IT'S NOT JUST NOVARTIS: RTBKPL

[RTBKPL]

No one is any more frustrated by the company's insistance on programs and round tables and the like than I. I find my time to be better spent speaking to the doctors about the features, advantages and benefits of our drugs than using those few previous seconds/minutes to beg them to come to a program about drugs they have used for over a decade.

Last night I had the last minute opportunity to join a couple of friends at a local, upscale establishment well known for hosting programs. One of my old friends and her DM were there along with a gentleman I did not recognize, turned out he was the speaker. Too bad no one showed up to listen to him. I know we have all been in or close to such a disaster. It was sad to watch her next to her DM, waiting patiently, hopefully for someone, anyone to show up. Nada, zero, zilch. I guess Tuesday evening is no better than any other day of the week and even talks on relatively new therapies are incapable of getting out the thought leaders, movers and shakers, HVP's, or in this case even that handful of unmarried, old, decrepit types who will usually show up for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a glass of Koolaid.

After dinner my pals decided to retire to the bar to toss back a few more before they headed home. I reluctantly joined them and noted that my friend, her DM and the speaker were in the process of tossing back a few themselves. She motioned me over and introduced me to her two companions, obviously hoping for a bit of support from me as to the success or lack thereof, relative to programs in the big city. What was really interesting was that the speaker and DM both acknowledged that attendance is rarely what they hope for. Busts are not uncommon, the company big wigs know this and insist on programs anyway.

Considering something my DM said to me recently, this makes sense across the board. I won't go into that at this time. Seems that the powers that be are for some reason stuck in a mindset that reps can't sell, that speakers make all the difference and that's the way it is. Is it ignorance or apathy? Ignorance gets my vote.

I know I have observed this scene play out at least once before. It would be interesting to see the real statistics relative to attendance UNDER PHARMA GUIDELINES, and the ROI thereof.

Never let the bastards get you down.

RTBKPL

Who knows what lurks in the minds of Novartis execs? If I were to guess, however, I would say that continued requirements to go through this costly charade is based in the belief that the speaker should be of sufficient value as a writer to influence his/her writing habits that will stay in effect over a period of time. Trouble is, reps often stay with the same speaker because he is "with the program" and a comfort level is established. The real pay off in their minds is the number of Drs. that they can get to attend the speaker training programs. But, in order to have those, you would have to maintain the actual speaker events. Also, a part of the approach is the result of the new view of reps as simply interchangeable parts. For what reps are now days able to do, relationship building has become a far smaller factor in this job. In addition, managers have to show that money is being spent in a professional manner and in a way that furthers the professional education of the medical community. The fact that few records of attendance and resulting ROI is a joke indicates that it is the image rather than the reality that counts. Perhaps a good psychiatrist could add to these assumptions, but I think it comes fairly close.

Rt is correct as is post #2. One major problem is the selection process of speakers. The company asks for the thought leaders but most of the time it has been my experience that the thought leaders are too busy to speak or just plain disinterested. Therefore we end up with a few average CD's or PCP's who are hoping for a few extra pay days. No one wants to come hear them, they can't bring their wives or girlfriends so the attendance is minimal at best. Seems we can now invite MA's and LPN's and other low end medical professionals to programs just to fill seats. Do these people influence anything? NO! Programs are a waste of time and money. end of subject.

All Right! RTBKPL and any of his fans, I have 2 questions for all of U:
1.Who was the first one to coin RT...'s sigh off "Never let the bastards get you down"? It was not his invention for sure, although he could have come up with it on his own without knowing about the original one.
2. Who was the person that the originator of this classic phrase sent it to as a support for his/her troubles at the time?

tip: if you read VF you'd know the answers.

[RTBKPL]

Originally Posted by who was the first?

All Right! RTBKPL and any of his fans, I have 2 questions for all of U:
1.Who was the first one to coin RT...'s sigh off "Never let the bastards get you down"? It was not his invention for sure, although he could have come up with it on his own without knowing about the original one.
2. Who was the person that the originator of this classic phrase sent it to as a support for his/her troubles at the time?

tip: if you read VF you'd know the answers.

1. I cant tell you who the first to coin the phrase was, but I can tell you that it was a latin phrase( I believe) on the desk of a Colonel I flew with in the AF. Illegitimis nil carborundum - and or Illegitimi non carborundum. I have seen both used although I understand from very reliable sources that the former is more correct.

2. Dont know the answer to this question but would be very interested in the answer.

Never let the bastards get you down.

RTBKPL

Originally Posted by RTBKPL

No one is any more frustrated by the company's insistance on programs and round tables and the like than I. I find my time to be better spent speaking to the doctors about the features, advantages and benefits of our drugs than using those few previous seconds/minutes to beg them to come to a program about drugs they have used for over a decade.

Last night I had the last minute opportunity to join a couple of friends at a local, upscale establishment well known for hosting programs. One of my old friends and her DM were there along with a gentleman I did not recognize, turned out he was the speaker. Too bad no one showed up to listen to him. I know we have all been in or close to such a disaster. It was sad to watch her next to her DM, waiting patiently, hopefully for someone, anyone to show up. Nada, zero, zilch. I guess Tuesday evening is no better than any other day of the week and even talks on relatively new therapies are incapable of getting out the thought leaders, movers and shakers, HVP's, or in this case even that handful of unmarried, old, decrepit types who will usually show up for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a glass of Koolaid.

After dinner my pals decided to retire to the bar to toss back a few more before they headed home. I reluctantly joined them and noted that my friend, her DM and the speaker were in the process of tossing back a few themselves. She motioned me over and introduced me to her two companions, obviously hoping for a bit of support from me as to the success or lack thereof, relative to programs in the big city. What was really interesting was that the speaker and DM both acknowledged that attendance is rarely what they hope for. Busts are not uncommon, the company big wigs know this and insist on programs anyway.

Considering something my DM said to me recently, this makes sense across the board. I won't go into that at this time. Seems that the powers that be are for some reason stuck in a mindset that reps can't sell, that speakers make all the difference and that's the way it is. Is it ignorance or apathy? Ignorance gets my vote.

I know I have observed this scene play out at least once before. It would be interesting to see the real statistics relative to attendance UNDER PHARMA GUIDELINES, and the ROI thereof.

Never let the bastards get you down.

RTBKPL

You are a moron

We are getting hammered on programs and in states like MN they can't participate in dinner programs. The company follows the some state law limiting spending to $50/doc/year. Dinner programs at Taco Bell? My buddy in MN said that goals are not adjusted for this situation - When I complain he just reminds me that I atleast have to opportunity to get docs out of the office with out the fear of getting fired for spending more then $50. Oh and MA's are not considered HCPs there so if they show up or are at a lunch their numbers are added to the docs. He spends more time trying to make sure he manages the numbers and gets everyone to sign in that fits Novatis's HCP rule so he does not get fired for over spending. Sounds crazy.

Originally Posted by RTBKPL

1. I cant tell you who the first to coin the phrase was, but I can tell you that it was a latin phrase( I believe) on the desk of a Colonel I flew with in the AF. Illegitimis nil carborundum - and or Illegitimi non carborundum. I have seen both used although I understand from very reliable sources that the former is more correct.

2. Dont know the answer to this question but would be very interested in the answer.

Never let the bastards get you down.

RTBKPL

Never mind the latin thing. This phrase is as American as apple pie. The following quote will give you and any of your fans both answers.

"If anyone should be thrown off the show, she said, it should be Harry Reasoner. 'He is insulting her on the air. He's being rude and sarcastic and putting her down.' Even Richard Salant, the president of CBS News, who had questioned at first wheather I was a journalist or Chair, was sobered by my negative press. ":She's taking an awful licking" he said.
On and on it went for months. There was rarely a day without some opinion, pro or con, usually con. But what set me up for quite some time was the telegram I received out of the blue from a man I never met. It said simply, "Don't let the bastards get you down." and was signed "John Wayne". I felt as if the cavalry were coming." (This was in 1976)
From Ms. Walter's reflects, current VF (Vanity Fair for you) page 167.
So if Duke said it, it was him who came up with it. As American as it can get.
You,CP's mysterious RTB... could have come up with it as suggested above and there is nothing wrong with it.
As the Duke said it, first, and you later, "Don't let the bastards get you down." Be they Novamafia brass or any other kind of low life.

Read the news item on the Cafe homepage about Lilly proposing FULL DISCLOSURE. Do you smell that Novartis? Its the turd that just popped out into your pants. Full Disclosure on all payments made to physicians in excess of $500. I guess we will have to hire more Patient Type Presenters at $300 a pop to stay below the radar on this one. OOPS! Better go wipe now.

Originally Posted by Who was the first and second?

Never mind the latin thing. This phrase is as American as apple pie. The following quote will give you and any of your fans both answers.

"If anyone should be thrown off the show, she said, it should be Harry Reasoner. 'He is insulting her on the air. He's being rude and sarcastic and putting her down.' Even Richard Salant, the president of CBS News, who had questioned at first wheather I was a journalist or Chair, was sobered by my negative press. ":She's taking an awful licking" he said.
On and on it went for months. There was rarely a day without some opinion, pro or con, usually con. But what set me up for quite some time was the telegram I received out of the blue from a man I never met. It said simply, "Don't let the bastards get you down." and was signed "John Wayne". I felt as if the cavalry were coming." (This was in 1976)
From Ms. Walter's reflects, current VF (Vanity Fair for you) page 167.
So if Duke said it, it was him who came up with it. As American as it can get.
You,CP's mysterious RTB... could have come up with it as suggested above and there is nothing wrong with it.
As the Duke said it, first, and you later, "Don't let the bastards get you down." Be they Novamafia brass or any other kind of low life.

I always thought everyone knew it was John Wayne AND *gasp* I'm a girl! Where have you guys been? Anyway, I've been around for quite some time and I find value in programs. I've really had an opportunity to get to know my docs through the programs. The docs enjoy coming out and now actually ask me when the next program is. The key is to find a group of docs who are friends and enjoy spending time together. They are your "base" and then you use their names to bring more in. Many times the cards and nephs will come out just to get referrals. Sometimes new docs come out so they can get to know other docs in the area. It's all about networking and picking the right people. Then, pick a great venue and have your speaker be remotely interesting. It works for me.

I can tell by the posts that it's rather rare for anyone to be on this site unless they have already become jaded and negative (which can easily happen in today's environment). I don't blame you all, but you need to know there are a few of us that have a different perspective on the subject.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I always thought everyone knew it was John Wayne AND *gasp* I'm a girl! Where have you guys been? Anyway, I've been around for quite some time and I find value in programs. I've really had an opportunity to get to know my docs through the programs. The docs enjoy coming out and now actually ask me when the next program is. The key is to find a group of docs who are friends and enjoy spending time together. They are your "base" and then you use their names to bring more in. Many times the cards and nephs will come out just to get referrals. Sometimes new docs come out so they can get to know other docs in the area. It's all about networking and picking the right people. Then, pick a great venue and have your speaker be remotely interesting. It works for me.

I can tell by the posts that it's rather rare for anyone to be on this site unless they have already become jaded and negative (which can easily happen in today's environment). I don't blame you all, but you need to know there are a few of us that have a different perspective on the subject.

Ain't that nice honey? In fact you are a smart one. All you do "entertain" the regular group of doct in fancy restaurants on Nov. account. Of course they like to come out with friends etc and if they have to listen to some sales pitch from some doc, so be it.
In the end it is a good work by you and in this day and age of high food prices, at least it is not wasted as in other cases when they don't show up and you had guarantee the numbers.
ps: do you also pay them to come as in Advisory Board Members meeting scenario?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Ain't that nice honey? In fact you are a smart one. All you do "entertain" the regular group of doct in fancy restaurants on Nov. account. Of course they like to come out with friends etc and if they have to listen to some sales pitch from some doc, so be it.
In the end it is a good work by you and in this day and age of high food prices, at least it is not wasted as in other cases when they don't show up and you had guarantee the numbers.
ps: do you also pay them to come as in Advisory Board Members meeting scenario?

These are small towns. Once you get a few docs the rest come too. It's win win when the specialists come as well. Are you telling me you have issues that I figured out a way to get attendance? I guess I'm not understanding your point?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

These are small towns. Once you get a few docs the rest come too. It's win win when the specialists come as well. Are you telling me you have issues that I figured out a way to get attendance? I guess I'm not understanding your point?

And afterwards we all go to LA-LA land and drink blue kool-aid together. Its great, there are ponies, rainbows, and cotton candy everywhere. Show the docs your rack, that will drive attendance. I know that what I am reading is there because I see it with my own eyes, but I still cant believe it. I love your advice. I am nominating you for Pharmaceutical rep of the year. In fact, you should have a syndicated column in Pharmaceutical Representative magazine. Then all of the reps could write in and tell you about the problems that they encounter in the field and you can tell them exactly what you learned in training.

Look around sweet tits. We are in an industry of gross excess. The belt is tightening around the whole industry and you want to go on and post how you figured it all out by asking your doctors Jimmy Bob and Larry to head on out to the local Cracker Barrel for some down home cookin? Bravo my dear. Do you ever feel ashamed when you go into their office and there are patients practically sitting on each others' laps? You stroll in with your wheelie bag full of samples and a box of pens and donuts in the other hand.

Ever notice how the patients look at you with disdain and disgust as you chit chat with the fat assed window witch in the front about the weather or your new dog. Then you casually stroll through the waiting room just like the other 5 reps have that morning and deliver yet another program invite to Dr. Smith. Those people sitting in those chairs are NOT happy. Worse yet, they are sure to get a nice shiny new Diovan script when they could have paid $4 at Wal-Mart for an ACE.

I am not trying to crash down on you and smash your spirit. I love that attitude in a new rep. All that I am saying is look around a little bit. Look around outside of yourself and that cute little Prius that you drive around "entertaining" doctors in. There are real people out there. People who do not get paid $60,000 base and $17,000 bonus and a company car. People who really worked all of their lives only to end up getting stiffed with a Tekturna script instead of a suitable generic ACE just because you and Dr. Jones shared a chopped steak at the Ponderosa last night.

Think about it.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

These are small towns. Once you get a few docs the rest come too. It's win win when the specialists come as well. Are you telling me you have issues that I figured out a way to get attendance? I guess I'm not understanding your point?

P.S. I am the previous poster
John Wayne was also well known for coining a phrase as more and more war protestors began rioting in America.

The Duke said, "This is getting ri-goddamn-diculous." End Quote

I agree with Mr. Wayne, however not about any war protestors. I agree with his statement in regards to the pharmaceutical industry.

[RTBKPL]

Originally Posted by Who was the first and second?

Never mind the latin thing. This phrase is as American as apple pie. The following quote will give you and any of your fans both answers.

"If anyone should be thrown off the show, she said, it should be Harry Reasoner. 'He is insulting her on the air. He's being rude and sarcastic and putting her down.' Even Richard Salant, the president of CBS News, who had questioned at first wheather I was a journalist or Chair, was sobered by my negative press. ":She's taking an awful licking" he said.
On and on it went for months. There was rarely a day without some opinion, pro or con, usually con. But what set me up for quite some time was the telegram I received out of the blue from a man I never met. It said simply, "Don't let the bastards get you down." and was signed "John Wayne". I felt as if the cavalry were coming." (This was in 1976)
From Ms. Walter's reflects, current VF (Vanity Fair for you) page 167.
So if Duke said it, it was him who came up with it. As American as it can get.
You,CP's mysterious RTB... could have come up with it as suggested above and there is nothing wrong with it.
As the Duke said it, first, and you later, "Don't let the bastards get you down." Be they Novamafia brass or any other kind of low life.

Very Interesting. I did an extensive search on the internet, googled John Wayne quotes, looked at all the sites that came up and this quote does not seem to have been listed on any of them. No matter, the duke was a great guy and I was a big fan. Again, my exposure to this line was from a great old guy who I trusted with my life on many occasions. If he said something, I listened. If the Duke said it in 1976, I read it in 1970 so perhaps it wasn't his original idea either.

I am not a big fan of VF or BABA WAWA. Thanks for the input.

Never let the bastards get you down.

RTBKPL

[RTBKPL]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I always thought everyone knew it was John Wayne AND *gasp* I'm a girl! Where have you guys been? Anyway, I've been around for quite some time and I find value in programs. I've really had an opportunity to get to know my docs through the programs. The docs enjoy coming out and now actually ask me when the next program is. The key is to find a group of docs who are friends and enjoy spending time together. They are your "base" and then you use their names to bring more in. Many times the cards and nephs will come out just to get referrals. Sometimes new docs come out so they can get to know other docs in the area. It's all about networking and picking the right people. Then, pick a great venue and have your speaker be remotely interesting. It works for me.

I can tell by the posts that it's rather rare for anyone to be on this site unless they have already become jaded and negative (which can easily happen in today's environment). I don't blame you all, but you need to know there are a few of us that have a different perspective on the subject.

Glad to hear programs are valuable to you. I am confident that in some geographies this might just be the case. Not so in mine nor in many others I hear about. It's almost impossible to get even the "what's for dinner" bunch out these days. Keep up the good work.

I try not to be jaded or negative, quite difficult in todays environment. I really believe many people come on here just to vent, nothing wrong with that although I feel the manner in which they do so detracts from the seriousness of the message.

Never let the bastards get you down.

RTBKPL

Originally Posted by RTBKPL

Very Interesting. I did an extensive search on the internet, googled John Wayne quotes, looked at all the sites that came up and this quote does not seem to have been listed on any of them. No matter, the duke was a great guy and I was a big fan. Again, my exposure to this line was from a great old guy who I trusted with my life on many occasions. If he said something, I listened. If the Duke said it in 1976, I read it in 1970 so perhaps it wasn't his original idea either.

I am not a big fan of VF or BABA WAWA. Thanks for the input.

Never let the bastards get you down.

RTBKPL

Right. If Baba Wawa says it Duke sent her the message, this much you and I can believe her. Mind you the way most types like her write books, you can't be sure. It makes for good reading.
"Never let the bastards (of any kind) get you down" is a code we all should, correction, must live by especially in today's day and age. Be it in Novar. (especially) or outside.
In my case, while on a long tour of duty at Nov. I did let them get me down for a long time. One day I woke up and said enough was enough. Mind you I was in a position to do that without ever needing these bastards anymore for anything.
My suggestion to anyone, give them what you must and wait for your turn. They don't deserve anything more than that. Believe it.