfizer will have to answer WHY they have been hired or allowed to keep their jobs. What about the managers who are aware of the behavior, shouldn't they be fired too?
Interesting how they cannot be fired because management is so dirty that they are AFRAID that "their" dirty secrets will also be told.
If you write Lipitor on your breast , ass , thigh or tongue, you get points for teamwork in this company.
I wonder if CNN would like to know about that?
My family is full of docs and they all agree Pfizer has taken a nose dive.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Oh and 70,00 is not too many?
You are why pharma is failing....answer the question ping-pong boy.
The only person more worthless than todays pharma rep is their manager.
No one needs you in a doctors office.
Todays pharm rep is yesterdays cheerleader willing to spread her legs for the business. Pfizer knows who they are and Pfizer will have to answer WHY they have been hired or allowed to keep their jobs. What about the managers who are aware of the behavior, shouldn't they be fired too?
Interesting how they cannot be fired because management is so dirty that they are AFRAID that "their" dirty secrets will also be told.
If you write Lipitor on your breast , ass , thigh or tongue, you get points for teamwork in this company.
I wonder if CNN would like to know about that?
My family is full of docs and they all agree Pfizer has taken a nose dive.

Do tell...what other things have reps "done for the business"???

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Oh and 70,00 is not too many?
My family is full of docs and they all agree Pfizer has taken a nose dive.

Doctors , in particular , PCP's lash out because insurance has
squeezed any appeal & financial reward the profession used to have.

So let a few malcontent docs rant & rave about too many reps.

They'll soon be displaced by the tens of thousands of docs from china & india that will happily work for 50K a year. Think of it as reverse outsourcing.

I agree with you the managers are usless. By & large the reps are hard working & trying to make a living , paying more than fair share of taxes
so some welfare douchebag like you can sit on your subsidized ass & bitch.

Its the rapid sprint toward socialism that is killing this business.

Drug companies have no desire to fight the trend. They stupidly think that they can manage socialism for profit. Socialism will help kill off any small competitors but it will eventually kill off the entire industry.

There is a relatively small but vocal number of activist doctors that shame and protest and criticize their peers that either don't mind or even enjoy interactions with drug reps.

I worked in a city territory where these activist docs have the most influence. They go for the big win by getting major academic accounts to close their doors to samples, pens and reps. Then they work on their affiliates. They announce to the local media how they are morally superior because of their stance. Then community docs feel peer pressured into closing their doors to reps.

In my more suburban and rural accounts, without the heavy influence of an activist academic institution, they are still very open to reps.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Its the rapid sprint toward socialism that is killing this business.

Drug companies have no desire to fight the trend. They stupidly think that they can manage socialism for profit. Socialism will help kill off any small competitors but it will eventually kill off the entire industry.

There is a relatively small but vocal number of activist doctors that shame and protest and criticize their peers that either don't mind or even enjoy interactions with drug reps.

I worked in a city territory where these activist docs have the most influence. They go for the big win by getting major academic accounts to close their doors to samples, pens and reps. Then they work on their affiliates. They announce to the local media how they are morally superior because of their stance. Then community docs feel peer pressured into closing their doors to reps.

In my more suburban and rural accounts, without the heavy influence of an activist academic institution, they are still very open to reps.

You are an idiot. Want to know what is wrong with this industry? Look in the mirror. Nazis have been gone a long time a-hole. Nobody wants them back. Your complete lack of empathy and arrogance are what killed pfizer!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

so true - worried more about what "people think" than doing their fucking jobs (making shareholders money)!!!

wake up - we live in America NOT China!!!

ever heard of Capitalism???

You don't see Bill Gates handcuffing his people and going around apologizing to everyone!

well said

right

socialized medicine is going to have a positive impact on your life - just ask Princess Di

The Pfizer model will change just like all the other companies. This business model is broken and it does not meet the needs of doctors or patients. The industry will downsize over 60% over the next several years. The number of institutions and practices that allow representatives to leave samples will be less than 25%. If you don't think so look at the % of generics dispensed to brand and what the projections are for the next 3 years. The gravy train is over. The trick will be not to be the last one out the door. Have the guts, it was the easiest money around know it is time to move on.

You all make interesting points. Its unfortunate that big pharmas spend so much time trying to screw over each other rather than getting together and working out how to keep this industry moving in the right direction.and focus on the needs of the customer. Everyother industry does it. The pharma guideline is a joke. And so true look at the amount of generics being written versus branded agents. Celebrex is in an extremely price sensitive market and doesn't budge on price nor does mgmt give us proper info that justifies its use rather than another only more info and emphasis placed on defending the cv risks again for the 3rd yr. More info that mds don't care about. This job is more about getting sigs and leaving samples than strategic selling. And tell me why I sell in a territory with 4 other phrs that was once a 2 man/woman job. What a disgrace! War doctors shutting down, war unneeded detail pieces, war mgmt too scared to cowboy up and make changes as the world passes us by. I'm out

Originally Posted by Anonymous

You all make interesting points. Its unfortunate that big pharmas spend so much time trying to screw over each other rather than getting together and working out how to keep this industry moving in the right direction.and focus on the needs of the customer. Everyother industry does it. The pharma guideline is a joke. And so true look at the amount of generics being written versus branded agents. Celebrex is in an extremely price sensitive market and doesn't budge on price nor does mgmt give us proper info that justifies its use rather than another only more info and emphasis placed on defending the cv risks again for the 3rd yr. More info that mds don't care about. This job is more about getting sigs and leaving samples than strategic selling. And tell me why I sell in a territory with 4 other phrs that was once a 2 man/woman job. What a disgrace! War doctors shutting down, war unneeded detail pieces, war mgmt too scared to cowboy up and make changes as the world passes us by. I'm out

didn't know Jim Rome worked for Pfizer - get your own identity - you make many good points though

I don't think he is taking romies identity bc war is something the clones say. Thanks for the laugh #20. I have the same problem in my territory

Originally Posted by Anonymous

socialized medicine is going to have a positive impact on your life - just ask Princess Di

Some form of socialized medicine will be here in 2009, either fully blown Universal Healthcare or a hybrid public-private partnership. There will be around 80,000 "Detailers" in January 2008, down from close to 100,000 in Jan 2007. Within 18 months this number will be around 10,000, less if centralized purchasing for States is part of UH.

Along with these reps will go the whole industry built around entertaining Doctors, booking the best restaurants and paying selected doctors thousands of dollars for a few minutes of slide shows between the Filet Mignon and the Ice Cream. Those excesses are finally being restricted, but once the Sky Boxes, Golf Outings, Pop Concert seats, Golf Clubs and expensive presents dried up, so did the need for reps with no medical training.

Bottom line: As long as there are new drugs being developed and approved, then there will be sales reps. In general, new drugs are only prescribed when there is significant human-to-human promotion/marketing/education. I've yet to see a primary care doctor (or most specialists for that matter) take the personal time to learn about newly approved drugs. Emailing, "e-detailing", fax blasts, and other alternative forms of product promotion are useless.

Since pharma spends upwards of 1 billion to take a drug to market, can they (and their shareholders) afford to rely on hope and trust that doctors will take the initiative to learn about a new drug? That would be a resounding NO. Because of managed care, they simply do not have time.

Will there be a reduction in the number of reps and further limitations in doctor access and promotion. Most definitely.

But keep this in mind:
A sales force creates the revenue required to fuel company growth, support R&D efforts, and increase shareholder value. This is a basic MBA premise that is unarguable. And this is why drug reps will never go away.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Bottom line: As long as there are new drugs being developed and approved, then there will be sales reps. In general, new drugs are only prescribed when there is significant human-to-human promotion/marketing/education. I've yet to see a primary care doctor (or most specialists for that matter) take the personal time to learn about newly approved drugs. Emailing, "e-detailing", fax blasts, and other alternative forms of product promotion are useless.

Since pharma spends upwards of 1 billion to take a drug to market, can they (and their shareholders) afford to rely on hope and trust that doctors will take the initiative to learn about a new drug? That would be a resounding NO. Because of managed care, they simply do not have time.

Will there be a reduction in the number of reps and further limitations in doctor access and promotion. Most definitely.

But keep this in mind:
A sales force creates the revenue required to fuel company growth, support R&D efforts, and increase shareholder value. This is a basic MBA premise that is unarguable. And this is why drug reps will never go away.

What is your favorite flavor of Kool-Aid? May I suggest that you cut back to 1 glass a day. Reps will be needed but in numbers like in Europe or Japan. If you were smart you would live within your means and save as much as possible, your going to need it when us stock holders demand ROI and the highest cost to Pfizer is their sales force-buy buy, can't wait for the other shoe to drop

Why do you think companies are spending millions of dollars developing new methods to reach physicians ? They know this model was great for the past but is over for the future. Physicians do not make medical decisions based on robotic messages from talking heads. The most unbelievable fact is that people think things will not change.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The growing rebellion against an army of reps. What are your thoughts on this?

You think that's bad, wait until you see the REBELLION against the universal health care system. They'll be getting reimbursed less than a buck a visit to see the same hypocondriac (sp?) patients every week. Eventually, they will become a private practice and only see patients who are willing to pay them a high annual fee for exclusive care. That will create a massive divide between rich and poor, with the poor getting second rate care and waiting for appointments FOREVER!

I think you dumbasses have just been suckered in by the same AP reporter who tried to get you to tell him this stuff directly. Give it a different title, ask the same questions and the dumbasses will spill their guts. Well done. Salute to the AP reporter! You were too pussy to talk with him directly. Absolutely no guts in this company anymore!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I don't think he is taking romies identity bc war is something the clones say. Thanks for the laugh #20. I have the same problem in my territory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftk3DSGTgNI

WAR This

Most reps provide no value to the customer because they are only trained in marketing, not science. Managers only alienate the staff from the reps due to their overbearing tactics, and should be banned from the offices.
If it is necessary to utilize reps to deliver samples, at least have them trained in science and demand that they offer both the positive and negative attributes of the products. Physicians need to be reminded when NOT to use a particular drug as which patient types may benefit from the compound.
Only one rep per company, please, with once a month visits.
Physicians, PLEASE LIMIT VISITS TO ONE PER MONTH PER PRODUCT! THE FOCUS SHOULD NOT BE SALES/GREED/PROFIT BUT RATHER PATIENTS!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Most reps provide no value to the customer because they are only trained in marketing, not science. Managers only alienate the staff from the reps due to their overbearing tactics, and should be banned from the offices.
If it is necessary to utilize reps to deliver samples, at least have them trained in science and demand that they offer both the positive and negative attributes of the products. Physicians need to be reminded when NOT to use a particular drug as which patient types may benefit from the compound.
Only one rep per company, please, with once a month visits.
Physicians, PLEASE LIMIT VISITS TO ONE PER MONTH PER PRODUCT! THE FOCUS SHOULD NOT BE SALES/GREED/PROFIT BUT RATHER PATIENTS!!!

BEST POST EVER!!! PFIZER HAS FORGOTTEN THIS!!! THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEADING THE WAY WITH THIS PHILOSOPHY! SALUTE!!!

I totally agree with the previous post. However, this company is now run by HR, Marketing, and Legal. HR is worried about either getting employees fired without creating a lawsuit, Marketing is full of people who sold soap a year ago and think that showing commericals and giving away coupons drives market share (I will admit that it might), and Legal is too busy defending Pfizer from the 300,000 lawsuits pending.

We used to bring value to the offices not just food and stupid giveaways (premiums). We used to share data that helped doctors make the right choice for their patients. We got the business because we presented a reasonable, logical reason to use our products. We did very well during bonus time because the company valued us and got the data right.

I think that each of us need to get back to what made this company great. Put the patient first. Setting your sights on a VPC or a big bonus check will only lead to dissappointment. Until Pfizer proves that they can get the data right those things are nothing short of a crap shoot. However, when you hear from a doctor that someone is doing well on your product say thank you and know that you made a difference.

I have read enough post of this site to know that these comments will be followed by dim witted, slow, bitter people making what they think are clever posts. I don't know if those post come from acutal Pfizer reps or people outside of the company. If they are from inside, then I submit that while Pfizer does have it's problems your attitude is making it worse. There are plenty of reasons to complain, but you can choose to focus on the positive. Try to help a patient on your next call and maybe this job will mean something too you again.

Well said. This has turned into the greatest thread on the forum!

I watched the segment on CNBC. It sucked - a total non-story.

The host of the segment was a complete tool (nice hair bro - you've got the looks for RADIO!) Dude probably got half a dozen wedgies a day when he was in school.

The topic is tired and old and your show sucked ass!

Here's a topic for you - fat, lazy Americans that just want to sit on their fat asses and get free hand-outs

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Most reps provide no value to the customer because they are only trained in marketing, not science. Managers only alienate the staff from the reps due to their overbearing tactics, and should be banned from the offices.
If it is necessary to utilize reps to deliver samples, at least have them trained in science and demand that they offer both the positive and negative attributes of the products. Physicians need to be reminded when NOT to use a particular drug as which patient types may benefit from the compound.
Only one rep per company, please, with once a month visits.
Physicians, PLEASE LIMIT VISITS TO ONE PER MONTH PER PRODUCT! THE FOCUS SHOULD NOT BE SALES/GREED/PROFIT BUT RATHER PATIENTS!!!

Absolutely! However the word Pfizer and Greed have the same meaning in the doctors eyes.

It is so wasteful to have more than one rep sell a product.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I watched the segment on CNBC. It sucked - a total non-story.

The host of the segment was a complete tool (nice hair bro - you've got the looks for RADIO!) Dude probably got half a dozen wedgies a day when he was in school.

The topic is tired and old and your show sucked ass!

Here's a topic for you - fat, lazy Americans that just want to sit on their fat asses and get free hand-outs

YOU ARE IGNORANT. That David Faber is a top prof from Columbia business school and anchor on Squawk box. Get an education.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Oh and 70,00 is not too many?
You are why pharma is failing....answer the question ping-pong boy.
The only person more worthless than todays pharma rep is their manager.
No one needs you in a doctors office.
Todays pharm rep is yesterdays cheerleader willing to spread her legs for the business. Pfizer knows who they are and Pfizer will have to answer WHY they have been hired or allowed to keep their jobs. What about the managers who are aware of the behavior, shouldn't they be fired too?
Interesting how they cannot be fired because management is so dirty that they are AFRAID that "their" dirty secrets will also be told.
If you write Lipitor on your breast , ass , thigh or tongue, you get points for teamwork in this company.
I wonder if CNN would like to know about that?
My family is full of docs and they all agree Pfizer has taken a nose dive.

Hmmmm....I guess Pfizer fired the wrong people during ATS if the company has taken a nose dive...I'm glad I took my $90,000 severance and left the industry. I make just as much money now and I don't have to deal with Doctors, Managers, Compliance, or any of their shit!!!