Embarrassed to be in pharma

I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.

Pharma is self destructing.

Been in this business 20+ years, and I have felt these drug ads are horrible. Any company that would drop the ads and say they were going to use the advertising cost savings to lower prices on some key drugs would get such incredible positive press it would be unbelievable. Unfortunately and sadly, none of the major companies will have the stones to do this.......if one finally does then all the others will follow suit and say "look at how great we are".

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.

"fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV "

Yes, Pfizer,Lilly, and Bayer should be really proud of themselves. They have one of the best huckster S & M teams around.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05162008/watch2.html

I dont blame you for being embarrased. I spent a short time at a contract pharma co. I recently went on an interview for a dental sales position. The manager was impressed with all my experience until he got to "the pharma thing" Anyone with any real sales exp. knows what a joke this job is. I was a headhunter prior to the pharma thing. He wanted to know why I left recruiting to do pharma. He basically told me that pharma reps were sample droppers. etc. Thank God I have other experience I feel bad for all you people who have never done anything else! Its tough explaing this assinied job to anyone who really knows sales. Yes its ten times easier than being a recruiter but it's a boring ass job.

There are worse things than being a pharma rep. Think about it. You are not selling beer, cigarettes, things to hurt people. Who cares what people think. If you are really trying to make a difference out there, are you really doing something wrong? Your perception is based upon what you want it to be. If you are ashamed, fine, change your line of work you will be better off..but there are a lot worse things that you can be doing.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

There are worse things than being a pharma rep. Think about it. You are not selling beer, cigarettes, things to hurt people. Who cares what people think. If you are really trying to make a difference out there, are you really doing something wrong? Your perception is based upon what you want it to be. If you are ashamed, fine, change your line of work you will be better off..but there are a lot worse things that you can be doing.

You got to be kidding me, right? Drugs don't hurt anyone? You live in a quite delusional pharma world.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

There are worse things than being a pharma rep. Think about it. You are not selling beer, cigarettes, things to hurt people. Who cares what people think. If you are really trying to make a difference out there, are you really doing something wrong? Your perception is based upon what you want it to be. If you are ashamed, fine, change your line of work you will be better off..but there are a lot worse things that you can be doing.

"You are not selling beer, cigarettes, things to hurt people. Who cares what people think."

You have to be kidding. Have you ever read how many people drugs kill per year? Have you ever heard a doc complain about patients coming in and demanding a drug they do not need because they saw some huckster ad on TV?

Doctors don't like the ads because then they have to stop and actually answer patient questions. There are times they have to act like they actually know anything about the products and why it is not right for the particular patient. As a consumer, I fully support DTP advertising.

There's a new allergy medicine out that doesn't make you sleepy? How would I know except for the ads? I've noted that I have severe seasonal allergies in my chart, but don't take anything for it because the old stuff knocked me out cold. Do you think my doc is going to read through my chart each time I come in for my yearly exam and will suggest the new med? No way, unless I complain again or suggest the med myself. Look, I understand docs are busier due to payers limiting payments, etc. But at the end of the day, I pay the doc to take care of me. It is my right and responsibility to be an informed consumer. I also respect if he suggests a different med or no med. But don't limit my sources of information and don't act like a consumer is insulting the doc by asking questions.

We know more about the cars we buy then the medicines we put in our bodies.

...so read the medical letter. it is unbiased not like Big Pharma. was at DC meeting of aCP last week. They touted benazepril/amolidipine combo (generic lotrel) "it takes a billion to develop a drug?!" but not to COMBINE and double the price!!

[Vagitarian]

20 something years ago when I signed on, a friend of a friend had just declared bankruptcy as a Real Estate agent. I was happy to have this job

Two years ago, the same guy was making $300K to 400K per yr as a Real Estate agent. I thought this job sucked and wished I was an Real Estate agent.

Today, I'm happy to have this job and glad I'm not a Real Estate agent.

It's kind of like that story about the tortoise and the hare.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.

Here is another reason to be embarrassed-an ex Ketchup salesman leads a drug company:

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/...g?mod=yahoo_hs

Originally Posted by Vagitarian

20 something years ago when I signed on, a friend of a friend had just declared bankruptcy as a Real Estate agent. I was happy to have this job

Two years ago, the same guy was making $300K to 400K per yr as a Real Estate agent. I thought this job sucked and wished I was an Real Estate agent.

Today, I'm happy to have this job and glad I'm not a Real Estate agent.

It's kind of like that story about the tortoise and the hare.

Yeah, just think he made more in 5 years as a real estate agent than you will make in 15 years as a pharma rep.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Here is another reason to be embarrassed-an ex Ketchup salesman leads a drug company:

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/...g?mod=yahoo_hs

At least he has more training in healthcare than a rental car salesman (isn,t Ketchup a health food) lol,lol?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.

Merck adds to embarrassment, but at least its not a sleazy ED ad:

Pharmaceutical giant Merck & Co. has agreed to pay Connecticut $1.35 million for deceptive marketing of its former drug Vioxx and has agreed to federal oversight of television advertising for all its medications, Attorney General Richard Blumenthal announced Tuesday.

The payout to Connecticut is part of a $58 million settlement to be divided among 29 states and the District of Columbia.

”Merck's overly aggressive early ad campaign for Vioxx misled doctors and consumers, prompting heavy use before deadly side effects emerged,” Blumenthal said in a statement. “As a result, hundreds of thousands of consumers rushed to the drug before its dangers were fully understood, leaving them at increased risk of heart attack and stroke.”

”Aggressive marketing techniques, combined with deceptive use of scientific data, are not in patients' best interests,” added Jerry Farrell Jr., the state's consumer protection commissioner

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Merck adds to embarrassment, but at least its not a sleazy ED ad:

Pharmaceutical giant Merck & Co. has agreed to pay Connecticut $1.35 million for deceptive marketing of its former drug Vioxx and has agreed to federal oversight of television advertising for all its medications, Attorney General Richard Blumenthal announced Tuesday.

The payout to Connecticut is part of a $58 million settlement to be divided among 29 states and the District of Columbia.

”Merck's overly aggressive early ad campaign for Vioxx misled doctors and consumers, prompting heavy use before deadly side effects emerged,” Blumenthal said in a statement. “As a result, hundreds of thousands of consumers rushed to the drug before its dangers were fully understood, leaving them at increased risk of heart attack and stroke.”

”Aggressive marketing techniques, combined with deceptive use of scientific data, are not in patients' best interests,” added Jerry Farrell Jr., the state's consumer protection commissioner

I was just in an office waiting room and the sleaze mongers from Pfizer were blasting their "Vivas Las Viagra' crap on the evening news. Everyone who was watching grabbed a mag and pretended to be reading. These low lifes have always been low lifed.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

At least he has more training in healthcare than a rental car salesman (isn,t Ketchup a health food) lol,lol?

what is wiyh the knock on rental car salesman. these people from rent a wreck have the same degrees as people in pharma. Also most of them had to have high enough gpa's as well or else they would have not gotten hired.

When people say pharmaceutical sales that is what this is "SALES" not R&D ...if it were R&D then I could see people ripping on rental car salesman.

SO, whats next after pharma sales...I am so over it and having a hard time getting out. I could even afford to take a pay cut. Any "success stories"??? Any ideas on whats next for us!!!!

and I agree, we are kind of the laughing stock...I feel like a cocktail waitress of pills. To think I have a science education!

If you can afford a pay cut then why is it so hard to get out? Find something that you have an interest in and go. Start a business if you have the stomach for it. No one can tell you what industry to go into because if you are not doing something you love (or at least like) you are going to end up as miserable as you are right now....

I hope that eventually I will get out..something will come along. I have applied to a lot of positions at hospitals and at the medical school hospital where I live. I would love to do research or monitor trials. I think my resume is getting passed over because they see what I do now and do not think I would be happy making less money. Ya know everyone who is not in pharma or never has been thinks having a pharma sales job is like the holy grail or something and why would you want to leave. If I can actually ever get in front of someone I am sure I can "sale" then on why I want to leave....!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I hope that eventually I will get out..something will come along. I have applied to a lot of positions at hospitals and at the medical school hospital where I live. I would love to do research or monitor trials. I think my resume is getting passed over because they see what I do now and do not think I would be happy making less money. Ya know everyone who is not in pharma or never has been thinks having a pharma sales job is like the holy grail or something and why would you want to leave. If I can actually ever get in front of someone I am sure I can "sale" then on why I want to leave....!!!

You mean "sell"? Actually, put that you are willing to start at entry level pay in your cover letter.

I was so excited to get my first Pharma job. Then I realized it wasnt all that great and there was a lot of corruption. I was shocked that when I started to look into other jobs like medical/surgical sales that no one wanted to have anything to do with a drug rep. i had several interviews flat out tell me that they hate the industry and they dont believe it is truely a sales job. I feel very lucky to have gotten out. I am in med sales now and it is a totally different world

what kind of med sales....I am dying to get out. You are very right. Pharm reps are kind of laughing stock to some.

Look, people can knock pharma as long as they want. Let the media, your doctors, and your friends make fun of you and this position. At the end of the day, we get the last laugh. We make more money per hour than anyone who makes fun of us besides maybe leno on the tonight show. WHO CARES?!?! The economy sucks and most of us (if we have half a brain) will have enough money for retirement, which is more than I can say for most of America.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Look, people can knock pharma as long as they want. Let the media, your doctors, and your friends make fun of you and this position. At the end of the day, we get the last laugh. We make more money per hour than anyone who makes fun of us besides maybe leno on the tonight show. WHO CARES?!?! The economy sucks and most of us (if we have half a brain) will have enough money for retirement, which is more than I can say for most of America.

You are right. FYI to those thinking about med sales...you work twice as hard for the same dough, four times as hard for twice...kiss your family and your life goodbye, or quit bitching and do your job.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.

You are correct, sales and marketing hucksters have given this once very respected industry a black eye. It was bad enough when ignorant management began hiring unqualified reps to parrott the company lies. It went furthur into the sewer when those pill hustling ads went on TV then sunk to its present bottom with the ED (your so called "4-hr erection" )ads.

Can it/will it ever recover?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

You are correct, sales and marketing hucksters have given this once very respected industry a black eye. It was bad enough when ignorant management began hiring unqualified reps to parrott the company lies. It went furthur into the sewer when those pill hustling ads went on TV then sunk to its present bottom with the ED (your so called "4-hr erection" )ads.

Can it/will it ever recover?

I doubt it. From what I see (a couple years out of the busness), the folks running the pharmaceutical companies in America couldn't sell ice water to folks on the equator without hiring 5000 ex-cheerleaders, setting up "pod" sales teams and spending eighty-eight trillion on some computer program to identify "high target" water drinkers.

They've gotten away from what made this business successful for years.

Yeah, they'll still make money, but sooner-or-later, they won't be able to replace those "blockbusters" and "me-toos" that have been making money ... and then the politicians (looking for an easy bogie man) will lower the boom.

The big shots will, of course, take their money and move on. The poor slobs like us in the field will be the ones left high and dry.

What's more embarrassing? Saying you are in pharma sales or that you are unemployed! Time for a reality check!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

What's more embarrassing? Saying you are in pharma sales or that you are unemployed! Time for a reality check!

What the hell is wrong with you people. If you are ashamed of what you do GET OUT!. The products today are eons ahead of those 15 years ago. Blood pressure was controlled by reserpine, and alphablockers, along with CNS products. They had horrific side effects. Same with diabetes. Today, people live with these disease states without the side effect profile that made their lives miserable. The industry researched, developed, and yes---marketed superior products. If you are so ashamed, be a lawyer. You can take money from one pocket and put it in another (tremendous benefit to society).

I don't like the television adds, but I like a lot less on TV in general. The job is what you make it. I assure you there are many physicians who like some of the reps (not all of them) that call on them. Selling copiers? Selling cars? Selling Lab Equipment? Sales is sales. The most unfulfilled reps are the simple sample droppers.

Selling products that benefit our community? What a downer.

[quote=Anonymous;2394004]What the hell is wrong with you people. If you are ashamed of what you do GET OUT!. The products today are eons ahead of those 15 years ago. Blood pressure was controlled by reserpine, and alphablockers, along with CNS products. They had horrific side effects. Same with diabetes. Today, people live with these disease states without the side effect profile that made their lives miserable. The industry researched, developed, and yes---marketed superior products. If you are so ashamed, be a lawyer. You can take money from one pocket and put it in another (tremendous benefit to society).

I don't like the television adds, but I like a lot less on TV in general. The job is what you make it. I assure you there are many physicians who like some of the reps (not all of them) that call on them. Selling copiers? Selling cars? Selling Lab Equipment? Sales is sales. The most unfulfilled reps are the simple sample droppers.

Not too sure why you quoted me....my point was to be grateful you have a job period. And umemployment today went up 5.5%. Highest its been since 1986.

Another thing people aren't taking into consideration is all the dad gum generics that will soon be hitting the market....how will that impact the stability of the "pharma sample droppers". BTW, I'm in med device sales now so doesn't apply to me.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

What the hell is wrong with you people. If you are ashamed of what you do GET OUT!. The products today are eons ahead of those 15 years ago. Blood pressure was controlled by reserpine, and alphablockers, along with CNS products. They had horrific side effects. Same with diabetes. Today, people live with these disease states without the side effect profile that made their lives miserable. The industry researched, developed, and yes---marketed superior products. If you are so ashamed, be a lawyer. You can take money from one pocket and put it in another (tremendous benefit to society).

I don't like the television adds, but I like a lot less on TV in general. The job is what you make it. I assure you there are many physicians who like some of the reps (not all of them) that call on them. Selling copiers? Selling cars? Selling Lab Equipment? Sales is sales. The most unfulfilled reps are the simple sample droppers.

Selling products that benefit our community? What a downer.

Finally- an intelligent post on this moronic board.

Originally Posted by Vagitarian

20 something years ago when I signed on, a friend of a friend had just declared bankruptcy as a Real Estate agent. I was happy to have this job

Two years ago, the same guy was making $300K to 400K per yr as a Real Estate agent. I thought this job sucked and wished I was an Real Estate agent.

Today, I'm happy to have this job and glad I'm not a Real Estate agent.

It's kind of like that story about the tortoise and the hare.

Wow - your friend declared bankruptcy after making that kind of cash? Did he blow it all and not save a dime?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Wow - your friend declared bankruptcy after making that kind of cash? Did he blow it all and not save a dime?

Obviously your major was not Chronological order.

As a doc who occasionally visits this board, you all should not be as as ashamed of yourselves as your companies. I just got "detailed" by the Imitrex rep about their "new and improved" drug which is much, much, more expensive and has Imitrex AND naprosyn combined! WOW! I had trouble controlling myself!

This has got to be humiliating for the reps! I felt sorry for them.

Have the companies no shame what-so-ever?

(And I know I will soon be seeing patients referred to me who are now taking this GREAT new and expensive drug!)

For shame, on the company and the stupid doctors! But not on you guys, but what are you going to do.

I am a transition success story! So it's possible but it is a serious challenge.

In 2005 I left a Specialty Position which provided me with an income of about $120,000 per year. I was sick of not being able to advance, not being respected. I was one of those types that was very clinical and tried to sell to the correct patient type.

I left the industry-period-I had no job and I dedicated myself to finding a new job. I was headed towards Medical Equipment (where I actually started my career). No one would even consider me and it sucked, especially since my first job was with Smith and Nephew! I got all the same negative responses that have been stated in previous posts.

My plan had been to stay at the same pay range which after 3 months of interviewing and no hard offer on the table became obsolete.

As concern turned to despair I went to work for an organization that was affiliated with the FDA. My job was as a telemarketer that bought in $48,000 per year. Yes that's right-I thought my pharma job sucked! I hadn't made this little since I graduated college 15 years prior. Plus I had not had an income for 5 months during my job search.

Let me tell you folk, I held a second job on the side in a retail store just to keep my house; I took public transportation everywhere because I didn't have a car. Every luxury I knew left my life. I worked 24/7.

For those of you who know the politics of trying to get noticed or promoted in pharma and for those of you who actually did learn how to sell in Pharma training-this is where luck and hard work will kick in. About 3 months into my new job, my boss, as well as everyone up to the CEO of the organization was thrilled with my success in my telemarketing role. I was called in to meet with the CEO and I was promoted to an outside sales position the next month where the base salary was now $65,000 plus some perks (Thank god at least I was on my way).

Over the next year I called on every skill set I ever learned in the past. Today (I have been with the organization almost 2 years), I am the Director of Sales and I am being groomed to become the new VP of Sales and Marketing. I have surpassed my original income level and I know that I can now work for any company.

As you can tell by the length of this post the journey was anything but easy. It was humiliating and hard but it proves that you can move on. Hopefully my post brings attention to the pitfalls as well as the rewards of changing your pharma career path and hopefully my story gave you a good laugh on the way.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

As a doc who occasionally visits this board, you all should not be as as ashamed of yourselves as your companies. I just got "detailed" by the Imitrex rep about their "new and improved" drug which is much, much, more expensive and has Imitrex AND naprosyn combined! WOW! I had trouble controlling myself!

This has got to be humiliating for the reps! I felt sorry for them.

Have the companies no shame what-so-ever?

(And I know I will soon be seeing patients referred to me who are now taking this GREAT new and expensive drug!)

For shame, on the company and the stupid doctors! But not on you guys, but what are you going to do.

That is the theme here doc, the huckster sales folks hire anyone but someone with a science background so they can be programmed to lie through their teeth about a new "wonder drug' i.e, "me too drug".

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I doubt it. From what I see (a couple years out of the busness), the folks running the pharmaceutical companies in America couldn't sell ice water to folks on the equator without hiring 5000 ex-cheerleaders, setting up "pod" sales teams and spending eighty-eight trillion on some computer program to identify "high target" water drinkers.

They've gotten away from what made this business successful for years.

Yeah, they'll still make money, but sooner-or-later, they won't be able to replace those "blockbusters" and "me-toos" that have been making money ... and then the politicians (looking for an easy bogie man) will lower the boom.

The big shots will, of course, take their money and move on. The poor slobs like us in the field will be the ones left high and dry.

You pretty well sum it up Jack.

I'm so embarassed to be in this industry that when faced with the inevitable, "So what are you doing for a living these days?" question at my recent high school reunion, I said "Sales and Real Estate". I'm a landlord on the side, and pharma makes up about 90% of my income, but I would only elaborate on the real estate. I probably earn more than 80% of my graduating class, but I keep this gig on the down low.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I'm so embarassed to be in this industry that when faced with the inevitable, "So what are you doing for a living these days?" question at my recent high school reunion, I said "Sales and Real Estate". I'm a landlord on the side, and pharma makes up about 90% of my income, but I would only elaborate on the real estate. I probably earn more than 80% of my graduating class, but I keep this gig on the down low.

I hear you loud and clear...have my reunion coming up and am dreading the question...i guess i am gonna just say "medical sales" and pray that it goes no further than that...the problem is i have been in pharma sales so long that i can't really get out...(Although i will probably be pushed out soon cuz I am pushing 50, and have been in this game too long.) not sure how the hell i am going to make a living after this? Quiznos may be my only option...or some other dopey franchise "job-in-a-box."

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I hear you loud and clear...have my reunion coming up and am dreading the question...i guess i am gonna just say "medical sales" and pray that it goes no further than that...the problem is i have been in pharma sales so long that i can't really get out...(Although i will probably be pushed out soon cuz I am pushing 50, and have been in this game too long.) not sure how the hell i am going to make a living after this? Quiznos may be my only option...or some other dopey franchise "job-in-a-box."

glad to hear I am not alone. Good luck with the reunion.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I'm so embarassed to be in this industry that when faced with the inevitable, "So what are you doing for a living these days?" question at my recent high school reunion, I said "Sales and Real Estate". I'm a landlord on the side, and pharma makes up about 90% of my income, but I would only elaborate on the real estate. I probably earn more than 80% of my graduating class, but I keep this gig on the down low.

How would you like to be a female working for one of those sleazy "ed" ad cos (Pfizer,Bayer or Lilly) and be hit with "so, how are those 4 hour erections doing for your bottom line"?

Originally Posted by Vagitarian

20 something years ago when I signed on, a friend of a friend had just declared bankruptcy as a Real Estate agent. I was happy to have this job

Two years ago, the same guy was making $300K to 400K per yr as a Real Estate agent. I thought this job sucked and wished I was an Real Estate agent.

Today, I'm happy to have this job and glad I'm not a Real Estate agent.

It's kind of like that story about the tortoise and the hare.

If he was not making close to $300K two years ago pushing overpriced houses in that market, flippin' burgers would likely be a challenge.

Even a scarecrow from Oz should have been clearing closer to $500K a few years ago.

No way he would average that over long hall either. Foreclosure momentum has barley kicked into to gear.....and it will!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

As a doc who occasionally visits this board, you all should not be as as ashamed of yourselves as your companies. I just got "detailed" by the Imitrex rep about their "new and improved" drug which is much, much, more expensive and has Imitrex AND naprosyn combined! WOW! I had trouble controlling myself!

This has got to be humiliating for the reps! I felt sorry for them.

Have the companies no shame what-so-ever?

(And I know I will soon be seeing patients referred to me who are now taking this GREAT new and expensive drug!)

For shame, on the company and the stupid doctors! But not on you guys, but what are you going to do.

It is humiliating! Pfizer's, Caduet an expensive drug. Less expensive to go to Walmart and buy a generic statin and generic calcium channel blocker.

When products are getting ready to go generic, the companies come up with all kinds of "revival" products. If Drs. can't read right through this...then they need to go back to medical school.

By the way, medical schools, these days, are doing a better job at teaching residents deceptive marketing techniques of the pharmacuetical companies.
That's a very good thing.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.

Your post really hit home last evening as we were entertaining friends and the evening news came on. About half way through, the cheesy Bayer Levitra ad came on and no one reacted until the voice warning about "4 hour erections' blasted through. We all pretended to not hear it. Guess what? Five mins later the same ad followed about 5 mins later by the cheesy Cialis ad by Lilly! What a bunch of "used car huckster types", as you said!

I now agree with the many posters who say this industry has "gone to the huckster/hawker S&M teams". Note: S&M has more than one meaning. Do the pharma sales and marketing folks fit that category also?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

That is the theme here doc, the huckster sales folks hire anyone but someone with a science background so they can be programmed to lie through their teeth about a new "wonder drug' i.e, "me too drug".

I agree 100%-could not have said it better!

Here's an idea for all of you drug reps who find it difficult to do your job and be seen by a physician. Why don't you start trying to be a resource to them instead of just a detailer or sample dropper. Take pride in what you are doing...that is if you have any pride in what you are selling...and find out what they need from you. Create a way for them to talk to you on their own time through your own message board or something. They can drop questions or comments to you when they are online and you can respond back when you are...it doesn't have to be real time.

For example, if you are peddling diabetes meds why not ask a doctor for five minutes to talk about what you could do for him/her that would make their job easier. What are the three biggest obstacles they face when dealing with diabetic patients or patients that are border line. Then figure out a way to help them. Maybe it's sponsoring a health fair at a community center or place of worship if the doc tells you they are having trouble reaching patients because there is a trust issue.

Ok, it's more work on your part but if you really believe in what you do isn't it worth it? My clients are busy too and don't have time to sit with me while I rattle off all the features and benefits of my service, but they have all the time in the world to talk to me when I'm helping them solve their problems.

I can't wait to hear the flack I get for this one...but understand this comes from many conversations with docs and nurse practitioners who tell me constantly they value the information drug companies can provide. Real info that helps them do their jobs.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Here's an idea for all of you drug reps who find it difficult to do your job and be seen by a physician. Why don't you start trying to be a resource to them instead of just a detailer or sample dropper. Take pride in what you are doing...that is if you have any pride in what you are selling...and find out what they need from you. Create a way for them to talk to you on their own time through your own message board or something. They can drop questions or comments to you when they are online and you can respond back when you are...it doesn't have to be real time.

For example, if you are peddling diabetes meds why not ask a doctor for five minutes to talk about what you could do for him/her that would make their job easier. What are the three biggest obstacles they face when dealing with diabetic patients or patients that are border line. Then figure out a way to help them. Maybe it's sponsoring a health fair at a community center or place of worship if the doc tells you they are having trouble reaching patients because there is a trust issue.

Ok, it's more work on your part but if you really believe in what you do isn't it worth it? My clients are busy too and don't have time to sit with me while I rattle off all the features and benefits of my service, but they have all the time in the world to talk to me when I'm helping them solve their problems.

I can't wait to hear the flack I get for this one...but understand this comes from many conversations with docs and nurse practitioners who tell me constantly they value the information drug companies can provide. Real info that helps them do their jobs.

Ok. I agree with the premise that we need to be more than just detailers. I think we all would like to be a "resource" to our docs. The problem is that other than "sponsoring" an event, there is not much else we can legally do. And that points to much deeper problems in the industry. The traditional sales model does not work anymore. Just going in with features and benefits of our drugs is not what offices want. That's if you're lucky enough to get in there in the first place.

I think this is the main quandry. We all recognize that we need to provide value. OK then---How? The industry is so regulated, we really can't do anything of value. I think the most valuable service to a doc would be to sit at a desk and do prior auth's all day. But obvoiusly we can't do that. Need to get those sigs. And please, nobody respond about the valuable information they give there customers. Most docs don't see value there.

I don't have the answer. But I get frustrated when I hear companies say we need to be a resource to our customers. Very easy to say but hard to do unless you can give examples of bringing value to an office.

Every dam day, I'm inservicing staff. It may not be Pharma code or FDA perfect but I never ever discuss off label uses of my product. However, I do break down my product and the disease state into many, tiny learning opportunites. My drug is not patient friendly, but I have done inservices on pathophys, minimizing risks, various study designs and what they mean, basic statistical measurements used in clinicals (you would be surprised how many doctors and nurses do not really understand what they are reading or how to interpret the charts), nursing considerations regarding my product, QI issues and process improvements or 6 Sigma or how the future of healthcare. You don't have to stand there and talk about your product or bad mouth a competitor, you could actually learn something in your free time and then pay it forward. Just saying.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Every dam day, I'm inservicing staff. It may not be Pharma code or FDA perfect but I never ever discuss off label uses of my product. However, I do break down my product and the disease state into many, tiny learning opportunites. My drug is not patient friendly, but I have done inservices on pathophys, minimizing risks, various study designs and what they mean, basic statistical measurements used in clinicals (you would be surprised how many doctors and nurses do not really understand what they are reading or how to interpret the charts), nursing considerations regarding my product, QI issues and process improvements or 6 Sigma or how the future of healthcare. You don't have to stand there and talk about your product or bad mouth a competitor, you could actually learn something in your free time and then pay it forward. Just saying.

I wish I had your territory. Most of my docs would run for the hills if they saw you coming.