Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

The calls per day expectation for ALL Lilly sales representatives will be raised to 10.5 in a new standards initiative being rolled out in the US, French and UK affiliates, effective January 2010. The new business units are excluded, they will set their own standards, said John Lechleiter, President and CEO. "We are committed to be the leaders in our efficiency standards and productivity ratios, and we will all have to step up to the plate in this endeavor. The train has left the station and you are all on the train or on the tracks"

Is this guy smoking something? Just how are we expected to achieve this?

If they made it 12.5 we would get that. Its all a fake anyways!

It just shows how out of touch corportate is with reality. I am able to realistically see 1 to 2 providers a day. The rest are no see offices.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

It just shows how out of touch corportate is with reality. I am able to realistically see 1 to 2 providers a day. The rest are no see offices.

If you can only see 1-2 people a day you need to learn how to develop relationships- that is horrible.

I see 9 psychs per day average. I have been on this territory, give or take, for eleven years and have great relationships....I don't know how I would get to over ten on a daily basis and I am no slacker

Originally Posted by Anonymous

It just shows how out of touch corportate is with reality. I am able to realistically see 1 to 2 providers a day. The rest are no see offices.

One or two a day? So what do you do for a day job? We don't need you buddy if that is all you are doing....

How will I have time for my hair or nail appointments?

Remember the ZS mantra: Reach AND frequency!

Which new business units? Aren't we all assigned to some business unit? That doesn't make sense.

It is ridiculous. The only thing the new calls per day ruling will do is cause more lying. They could make it 20 calls per day and they would get it because sales reps already accustomed to lying about calls don't care whether they lie about 8 calls, or 9 calls, or 20 calls. It's all a lie. I feel especially for those reps who have huge territories like I did before I retired from Lilly. I could never convince managers that it is simply impossible to see 9 docs a day and still drive 200 to 400 miles a day. It is insane. Lilly is insane.

give what they want, and chill

Originally Posted by Anonymous

It is ridiculous. The only thing the new calls per day ruling will do is cause more lying. They could make it 20 calls per day and they would get it because sales reps already accustomed to lying about calls don't care whether they lie about 8 calls, or 9 calls, or 20 calls. It's all a lie. I feel especially for those reps who have huge territories like I did before I retired from Lilly. I could never convince managers that it is simply impossible to see 9 docs a day and still drive 200 to 400 miles a day. It is insane. Lilly is insane.

We must all do our part to continue the long tradition of lies established by our leaders. With a shrinking workforce, our leadership will expect every remaining employee to step up their lying to ensure our growth in total lies continues to skyrocket on an annual basis. We must all "Lie for Eli".

Originally Posted by Anonymous

If you can only see 1-2 people a day you need to learn how to develop relationships- that is horrible.

obviously you are not a pharma rep....1-2 calls is REALITY

Originally Posted by Anonymous

obviously you are not a pharma rep....1-2 calls is REALITY

I think he was counting a response to "can I sign something?" as a relationship. I agree 1-2 calls per day is a max for me and most of my district. That is on a good week. Every rep that I know and every rep that I have ever known lies about calls on a daily basis. So, if they want more calls they will get them. Doesn't matter if they are real or not. Never has.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

obviously you are not a pharma rep....1-2 calls is REALITY

you are clearly not a successful rep, 1 to 2 calls per day is just downright lazy...

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Which new business units? Aren't we all assigned to some business unit? That doesn't make sense.

in name maybes...in reality there are only two business units, oncology and diabetes, then there is 'all the rest' which is not really a business unit it is a way of managing legacy products til they go generic so the folks can then be laid off without disrupting the future business of onco and diabetes. You must have been able to see this????

1-2 calls a day is REAL face to face details. How many of you count your details to the receptionist, the nurses, the MA's or passing your computer back....Please if you say you honestly make 8+ calls a day you must be lying to yourself and everyone else. Take a look in the mirror. I realize that there are major differences around the country. I work in the NE and every week there's another office that won't see reps, take samples or do lunches. Calling me lazy only means that you have no clue what it's like up here. I probably work harder then all of you combined. I work nights and some weekends just to try and get access. I hit close to 15 offices a day (some are 5 docs an office...) and sometimes wait around only to be turned around because the doctor doesn't want to be hassled. Relationships don't get you anywhere in Pharma in the NE. They only get you signatures (can you say pass your computer back through the window....wow that relationship with the nurse really helped). They only see us for what we are....salespeople. That's what happens when you have an educated population unlike you guys in the south. Dumb religious fuckers......

Originally Posted by Anonymous

1-2 calls a day is REAL face to face details. How many of you count your details to the receptionist, the nurses, the MA's or passing your computer back....Please if you say you honestly make 8+ calls a day you must be lying to yourself and everyone else. Take a look in the mirror. I realize that there are major differences around the country. I work in the NE and every week there's another office that won't see reps, take samples or do lunches. Calling me lazy only means that you have no clue what it's like up here. I probably work harder then all of you combined. I work nights and some weekends just to try and get access. I hit close to 15 offices a day (some are 5 docs an office...) and sometimes wait around only to be turned around because the doctor doesn't want to be hassled. Relationships don't get you anywhere in Pharma in the NE. They only get you signatures (can you say pass your computer back through the window....wow that relationship with the nurse really helped). They only see us for what we are....salespeople. That's what happens when you have an educated population unlike you guys in the south. Dumb religious fuckers......

I grant you the North NE has toughest access in the country, but you should not assume it is typical for the whole of the US. Here in the south there are no access issues if you know your folks, and nine a day is achievable for me. Ten plus is not achievable for me. I would never lie about my calls, lying is a sin, and Someone up there knows all that you do. Please don't cuss on this site. Thank you sir and God bless you.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I grant you the North NE has toughest access in the country, but you should not assume it is typical for the whole of the US. Here in the south there are no access issues if you know your folks, and nine a day is achievable for me. Ten plus is not achievable for me. I would never lie about my calls, lying is a sin, and Someone up there knows all that you do. Please don't cuss on this site. Thank you sir and God bless you.

Wow. Although it is obvious the poster is baiting someone for this type of response, I can't help myself.


Fuck you.

Increase your access via your 3rd input--your Lech-hôle.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

1-2 calls a day is REAL face to face details. How many of you count your details to the receptionist, the nurses, the MA's or passing your computer back....Please if you say you honestly make 8+ calls a day you must be lying to yourself and everyone else. Take a look in the mirror. I realize that there are major differences around the country. I work in the NE and every week there's another office that won't see reps, take samples or do lunches. Calling me lazy only means that you have no clue what it's like up here. I probably work harder then all of you combined. I work nights and some weekends just to try and get access. I hit close to 15 offices a day (some are 5 docs an office...) and sometimes wait around only to be turned around because the doctor doesn't want to be hassled. Relationships don't get you anywhere in Pharma in the NE. They only get you signatures (can you say pass your computer back through the window....wow that relationship with the nurse really helped). They only see us for what we are....salespeople. That's what happens when you have an educated population unlike you guys in the south. Dumb religious fuckers......

First off if they like you they will see you- period. Now grant it if you whip out that IVA and detail them every time they won't like you. So you should be able to "see" more then 1-2 Dr.'s if you have any type of relationships in your territory. But once you have been in the territory long enough and the Dr.'s know and like you- you really should never even be using the IVA.

I work in Boston, call on Psychs and "see" pretty much every Psych I try to "see". But I normally only stop in 3-4 offices a day at the most and do a lunch.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

you are clearly not a successful rep, 1 to 2 calls per day is just downright lazy...

then you are clearly a clueless manager.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

then you are clearly a clueless manager.

I may be clueless, but I get paid a hefty chunk of change to push reps over the edge. If I raise the bar high enough Lilly won't have to lay you off, because you'll quit or have to go on medical leave. Now get back to work, you should make 8 to 10 calls on a Sunday.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Wow. Although it is obvious the poster is baiting someone for this type of response, I can't help myself.


Fuck you.

beautiful, thanks for the laugh!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I may be clueless, but I get paid a hefty chunk of change to push reps over the edge. If I raise the bar high enough Lilly won't have to lay you off, because you'll quit or have to go on medical leave. Now get back to work, you should make 8 to 10 calls on a Sunday.

on behalf of everyone, shutup

Anyone who says that they actually have a Lilly defined sales interaction with more than 1-2 doc on average per day is lying through their teeth. I don't give a rat's rear what area of the country in which you live. Sig onlys, receptionist reach-arounds, and hello-in-the-halls are not calls, they are fluff. Calls are BS and they always have been. It is all part of the game.

This is from the AMA and was out this year. So, please go on about how "I'm different" and "I have relationships with my docs." Spare us all. You're a drug rep. The MD base doesn't need or want us anymore, which is why they continue to close their doors on an incremental curve. Yes, that is 44% of clinics with more than 10 docs refuse to see reps! You can read the whole article here if you want: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/200...3/prl10323.htm

The first % is refuse to see and the second is requires appts.
Practice size
1 to 2 doctors 14.3% 32.5%
3 to 5 16.7% 36.1%
6 to 10 23.1% 45.0%
More than 10 44.0% 45.5%
Practice ownership
Non-hospital 22.1% 37.8%
Non-health system 22.3% 37.5%
Hospital 31.2% 44.6%
Health system 34.7% 52.0%

We work in a dying job. The quicker we all realize that fact and start using our time bettering ourselves with additional education, acquiring additional skills, or actually supplementing our incomes while continuing to play along with this RIDICULOUS farce of a position; the better off we will all be. If any of you actually think that there is some kind of future in this; you are completely off your rocker. So, they want 10.5 calls? Sure, here is 10.5 calls. You want 11? I'll give you 11. Heck, I will give you 20 if you demand that I do so. What difference does it make? It is not even like they can even tell us what our MDs prescribe anymore.

I make 8 FACE TO FACE CALLS EACH AND EVRY DAY
I am in Chicago, have been with Lilly 5 years
It is possible..if you push yourself, 11 CAN be done

Now are my calls, great NO, but I can almost always manage a 3 minute discussion

It's even easier for women, especially if they are pretty

There are ways...just get creative


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Which new business units? Aren't we all assigned to some business unit? That doesn't make sense.

in name maybes...in reality there are only two business units, oncology and diabetes, then there is 'all the rest' which is not really a business unit it is a way of managing legacy products til they go generic so the folks can then be laid off without disrupting the future business of onco and diabetes. You must have been able to see this????

Anonymous
#17 Yesterday, 02:24 PM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1-2 calls a day is REAL face to face details. How many of you count your details to the receptionist, the nurses, the MA's or passing your computer back....Please if you say you honestly make 8+ calls a day you must be lying to yourself and everyone else. Take a look in the mirror. I realize that there are major differences around the country. I work in the NE and every week there's another office that won't see reps, take samples or do lunches. Calling me lazy only means that you have no clue what it's like up here. I probably work harder then all of you combined. I work nights and some weekends just to try and get access. I hit close to 15 offices a day (some are 5 docs an office...) and sometimes wait around only to be turned around because the doctor doesn't want to be hassled. Relationships don't get you anywhere in Pharma in the NE. They only get you signatures (can you say pass your computer back through the window....wow that relationship with the nurse really helped). They only see us for what we are....salespeople. That's what happens when you have an educated population unlike you guys in the south. Dumb religious fuckers......

Anonymous
#18 Yesterday, 02:34 PM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
1-2 calls a day is REAL face to face details. How many of you count your details to the receptionist, the nurses, the MA's or passing your computer back....Please if you say you honestly make 8+ calls a day you must be lying to yourself and everyone else. Take a look in the mirror. I realize that there are major differences around the country. I work in the NE and every week there's another office that won't see reps, take samples or do lunches. Calling me lazy only means that you have no clue what it's like up here. I probably work harder then all of you combined. I work nights and some weekends just to try and get access. I hit close to 15 offices a day (some are 5 docs an office...) and sometimes wait around only to be turned around because the doctor doesn't want to be hassled. Relationships don't get you anywhere in Pharma in the NE. They only get you signatures (can you say pass your computer back through the window....wow that relationship with the nurse really helped). They only see us for what we are....salespeople. That's what happens when you have an educated population unlike you guys in the south. Dumb religious fuckers......

I grant you the North NE has toughest access in the country, but you should not assume it is typical for the whole of the US. Here in the south there are no access issues if you know your folks, and nine a day is achievable for me. Ten plus is not achievable for me. I would never lie about my calls, lying is a sin, and Someone up there knows all that you do. Please don't cuss on this site. Thank you sir and God bless you.

Anonymous
#19 Yesterday, 08:06 PM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I grant you the North NE has toughest access in the country, but you should not assume it is typical for the whole of the US. Here in the south there are no access issues if you know your folks, and nine a day is achievable for me. Ten plus is not achievable for me. I would never lie about my calls, lying is a sin, and Someone up there knows all that you do. Please don't cuss on this site. Thank you sir and God bless you.

Wow. Although it is obvious the poster is baiting someone for this type of response, I can't help myself.


Fuck you.

Anonymous
#20 Today, 02:48 AM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Increase your access via your 3rd input--your Lech-hôle.

Anonymous
#21 Today, 11:38 AM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
1-2 calls a day is REAL face to face details. How many of you count your details to the receptionist, the nurses, the MA's or passing your computer back....Please if you say you honestly make 8+ calls a day you must be lying to yourself and everyone else. Take a look in the mirror. I realize that there are major differences around the country. I work in the NE and every week there's another office that won't see reps, take samples or do lunches. Calling me lazy only means that you have no clue what it's like up here. I probably work harder then all of you combined. I work nights and some weekends just to try and get access. I hit close to 15 offices a day (some are 5 docs an office...) and sometimes wait around only to be turned around because the doctor doesn't want to be hassled. Relationships don't get you anywhere in Pharma in the NE. They only get you signatures (can you say pass your computer back through the window....wow that relationship with the nurse really helped). They only see us for what we are....salespeople. That's what happens when you have an educated population unlike you guys in the south. Dumb religious fuckers......

First off if they like you they will see you- period. Now grant it if you whip out that IVA and detail them every time they won't like you. So you should be able to "see" more then 1-2 Dr.'s if you have any type of relationships in your territory. But once you have been in the territory long enough and the Dr.'s know and like you- you really should never even be using the IVA.

I work in Boston, call on Psychs and "see" pretty much every Psych I try to "see". But I normally only stop in 3-4 offices a day at the most and do a lunch.

Anonymous
#22 Today, 11:45 AM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
you are clearly not a successful rep, 1 to 2 calls per day is just downright lazy...

then you are clearly a clueless manager.

Anonymous
#23 Today, 12:41 PM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
then you are clearly a clueless manager.

I may be clueless, but I get paid a hefty chunk of change to push reps over the edge. If I raise the bar high enough Lilly won't have to lay you off, because you'll quit or have to go on medical leave. Now get back to work, you should make 8 to 10 calls on a Sunday.

Anonymous
#24 Today, 05:24 PM
Anonymous Posts: n/a

Re: Calls per day expectation raised....Madness!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:

sdsdsdsdsd

Am I mistaken or didn't they announce a couple of months ago that the Psych would be 7.5 calls a day and PCP would be 8.5....when did they change?

Any time a company makes ridiculous demands, like number of calls, it is an idiotic check the box mentality that will do nothing to increase sales. They need to focus on results not activities and until they stop worrying about babysitting mature professionals those goals will not be achieved.

My trouserbrain is so moist right now. anybody wanna touch it?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Any time a company makes ridiculous demands, like number of calls, it is an idiotic check the box mentality that will do nothing to increase sales. They need to focus on results not activities and until they stop worrying about babysitting mature professionals those goals will not be achieved.

Mature professionals? Really?

the new expectation will be rolled out in January, along with a 'call planning' workshop

Six, eight, ten, 10.5, 10.98.........what's the difference, you give them on paper what they want, you have to, otherwise if you don't and your numbers aren't there that month and quarter, the reason will be lack of frequency. Just be carefull, with your new partner or overlaps, it's a quick dismissal, if they want to take you down. My advice, don't complain and draw attention to yourself, and don't be to piggish with fake calls, just add enough to be in mid-pack and off the radar screen. To low or to high calls per day always get scrutinized. 20+ years of good performance and working the system

I am a former Lilly Rep---- for 10 years--- recently took a position selling surgical device. (The reason I am on Cafepharma is that I'm in a starbucks drinking coffee before my next case....). My point is this- give them what they want--- they want 12 give em 12 they want 20 give em 20. For the last 3-4 years with Lilly I wasn't working but maybe MAYBE 4-5 hours a week and managing my territory just fine. Hell they shrunk it with all the Six Sigma crap into a postage stamp. NOW- I'm working my ass off- making alot of $$, but not as much as with Lilly when you figure hrs/$$. Hang in there---- there's shit to deal with at every company.... gotta go- I'm on in an hour.

To PP, I agree totally the $/hr we make with Lilly if you can manage your territory in a few hours a day or week is insane. The trick is what are you doing with all those hours your not in the field. Be smart, find another source of income, start your own small business. E-bay anyone. This window of opportunity where we can do this will not last forever, be smart make what you can make when you can make it. My whole outlook on Lilly and the industry changed when it became obvious that these "jobs" are not careers and temporary jobs at that. Why wait to start thinking about where my first pay check post-Lilly will come from. Why wait "post"-Lilly to earn it. These can be truly the best of times

Originally Posted by Anonymous

To PP, I agree totally the $/hr we make with Lilly if you can manage your territory in a few hours a day or week is insane. The trick is what are you doing with all those hours your not in the field. Be smart, find another source of income, start your own small business. E-bay anyone. This window of opportunity where we can do this will not last forever, be smart make what you can make when you can make it. My whole outlook on Lilly and the industry changed when it became obvious that these "jobs" are not careers and temporary jobs at that. Why wait to start thinking about where my first pay check post-Lilly will come from. Why wait "post"-Lilly to earn it. These can be truly the best of times

You're way behind the times dude! Many of us have had jobs on the side for years. I've been running an on-line business for 5 years now. It's generating 75% of what I make now at Lilly. I'm just sticking around to help build my nest egg.

I also worked at Lilly for about 6 years and recently left. For the the last 4 years I was working there, I was pretty much working fulll time at another job and also had time to start my my own business...all while making my "9+ calls/day". My stay at Lilly worked out well for me. I guess my point is that your "drug rep" jobs are temporary and as long as you play the game, you are expendible, and why not make the most of it while you can.

This is not madness. Read the official description for what is considered a call and everybody will be subject to dismissal without a package. Makes good economic since to me and probably approved by your nice, (want to make you successful) manager and director. Easy way to reduce headcount. You can say or believe what you want but heads will roll in 2010........

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Anyone who says that they actually have a Lilly defined sales interaction with more than 1-2 doc on average per day is lying through their teeth. I don't give a rat's rear what area of the country in which you live. Sig onlys, receptionist reach-arounds, and hello-in-the-halls are not calls, they are fluff. Calls are BS and they always have been. It is all part of the game.

This is from the AMA and was out this year. So, please go on about how "I'm different" and "I have relationships with my docs." Spare us all. You're a drug rep. The MD base doesn't need or want us anymore, which is why they continue to close their doors on an incremental curve. Yes, that is 44% of clinics with more than 10 docs refuse to see reps! You can read the whole article here if you want: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/200...3/prl10323.htm

The first % is refuse to see and the second is requires appts.
Practice size
1 to 2 doctors 14.3% 32.5%
3 to 5 16.7% 36.1%
6 to 10 23.1% 45.0%
More than 10 44.0% 45.5%
Practice ownership
Non-hospital 22.1% 37.8%
Non-health system 22.3% 37.5%
Hospital 31.2% 44.6%
Health system 34.7% 52.0%

We work in a dying job. The quicker we all realize that fact and start using our time bettering ourselves with additional education, acquiring additional skills, or actually supplementing our incomes while continuing to play along with this RIDICULOUS farce of a position; the better off we will all be. If any of you actually think that there is some kind of future in this; you are completely off your rocker. So, they want 10.5 calls? Sure, here is 10.5 calls. You want 11? I'll give you 11. Heck, I will give you 20 if you demand that I do so. What difference does it make? It is not even like they can even tell us what our MDs prescribe anymore.

God Bless you!!!!

With all this relationship and able to see so many doctors?????I just wonder how many got invited to the doctors christmas home party or daughters wedding?????????Something to think about with all this warm, fuzzy, friendly relationship. Give me a break......

Relationships....well that will send a message, a perception, that we are in cohoots...and thats a VIOLATION !!!!! What BS.
We have all worked for years to develope relationships in order to gain TRUST, to be able to gain or maintain ACCESS. But be carefull, tell your manager that you are in tight with the office, did them a favor, or whatever, and he'll but a broom stick in tight up your.....
We don't have sales jobs anymore, we have compliance jobs.......

I've been a rep for 8 months, and I average 12 solid calls/day, all with complete messages. Any of you who do less are slackers.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

With all this relationship and able to see so many doctors?????I just wonder how many got invited to the doctors christmas home party or daughters wedding?????????Something to think about with all this warm, fuzzy, friendly relationship. Give me a break......

Funny I was just thinking that- I went to 4 Dr. home xmas party's (invited to 6) and in the last 3 years I've been to 2 weddings. Of course for 2 of the Dr. parties I paid for all the food through the caterer that I use for lunches. Had the caterer pad my lunch expenses since Oct!

The funny thing is for that stupid competency model I wasn't the highest rating for customer relationships. What a joke.

p.p. your D.S.M. here:

I too, have been watching you "pad" your expenses since Oct.

Now you know why you did not rate a "5" (BEST)

Originally Posted by Anonymous

p.p. your D.S.M. here:

I too, have been watching you "pad" your expenses since Oct.

Now you know why you did not rate a "5" (BEST)

p.p: your compliance assocaite here:

I, too have watching your expenses. DSM's are typically the biggest offenders of corporate card abuse.

C'mon people....drive by's, walk by's and if ya fart on the elevator and 12 MD's smell it...that's no sweat...30 calls a day...Happy friggin' new year