ENHANCE - VYTORIN is a placebo!

http://www.forbes.com/home/healthcar...9schering.html

actually, Zetia is no better than placebo when added to simva 80; or Vytorin 10/80 is no better than simva 80 would be the correct interpretation.

read the article nitwit. They are looking at plaque reduction vs. zocor not ldl or questioning if zetia works. you're an ass. go die a horrible death. and go fuck yourself this holiday season.

dickhead.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

read the article nitwit. They are looking at plaque reduction vs. zocor not ldl or questioning if zetia works. you're an ass. go die a horrible death. and go fuck yourself this holiday season.

dickhead.

Easy there champ! Don't take yourself so seriously. Did I hear someone say "chemical imbalance"?

Then try this other one....

http://www.theledger.com/article/200.../1001/BUSINESS

AND.....

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_7535587


Watch in 2008 a $3 billion drug fall to less than $500 Million - massive layoffs and stock plumments to around $8-10 per share - loads of shareholder lawsuits.........aren't you glad that the results of these trials are useless!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

AND.....

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_7535587


Watch in 2008 a $3 billion drug fall to less than $500 Million - massive layoffs and stock plumments to around $8-10 per share - loads of shareholder lawsuits.........aren't you glad that the results of these trials are useless!

Wow, you must have a fucking crystal ball!!

No, but I've had Crystal on my balls!

But hey, I may be a profit.....get it,,,, huh, get it?!!!





Cool, my image verification is BJ1ASS!!

Vytorin is crap!

This news is a BIG problem! SP looks like it's deceiving the FDA, physicians and patients! Sometimes thing don't go right and ENHANCE looks like one of those times. Let's just get it over with. The trial is a failure!

Astra released serogate outcomes that were not favorable, but is there really any question that Crestor does not cave lives? Is there really any doubt that Vytorin/Zetia Does the same? no. One trial does not mean that much. we are all fine, and Vytorin/Zetia will continue. Possibly not at the rate that we had hoped. Remember. the trial is blinded to us. There is an independant monitering service that will looks at the data while it is going on. if there was something wrong, it would have been out by now. Remember tocetrapib? That, too, was blinded untill pfizer pulled it.

....... start laughing at spelling and gramer now.

O.K. Let's start with the assumption that lower LDL is better. How do you get there? The Zocor component had solid outcomes. Zetia does not, and based on its mechanism of action there is a reason to queston if Zetia adds to the outcomes. It would seem that it does not, based on Enhance. Imagine for a moment taking a drug that does not impact morbidity or mortality, but in fact lowers ldl 15%-18%. Where is the data to sugget a direct link to outcomes? Can someone show me data to support outcomes with this "class" of drug -Zetia- vs statins with 20 some years of data? I think Zetia has something to prove. The industry seems to have bought into, "lower is better" regardless of how we get there. Did'nt we recently learn that higher HDL at any means resulted in higher deaths and a failed attempt at at a new agent ?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

O.K. Let's start with the assumption that lower LDL is better. How do you get there? The Zocor component had solid outcomes. Zetia does not, and based on its mechanism of action there is a reason to queston if Zetia adds to the outcomes. It would seem that it does not, based on Enhance. Imagine for a moment taking a drug that does not impact morbidity or mortality, but in fact lowers ldl 15%-18%. Where is the data to sugget a direct link to outcomes? Can someone show me data to support outcomes with this "class" of drug -Zetia- vs statins with 20 some years of data? I think Zetia has something to prove. The industry seems to have bought into, "lower is better" regardless of how we get there. Did'nt we recently learn that higher HDL at any means resulted in higher deaths and a failed attempt at at a new agent ?

If indeed Zetia does not provide an "outcome benefit", how long will it take insurance companies to recognize this and limit their payments for Zetia?

Good point about insurance coverage, I hate to sound like a nut, but, I still want to see the science that says that any method of ldl reduction results in better endpoint. Consider how many "pulled" drugs insurance has paid for. The sytem supports whatever the FDA allows, and relies on aftermarket ARES data base info for safety info. The insurance companies clearly look at the "cost to benefit ratios", and yes they are loath to pay for much of anything. Given all of that, where's zetias end point?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Good point about insurance coverage, I hate to sound like a nut, but, I still want to see the science that says that any method of ldl reduction results in better endpoint. Consider how many "pulled" drugs insurance has paid for. The sytem supports whatever the FDA allows, and relies on aftermarket ARES data base info for safety info. The insurance companies clearly look at the "cost to benefit ratios", and yes they are loath to pay for much of anything. Given all of that, where's zetias end point?

Unfortunately you do sound like a nut. Regardless of the outcome of ENHANCE feel free to check with the recent white paper of the NCEP Guidelines to see the science of LDL reduction resulting in a better endpoint. Over 60,000 patient's worth of data (all statins--Lipitor, Zocor, Pravachol, etc.) were included in the analysis. The result: LOWER IS BETTER. Regardless of what happens with ENHANCE, the Zocor component still has well established (read: better than any other statin) CV outcomes so you LOSE nothing with Vytorin. As for what you have to gain with the addition of Zetia, let's wait and see a true CV outcome trial (IMPROVE-IT or others) has to say. Does anyone truly hold a carotid IMT trial to be the gold standard of CV outcomes? Mevacor had them in their label for crying out loud. I didn't think so...

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Unfortunately you do sound like a nut. Regardless of the outcome of ENHANCE feel free to check with the recent white paper of the NCEP Guidelines to see the science of LDL reduction resulting in a better endpoint. Over 60,000 patient's worth of data (all statins--Lipitor, Zocor, Pravachol, etc.) were included in the analysis. The result: LOWER IS BETTER. Regardless of what happens with ENHANCE, the Zocor component still has well established (read: better than any other statin) CV outcomes so you LOSE nothing with Vytorin. As for what you have to gain with the addition of Zetia, let's wait and see a true CV outcome trial (IMPROVE-IT or others) has to say. Does anyone truly hold a carotid IMT trial to be the gold standard of CV outcomes? Mevacor had them in their label for crying out loud. I didn't think so...

I agree that the handling of the Enhance trial has been poor. But there is a ton of evidence that supports lower is better. With and without statins. There is a ton of evidence that would make sense that Zetia is a great drug for improving outcomes. However, I do have a problem with the company giving marching orders to overmedicate a PT. Until there are some benefit shown that a PT with no history of CVD benefits from an LDL of 70, I have a prob with selling Vytorin/Zetia for all PT. Cardiac PT… OK But Kevin, not necessarily (Plough example). If the company is going to D&*k around with the data, lower the objectives so we can at least make some $ for our potential lies.

One day the truth is going to come out that C-Reactive Protein and Homocysteine have more to do with heart attack than cholesterol.

There is no evidence ANY of you drugs do shit for heart attack.

I don't know why I am even posting a scientific comment on a SP board since you tools sold Claritin ( a high science sell if there ever was one - NOT) but here goes:
1) Imaging trials don't matter look at Mevacor
--true enough, surrogate markers are poor indicators of CV outcomes but when you are trying to prove your agent belongs in the CLASS EFFECT argument it sure would be nice if you had the same effect as the rest of the CLASS. Mevacor is a statin, and it has Primary Endpoint data (AFCAPS).
The question here is not does the Simvastatin component have any benefit -- of course it does (well proven) -- its whether adding a cholesterol absorption drug has any ADDITIONAL benefit other than added cost and side effects. And yes my friend, Zetia does have side effects.
2)Crestor had imaging trials that failed to reach primary endpoint but Dr's still accept that it will reduce CV events.
-- well that remains to be seen after their weak imaging trial results vs. PLACEBO and now there ONLY CV outcomes trial VS. PLACEBO being a failure how much more will these Docs take on that safety risk agent? Only time will tell but they also have the benefit of being a STATIN and riding that class effect train.
3) NCEP guidelines state lower is better.
-- most of the NCEP data is from STATIN trials, not all - but most convincing data at least. When you look at other methods the picture gets murky, illeal bypass (POSCH) took a LOOOOONG time to show benefit, only 1 Fibrate gemfibrozil (VA Hit) has any worthwhile data, cholestyramine (LRC Trial) took a LOOOOOOONG time to benefit. Bottom line question is "does Zetia's method of lowering compare to medium to high dose statin in terms of CV benefit?". Looking at (LRC Trial) & (POSCH) trial for similar mechanisms of action one might suspect that Zetia will take a lOOOONG time to benefit as well.
4) Generic Zocor has hammered Lipitor market share, if adding Zetia does not result in greater benefit then WHY add it?
-IMPROVE It might answer the question but it is a trial designed to go until 2011 and may go the distance b/c Zocor 40mg is a worthy opponent, should patients be put on "low statin" + Zetia for 4 more years without knowing the benfits when there is loads of data showing medium to high dose statin is the way to go -- If Tolerated.

You can donate $10 to a charity on my behalf for the lesson in cholesterol that you all so desperately need.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I agree that the handling of the Enhance trial has been poor. But there is a ton of evidence that supports lower is better. With and without statins. There is a ton of evidence that would make sense that Zetia is a great drug for improving outcomes. However, I do have a problem with the company giving marching orders to overmedicate a PT. Until there are some benefit shown that a PT with no history of CVD benefits from an LDL of 70, I have a prob with selling Vytorin/Zetia for all PT. Cardiac PT… OK But Kevin, not necessarily (Plough example). If the company is going to D&*k around with the data, lower the objectives so we can at least make some $ for our potential lies.

Actaully, there is not a TON of evidence suggesting anything that lowers LDL results in better CV outcomes:
HRT = lower LDL, higher HDL, WORSE CV outcomes.
Cardura = lower LDL, higher HDL, lower TG's, WORSE CV outcomes
Torcetrapib CETP inhibitor = lower LDL, VASTLY higher HDL, WORSE CV outcomes
Avandia / Actos = higher HDL, WORSE CV outcomes (jury out on ACTOS)

In fact MOST of the data is really with statins and genetic prediposition toward better lipid panel (ie. excersize improved results).

I just wonder if your marketing message "lower the statin dose & lower the side effects" isn't doing harm to patients because the proof really lies in the higher the statin dose the greater the benefit. If you guys were preaching "give the patient the highest dose they can tolerate then add Zetia if necessary" it would be more credible.
And hey, I could give a shit which "high" dose statin is used but don't try to act like 20mg of Zocor +zetia is the same as giving them 20mg of Crestor or 40mg of Lipitor b/c YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW. Its a guess and not looking like one that is going to pan out.

Knock, Knock! It's Congress calling. SP is in big trouble. Stock is down. Trust is lost. So much for business integrity. They should stand for business hypocrisy! The proverbial sh&*%t is about to hit the fan!!!!

[quote=Anonymous;2056775]I don't know why I am even posting a scientific comment on a SP board since you tools sold Claritin ( a high science sell if there ever was one - NOT) but here goes:
1) Imaging trials don't matter look at Mevacor
--true enough, surrogate markers are poor indicators of CV outcomes but when you are trying to prove your agent belongs in the CLASS EFFECT argument it sure would be nice if you had the same effect as the rest of the CLASS. Mevacor is a statin, and it has Primary Endpoint data (AFCAPS).
The question here is not does the Simvastatin component have any benefit -- of course it does (well proven) -- its whether adding a cholesterol absorption drug has any ADDITIONAL benefit other than added cost and side effects. And yes my friend, Zetia does have side effects.
2)Crestor had imaging trials that failed to reach primary endpoint but Dr's still accept that it will reduce CV events.
-- well that remains to be seen after their weak imaging trial results vs. PLACEBO and now there ONLY CV outcomes trial VS. PLACEBO being a failure how much more will these Docs take on that safety risk agent? Only time will tell but they also have the benefit of being a STATIN and riding that class effect train.
3) NCEP guidelines state lower is better.
-- most of the NCEP data is from STATIN trials, not all - but most convincing data at least. When you look at other methods the picture gets murky, illeal bypass (POSCH) took a LOOOOONG time to show benefit, only 1 Fibrate gemfibrozil (VA Hit) has any worthwhile data, cholestyramine (LRC Trial) took a LOOOOOOONG time to benefit. Bottom line question is "does Zetia's method of lowering compare to medium to high dose statin in terms of CV benefit?". Looking at (LRC Trial) & (POSCH) trial for similar mechanisms of action one might suspect that Zetia will take a lOOOONG time to benefit as well.
4) Generic Zocor has hammered Lipitor market share, if adding Zetia does not result in greater benefit then WHY add it?
-IMPROVE It might answer the question but it is a trial designed to go until 2011 and may go the distance b/c Zocor 40mg is a worthy opponent, should patients be put on "low statin" + Zetia for 4 more years without knowing the benfits when there is loads of data showing medium to high dose statin is the way to go -- If Tolerated.

You can donate $10 to a charity on my behalf for the lesson in cholesterol that you all so desperately need.[/QUO

How long has it been since saying "not" after a statement was cool? I think it was around the early 90's after "Wayne's World".

I love this ewww, Schering Stock is going down ewww, job lay offs. These guys think Scheing is a one hit drug wonder. The news is portraying it unfavorably, but truth be told the drug will still prevail. All I got to say to the "SCHERING HATERS" is wait til early next year when Schering launches a multi billion dollar drug, that will prove beneficial to many cardio patients throughout the world.

Love ya guys. If you gotta be a hater, better on cafe Pharma where you have no name or face, instead of going toe to toe with a Schering rep in front of the docs. I know if ya spreading fear and lies on line, you must not be making it in the eyes of the docs.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I agree that the handling of the Enhance trial has been poor. But there is a ton of evidence that supports lower is better. With and without statins. There is a ton of evidence that would make sense that Zetia is a great drug for improving outcomes. However, I do have a problem with the company giving marching orders to overmedicate a PT. Until there are some benefit shown that a PT with no history of CVD benefits from an LDL of 70, I have a prob with selling Vytorin/Zetia for all PT. Cardiac PT… OK But Kevin, not necessarily (Plough example). If the company is going to D&*k around with the data, lower the objectives so we can at least make some $ for our potential lies.

you were saying.....? Nissen just fu*#ked you

What trail did crestor fail? You better check your data. By the way Wytorin is dead. You can just use generic zocor. The game is between Lipitor, Crestor and Generic. See ya wytorin!

Lower is better but I think it is the HOW and the WHAT TYPE that really matters.

If you lower large LDL and don't lower small LDL does it matter?

If you raise small HDL and lower large LDL does it matter?

If you just lower LDL and raise HDL does it matter?

The answer is we all really have no clue! We just pretend to in the interest of meeting our quotas and hope that what we "think" we know doesn't cost a patient more than a $20 co-pay (and prevents a trip to the ER).

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I don't know why I am even posting a scientific comment on a SP board since you tools sold Claritin ( a high science sell if there ever was one - NOT) but here goes:
1) Imaging trials don't matter look at Mevacor
--true enough, surrogate markers are poor indicators of CV outcomes but when you are trying to prove your agent belongs in the CLASS EFFECT argument it sure would be nice if you had the same effect as the rest of the CLASS. Mevacor is a statin, and it has Primary Endpoint data (AFCAPS).
The question here is not does the Simvastatin component have any benefit -- of course it does (well proven) -- its whether adding a cholesterol absorption drug has any ADDITIONAL benefit other than added cost and side effects. And yes my friend, Zetia does have side effects.
2)Crestor had imaging trials that failed to reach primary endpoint but Dr's still accept that it will reduce CV events.
-- well that remains to be seen after their weak imaging trial results vs. PLACEBO and now there ONLY CV outcomes trial VS. PLACEBO being a failure how much more will these Docs take on that safety risk agent? Only time will tell but they also have the benefit of being a STATIN and riding that class effect train.
3) NCEP guidelines state lower is better.
-- most of the NCEP data is from STATIN trials, not all - but most convincing data at least. When you look at other methods the picture gets murky, illeal bypass (POSCH) took a LOOOOONG time to show benefit, only 1 Fibrate gemfibrozil (VA Hit) has any worthwhile data, cholestyramine (LRC Trial) took a LOOOOOOONG time to benefit. Bottom line question is "does Zetia's method of lowering compare to medium to high dose statin in terms of CV benefit?". Looking at (LRC Trial) & (POSCH) trial for similar mechanisms of action one might suspect that Zetia will take a lOOOONG time to benefit as well.
4) Generic Zocor has hammered Lipitor market share, if adding Zetia does not result in greater benefit then WHY add it?
-IMPROVE It might answer the question but it is a trial designed to go until 2011 and may go the distance b/c Zocor 40mg is a worthy opponent, should patients be put on "low statin" + Zetia for 4 more years without knowing the benfits when there is loads of data showing medium to high dose statin is the way to go -- If Tolerated.

You can donate $10 to a charity on my behalf for the lesson in cholesterol that you all so desperately need.

yeah, your so good you left out the best outcome trials to date as well as two trials that has positive IMT results. BTW, only two chol. drugs have regression indications. Take your 10.00 and go to the library and next time, try to keep up.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

yeah, your so good you left out the best outcome trials to date as well as two trials that has positive IMT results. BTW, only two chol. drugs have regression indications. Take your 10.00 and go to the library and next time, try to keep up.

Regression doesn't mean squat. Way back at the beginning of the statin wars, Mevacor showed a bit of regression in a trial, but resulted in NO reduction in CV events. Matter of fact, they did a bunch of trials that showed no event reduction, despite fairly large lipid reductions.

Crap, if you want event reduction, take either Lipitor or generic pravastatin.

in my humble opinion the study faled becasue no one ha smade the trouble to look lipid sub fraction data for ezetemibe mono therapy. It reduces Hdl across its sub populations and all the reduction in ldl is in the larger particles not the the atherogenic small dense ones, there is a study showing this effect in FH patients specifically and thats why it has no effect on atherosclerosis. BTW if it has no effect in atheroscloris in FH and its unlikely to be of benifit in much lower risk populations like those in Improve IT

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Regression doesn't mean squat. Way back at the beginning of the statin wars, Mevacor showed a bit of regression in a trial, but resulted in NO reduction in CV events. Matter of fact, they did a bunch of trials that showed no event reduction, despite fairly large lipid reductions.

Crap, if you want event reduction, take either Lipitor or generic pravastatin.

Oh junior, try to keep up. If your would do your homework you would see that regression in two studies (Hats, Fats) led to event reduction of over 70%, not 36% max reduction with Lipitor. I will cut you a break since you are new. It is your statin only mindset that allows 64% of patients in this world continue to have event # 2. It is because of studies like these that Merck sees the potential $$$ in pursuit of the medication, and soon enough, will be out there talking regression. Regression, in your book, doesn't mean squat because you were never taught any different, and therefore, never learned the data. You would be oh so fun to sell against.

lescol xl baby, back in business!

Vytorin is not a placebo, Zetia is! Generic simvastatin is just fine! Ezetimibe is the loser in this one. Also, the stock price is off 30% since carrie Cox sold.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

yeah, your so good you left out the best outcome trials to date as well as two trials that has positive IMT results. BTW, only two chol. drugs have regression indications. Take your 10.00 and go to the library and next time, try to keep up.

NO STATINS HAVE REGRESSION INDICATIONS!!! and if you say Crestor does you are dumber than the guy that hired you!!

Asses...You think patient scare about a 0.1 this or a 34.2 percent that. Patients care that the medical leaders from their communities and major insurance providers are not impressed with the results. Period. If past performance holds true your docs will take the path of least resistance and not fight their patients when they resist a vytorin scrip. After all, primary care and internal medicine get paid to pack in the patient visits these days, no time to haggle with the elderly!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

NO STATINS HAVE REGRESSION INDICATIONS!!! and if you say Crestor does you are dumber than the guy that hired you!!

I said cholesterol drugs, not statins. Try to keep up junior......LOL, you are looking dumber with each post.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

NO STATINS HAVE REGRESSION INDICATIONS!!! and if you say Crestor does you are dumber than the guy that hired you!!

Lescol indicated to slow the build up of cholesterol in the arteries of the heart. Check the PI.

Latest on CBS News website is that Carrie Cox will be investigated by Congress for her shameless act of selling off tons of Schering-Plough stock at over $30/share in the Spring of 2007. Looks like a lot of the other "leaders" sold as well - Cheeley, saunders, sabatino, koestler. Crooks all!! Now that's good for our reputation. The company that now has all the crooked management from Pharmacia. led by none other than Fast Freddie Hassan.

slowing the PROGRESSION of athero is not the same as regression - no statin has the indication for regression.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

slowing the PROGRESSION of athero is not the same as regression - no statin has the indication for regression.

May be a silly question, but what is all this talk about ASAP and Lipitor v. Simva back in 2001? Did Lipitor have regression or not? From what I understand Lipitor was far superior in the end, but did it actually reverse the build up.

Please help.

Unfortunately for SP, in the ASAP study, Lipitor (atorvastatin) regressed atherosclerosis in the same HeFH population that ezetimibe failed to show any effect in during the ENHANCE trial. So much for the very, very small unusual select population with very high cholesterol levels that isn't typical for the general population and nothing works in..

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Unfortunately for SP, in the ASAP study, Lipitor (atorvastatin) regressed atherosclerosis in the same HeFH population that ezetimibe failed to show any effect in during the ENHANCE trial. So much for the very, very small unusual select population with very high cholesterol levels that isn't typical for the general population and nothing works in..

I guess Freddie the Spin Doctor just assumes we are all asses and can't figure out the lies. The crap about a rare population blah blah blah ...

So if you can't help the really sick, what about the other 98% of us losers that don't have a genetic disorder?

I can feel my arteries clogging ....

Originally Posted by Anonymous

O.K. Let's start with the assumption that lower LDL is better. How do you get there? The Zocor component had solid outcomes. Zetia does not, and based on its mechanism of action there is a reason to queston if Zetia adds to the outcomes. It would seem that it does not, based on Enhance. Imagine for a moment taking a drug that does not impact morbidity or mortality, but in fact lowers ldl 15%-18%. Where is the data to sugget a direct link to outcomes? Can someone show me data to support outcomes with this "class" of drug -Zetia- vs statins with 20 some years of data? I think Zetia has something to prove. The industry seems to have bought into, "lower is better" regardless of how we get there. Did'nt we recently learn that higher HDL at any means resulted in higher deaths and a failed attempt at at a new agent ?

Are you kidding me. Higher HDL the better!!!! There are seven trials that show raising HDL and Lowering LDL shows 70-90% event reduction. There are also 3 trials showing Plaque regression over 2 year period when HDL is raised. Get out of the stone age, why do you think Pfizer spent 800,000,000 on an HDL drug GET A CLUE!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Unfortunately for SP, in the ASAP study, Lipitor (atorvastatin) regressed atherosclerosis in the same HeFH population that ezetimibe failed to show any effect in during the ENHANCE trial. So much for the very, very small unusual select population with very high cholesterol levels that isn't typical for the general population and nothing works in..

Except the carotid baselines were about 0.9 in the lipitor study and and unfortunately in ENHANCE only 0.67...almost 30% difference. Very likely this had an impact...these patients were already very well treated over a long period of time...80% on statins.

My apologies to Schering employees and shareholders. I worked at Pharmacia where Fred Hassan ran it into the ground. The amount of unethical questionable behavior I saw there was unbelievable. When Fred turned down the #2 spot at Pfizer for Schering, I knew Schering was going to be in for scandalous. 5 years later, here we are with Vytorin. Tell me when Fred came in did things go from bad to even worse?

WOW

Originally Posted by Anonymous

My apologies to Schering employees and shareholders. I worked at Pharmacia where Fred Hassan ran it into the ground. The amount of unethical questionable behavior I saw there was unbelievable. When Fred turned down the #2 spot at Pfizer for Schering, I knew Schering was going to be in for scandalous. 5 years later, here we are with Vytorin. Tell me when Fred came in did things go from bad to even worse?

Could you tell us more? I heard he devastated Pharmacia employees by moving the headquarters, and then everything went south.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Except the carotid baselines were about 0.9 in the lipitor study and and unfortunately in ENHANCE only 0.67...almost 30% difference. Very likely this had an impact...these patients were already very well treated over a long period of time...80% on statins.

who cares....zetia doesn't work, period, end of story...in fact it may be worse!!

I work for another Pharma Co. and let me tell you this makes our entire industry look disgusting. It makes me want to puke. We are out there doing what we think is best for patients and the guys pulling the strings are playing with peoples lives and lying to us - no wonder everyone hates this industry. I am starting to think we should go back to treating people with leeches and whisky.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

who cares....zetia doesn't work, period, end of story...in fact it may be worse!!

S

Stay in the shallow end of the IQ pool dude....keep listening to Katie..or maybe the new oprah channel

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Are you kidding me. Higher HDL the better!!!! There are seven trials that show raising HDL and Lowering LDL shows 70-90% event reduction. There are also 3 trials showing Plaque regression over 2 year period when HDL is raised. Get out of the stone age, why do you think Pfizer spent 800,000,000 on an HDL drug GET A CLUE!!!

Sorry you misunderstood my HDL comment. Certainly HDL improvement is a huge factor in outcomes. My point, which I think is becomming more evident, is that how you get there is what matters. There is data to support that the combination of decreased LDL, combined with increased HDL, is in fact what leads to regression, look up the asteroid trial. Yes, I said regression.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

actually, Zetia is no better than placebo when added to simva 80; or Vytorin 10/80 is no better than simva 80 would be the correct interpretation.

You, are the man, you called it correctly. I added the comment that Zetia had something to prove. The guy that predicted Schering stock would go south was also correct. I bought Schering puts over a week ago. There seems to be a number of contributers that need to do some homework. Thank you all......