FDEs were mislead...

I was told during my interview with both HR and my manager that FDE status was just something Lilly was doing with all new employees in order to give them an extended probation. I was promised that after two years of successful sales performance I would be hired as a FTE.

To those who say: "you signed a contract which said you could be let go at anytime" let me remind you that the same contract said I could be hired as an FTE after two years of service. Plus Lilly is an at will employer so any employee can be let go at any time.

I'd like to hear what other FDEs were told during their interview process. I've spoken to six other FDEs who were told the same thing as me. Respect for people includes being honest.

ahhh.....first mistake was believing the statement "respect for people"

Originally Posted by Anonymous

ahhh.....first mistake was believing the statement "respect for people"

Ahhhh, but the second mistake was believing that HR and your manager wouldn't mislead you. Misleading employees is Lilly HR's paradigm. It is set in stone.

Effectively what they told you was true. If Lilly would have expanded you could have been hired as full-time, however, you are also the newest employees- so you are the first ones cut. And yes, it does suck.

Lilly more or less simply copied the successful business model of the contract rep. After Quintiles/Novaquest came on board, look what happened. Humalog sales went up, by quite a bit. Contract reps were cheaper, Lilly didn't have to give them cars or bennies ( all handled by Quintiles). They soon realized that this model was working vey well, and started their own contract force-- enter the FDE. Which was also sort of a slap in the face to Quintiles, who provided this model to Lilly, which worked.

Will give you my example, to make you feel better-- several years of pharma and B2B, accepted a novaquest role as I was essentially promised that I would roll into a Lilly spot if there was ever an opening near my territory. Well, 2 openings came and went, I applied, and didn't even get the courtesy of an interview. All of my offices had huge market shares, worked great with my partners ( who kept quitting for some reason...), WTF? Contract and FDE are great interim jobs, but do not listen to the parent company they dangle the carrot of ' sliding into a position' ... No regrets here, as the contract position turned out to be great-- great bonuses, much less pressure than my Lilly friends ( hmm.. who kept quitting..), with the same core job.

Anyway, we are both out of a job, so good luck to you FDE's-- I do think you got handed more of a raw deal, but remember, it was a solid job for a while....

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Effectively what they told you was true. If Lilly would have expanded you could have been hired as full-time, however, you are also the newest employees- so you are the first ones cut. And yes, it does suck.

Ahhhhh, the humanity of it all.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I was told during my interview with both HR and my manager that FDE status was just something Lilly was doing with all new employees in order to give them an extended probation. I was promised that after two years of successful sales performance I would be hired as a FTE.

To those who say: "you signed a contract which said you could be let go at anytime" let me remind you that the same contract said I could be hired as an FTE after two years of service. Plus Lilly is an at will employer so any employee can be let go at any time.

I'd like to hear what other FDEs were told during their interview process. I've spoken to six other FDEs who were told the same thing as me. Respect for people includes being honest.

As an FDE, I am tired of all the bellyaching from other FDEs about being let go. You knew what you signed up for when you came on board... and if you didn't, its your own fault. Does the contract state that you would be hired as an FTE after two years of successful sales performance? NO! Anybody can tell you anything, but at the end of the day what matters is what is in the contract. And if you didn't read it or get clarification on the terms, blame yourself.

the contract does say you can be hired as a FTE after two years. Read your contract.

It says you CAN get hired. That is not a guarantee. A FTE is also an "at will employee" with no guarantee. Thats the nature of corp. America. FDE's were hired to help with certain drugs before they went off patent. Things happen, you had to know that FDE s would be the first to go. Everyone is acting so surprised, this was announced back in Aug. on the CC. Yes it sucks and it is unfortunate but it was spelled out months ago. I had my resume put together the day after the annoucement and I'm an FTE. Its tough out there right now the FDE's should have been looking as well, instead of complaining on CP that they were mislead.

my hr manager promised me a pony! i want my pony! waaaaaaaa

Originally Posted by Anonymous

the contract does say you can be hired as a FTE after two years. Read your contract.

Key word is "can"; not "will". I was told I could apply for FTE positions at 24 months, but no automatic transfer to FTE. I knew this upfront as did every other FDE on my team. Sorry you feel like you got the shaft, but a contract employee is disposable income. Re-read your contract; I'm sure the Lilly lawyers did before they made the announcement to terminate the FDE's

Lilly invented the FDE position to provide flexible staffing while cutting out expensive employment agency fees. They probably created it because they know they will need to cut thousands of jobs due to the enormous revenue drop around the corner due to patent expirations....and knew they could not hire that many contractors from the agencies.

Anyway, they must save a ton of money doing this. Throw away employees who cost less is a perfect situation for an employer. It's like they get all the benefits out of marriage and none of the negatives....but only when suckers believe them. If FDE's keep buying into it, Lilly has a long term feeder pool of suckers. Maybe some will be good, hard-working and talented. I suspect this may become a long term cost cutting measure if they find it works without crushing morale.

I was told I could be president. Now a sozializt, terrerest named Bork Yomama is in charge. Waahhhh

This evil company created this evil class system, and that's why there are so much discuss about 1st, 2nd, 3rd....grade citizens.

Get out of that rural area, you'll find the sky is blue and everybody is equal. No such evil class systems, even there are, people treat each other very nice because everybody may get fired some day. Lilly is not your dearest mom, remember it, even it is, she may not be the best.

The sky is blue, be confident, FDEs, contractors, post-docs, fellowships .... and people on all kinds of their evil created systems, hold your head high, I know you're talent, smart, hard working...., you're 100 times better than those self-inflated lilly shit!

At least you're not sour grapes...

OP here. Thanks for the feedback. I was a little foolish to believe what I heard instead of what I read. Instead of crying on my contract I called up some friends and did some networking and am hearing about several positions. They aren't in pharma but they're STABLE and pay just as much. Wish me luck and good luck to all of you. Hope Friday goes well. I'm moving on.

It's unfortunate to read that so many FDEs got mixed messages. As an FDE, on one hand I agree with the posters who pointed out "we read the contract" and we shouldn't complain. Anyone that overlooked the specifics of the contract is a bit foolish.

On the other hand, I did have multiple hiring managers "oversell" what an FDE really meant to Lilly. I was told that I would be treated no differently than any other Lilly employee. For the most part, they lived up to their word. I never felt singled out by my manager or my teammates because of that one little letter difference in my status. The problem with all of this is we were evaluated by the same metrics and were expected to live up to the same standards UNTIL the day that Lilly decided to get rid of folks. Then, all of the sudden, we became a whole new class of employee...unfortunately a lower class of employee. Although in a lot of cases our results were better than our FTE counterparts, we lost our jobs. It feels like our hard work didn't matter in the end...and it certainly wasn't any less valuable to the company. So, yes, this seems horribly unjust and it's difficult to not feel very mislead.

Best of luck...and try to stay positive!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

It's unfortunate to read that so many FDEs got mixed messages. As an FDE, on one hand I agree with the posters who pointed out "we read the contract" and we shouldn't complain. Anyone that overlooked the specifics of the contract is a bit foolish.

On the other hand, I did have multiple hiring managers "oversell" what an FDE really meant to Lilly. I was told that I would be treated no differently than any other Lilly employee. For the most part, they lived up to their word. I never felt singled out by my manager or my teammates because of that one little letter difference in my status. The problem with all of this is we were evaluated by the same metrics and were expected to live up to the same standards UNTIL the day that Lilly decided to get rid of folks. Then, all of the sudden, we became a whole new class of employee...unfortunately a lower class of employee. Although in a lot of cases our results were better than our FTE counterparts, we lost our jobs. It feels like our hard work didn't matter in the end...and it certainly wasn't any less valuable to the company. So, yes, this seems horribly unjust and it's difficult to not feel very mislead.

Best of luck...and try to stay positive!!

You shouldn't even need to read the contract. The FD in FDE stands for FIXED DURATION. The most surprising thing about this thread, is that Lilly hired people who didn't even understand the agreement...and apparently ignored the business situation with Lilly.

For those who still do not get it, Lilly is not planning to hire many Americans as full time employees with full benefits and a pension.....not when they can pick from a much larger pool of resources in Asia who will cost much less now and later. ....and picking in Asia whether it be IT or R&D, is exactly what your management is doing. Core business for goodness sakes is moving to China. Here are words from your Benedict Arnold CEO:

"We'll expand our activities in those areas where we can continue to draw on the country's talent-rich base of researchers and scientists," Lechleiter said. "Lilly has already invested nearly $200 million in the country. We are committed to China."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchin...ent_888956.htm

Obviously as he lays off people, he is a bit more committed to China apparently.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

It's unfortunate to read that so many FDEs got mixed messages. As an FDE, on one hand I agree with the posters who pointed out "we read the contract" and we shouldn't complain. Anyone that overlooked the specifics of the contract is a bit foolish.

On the other hand, I did have multiple hiring managers "oversell" what an FDE really meant to Lilly. I was told that I would be treated no differently than any other Lilly employee. For the most part, they lived up to their word. I never felt singled out by my manager or my teammates because of that one little letter difference in my status. The problem with all of this is we were evaluated by the same metrics and were expected to live up to the same standards UNTIL the day that Lilly decided to get rid of folks. Then, all of the sudden, we became a whole new class of employee...unfortunately a lower class of employee. Although in a lot of cases our results were better than our FTE counterparts, we lost our jobs. It feels like our hard work didn't matter in the end...and it certainly wasn't any less valuable to the company. So, yes, this seems horribly unjust and it's difficult to not feel very mislead.

Best of luck...and try to stay positive!!

Very well said... "oversold". I wish I never heard of Eli Lilly.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

It's unfortunate to read that so many FDEs got mixed messages. As an FDE, on one hand I agree with the posters who pointed out "we read the contract" and we shouldn't complain. Anyone that overlooked the specifics of the contract is a bit foolish.

On the other hand, I did have multiple hiring managers "oversell" what an FDE really meant to Lilly. I was told that I would be treated no differently than any other Lilly employee. For the most part, they lived up to their word. I never felt singled out by my manager or my teammates because of that one little letter difference in my status. The problem with all of this is we were evaluated by the same metrics and were expected to live up to the same standards UNTIL the day that Lilly decided to get rid of folks. Then, all of the sudden, we became a whole new class of employee...unfortunately a lower class of employee. Although in a lot of cases our results were better than our FTE counterparts, we lost our jobs. It feels like our hard work didn't matter in the end...and it certainly wasn't any less valuable to the company. So, yes, this seems horribly unjust and it's difficult to not feel very mislead.

Best of luck...and try to stay positive!!

Lilly did the same thing to the Novaquest specialty NS force last year when they pulled the rug under them before the three years were up.

Just remember...nothing is ever guaranteed.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

You shouldn't even need to read the contract. The FD in FDE stands for FIXED DURATION. The most surprising thing about this thread, is that Lilly hired people who didn't even understand the agreement...and apparently ignored the business situation with Lilly.

For those who still do not get it, Lilly is not planning to hire many Americans as full time employees with full benefits and a pension.....not when they can pick from a much larger pool of resources in Asia who will cost much less now and later. ....and picking in Asia whether it be IT or R&D, is exactly what your management is doing. Core business for goodness sakes is moving to China. Here are words from your Benedict Arnold CEO:

"We'll expand our activities in those areas where we can continue to draw on the country's talent-rich base of researchers and scientists," Lechleiter said. "Lilly has already invested nearly $200 million in the country. We are committed to China."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchin...ent_888956.htm

Obviously as he lays off people, he is a bit more committed to China apparently.

Well look at the big picture. You have two options. One option is to not get involved with legitimate research, manufacturing, and sales in China. In that case, the current situation of many billions of dollars of counterfeit medications would continue to grow in China, and continue to grow in very sophisticated marketing worldwide. This is a very serious issue. One need only recall the recent heparin incidents or contaminated milk issues to see what happens when the Chinese gov't is left to police itself and it's businesses (after all many are owned by the gov't itself, the proverbial fox in the henhouse).

The other option is to get involved with China. This makes a foreign company less vulnerable to being stereotyped "FOREIGNER" and suffering the loss of potential market share of over a billion customers. Even with very small margins, the cash flow from just a handful of portfolio drugs is enough to keep the corporate lights on while profits are reaped in the US, Europe and Japan. Of course, some of those cheaply marketed drugs will find their way back through "Canadian internet pharmacies" but in all honesty, see again option #1 above - this activity will never fully stop, but a trickle is preferable to a fire hose at full throttle.

Regarding research.... of course, the beneficiaries will be almost completely on the Chinese side. American chemical companies have been pumping billions of dollars per year into China for a couple of decades now, and any honest Chinese will tell the Americans that there is no profit to be made here. If a manufacturing activity is profitable enough, it will be replicated by other firms operating in the shadows, and the product channeled through various markets globally with almost no trace of origin. Think about the heroin trade. Any of that junk ending up in the US crosses the Chinese border several times on it's way through production, distribution and marketing. We have to stop thinking about borders as some physical line in the earth that can be magically endowed with powers to stop illegitimate flow of goods, service, people, communication, intellectual property, anything you can dream of is fluid enough to get around the world in one way or another.

How does this relate to FDEs? It's simple. We are all FDEs now. One of these Obama himself will give a speech entitled "Ich ben ein FDEr" - hey 4-year term, right?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Very well said... "oversold". I wish I never heard of Eli Lilly.

Holy shit people...contract employees...Fixed Duration...that is what we are/were. That is what everbody in Lilly, Microsoft, GE, Budwieser (Hmm budweiser) are these days. No one is safe ANYWHERE in the worforce. InVentiv, Novaquest...you know what you signed up for when you joined your companies. You are a contract. Contract not being renewed. Surprised? WHY??? My training class had a small majority of "experienced", older workforce people. Some pharma, some not. But the maturity level was there. These 22 year old idiots just of out college just got a taste of the real buisness world (probably the ones who are still surprised and feel misled still bitching on CP.) Get over it. It sucks. Not a good time to be out of work. Been there, done that, got the unemployment check for 8 months. "I wish I never heard of Lilly". Are you fucking kidding me?? You got paid, got somekind of bonus, and a free ride/gas card for a year and a half. Can't agree about the experience, but at least you have something to put on a resume. Yeah, pharma gets the raised eyebrow from potential employers, but you were at least employed and you show that you are responsible enough to handle your own territory. Look outside of pharma at 22 and see where you go. Yeah, I know, there are better jobs out there than pharma, and I couldn"t agree more. Pharma is the Titanic right now just waiting for the iceberg. But stop the crying and bitching already. Life is not fair sometimes. Multi-billion companies are looking at the money bottom line. We lost 1 BILLION dollars in a lawsuit. Want to recoup 1 Billion in the next two years....DUH!!! Get the resume tightend up and move on. I am truly sorry the FDE's got it hard and it SUCKS. Welcome to the world people. Take a bottle of Jack, go on a bender, and then move on. Truly, good luck to my fellow FDE's out there. But move on.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Holy shit people...contract employees...Fixed Duration...that is what we are/were. That is what everbody in Lilly, Microsoft, GE, Budwieser (Hmm budweiser) are these days. No one is safe ANYWHERE in the worforce. InVentiv, Novaquest...you know what you signed up for when you joined your companies. You are a contract. Contract not being renewed. Surprised? WHY??? My training class had a small majority of "experienced", older workforce people. Some pharma, some not. But the maturity level was there. These 22 year old idiots just of out college just got a taste of the real buisness world (probably the ones who are still surprised and feel misled still bitching on CP.) Get over it. It sucks. Not a good time to be out of work. Been there, done that, got the unemployment check for 8 months. "I wish I never heard of Lilly". Are you fucking kidding me?? You got paid, got somekind of bonus, and a free ride/gas card for a year and a half. Can't agree about the experience, but at least you have something to put on a resume. Yeah, pharma gets the raised eyebrow from potential employers, but you were at least employed and you show that you are responsible enough to handle your own territory. Look outside of pharma at 22 and see where you go. Yeah, I know, there are better jobs out there than pharma, and I couldn"t agree more. Pharma is the Titanic right now just waiting for the iceberg. But stop the crying and bitching already. Life is not fair sometimes. Multi-billion companies are looking at the money bottom line. We lost 1 BILLION dollars in a lawsuit. Want to recoup 1 Billion in the next two years....DUH!!! Get the resume tightend up and move on. I am truly sorry the FDE's got it hard and it SUCKS. Welcome to the world people. Take a bottle of Jack, go on a bender, and then move on. Truly, good luck to my fellow FDE's out there. But move on.

It seems you're employeed by Lilly, regular kind, right? But why still have such a sour...attitude to others and to the world?

Life some time is unfair, but the "unfair" some time brings better things to a person's life. From this point of view, life seems fair. Move on, folks.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

the contract does say you can be hired as a FTE after two years. Read your contract.

only if nominated by three current FTEs, one of them at manager level or above, and seconded by the chaplain at LTC

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I was told I could be president. Now a sozializt, terrerest named Bork Yomama is in charge. Waahhhh

NO WAY!!!!! When did THAT happen?