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  #1  
Old 07-23-2010, 05:20 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

A few of my Perios have received invitations to a Zimmer trabecular impant symposium recently. One of them plans on attending. Does anyone know if this thing really allows bone to grow IN to the implant? The Zimmer rep told my perio that it is coming over from ZImmer ortho with years of human data. He said that the implant will be stable after 2 weeks with final crown being able to be placed at 4 to 6 weeks after implant placement. This will KILL my implant business as all gp's want new "teeth" as fast as possible so their patients pay for their next set of implants and get paid faster.

A) Does Zimmer ortho really have such an "amazing" implant made of trabecular?

B) Does Zimmer Dental really expect to launch this thing anytime soon?


Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2010, 06:08 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
A few of my Perios have received invitations to a Zimmer trabecular impant symposium recently. One of them plans on attending. Does anyone know if this thing really allows bone to grow IN to the implant? The Zimmer rep told my perio that it is coming over from ZImmer ortho with years of human data. He said that the implant will be stable after 2 weeks with final crown being able to be placed at 4 to 6 weeks after implant placement. This will KILL my implant business as all gp's want new "teeth" as fast as possible so their patients pay for their next set of implants and get paid faster.

A) Does Zimmer ortho really have such an "amazing" implant made of trabecular?

B) Does Zimmer Dental really expect to launch this thing anytime soon?


Thanks!
I think it is not going to make an impact in Implant Dentistry the implant would be somewhat porous. What happens if it becomes exposed to the oral environment. Orthopedics is a closed system.

Zimmer® Trabecular Metal™ Technology
Frequently Asked Questions
What is the advantage of Trabecular Metal Technology over other joint replacement materials?

In addition to being the orthopaedic metal that more closely resembles the physical and mechanical properties of healthy bone, Zimmer Trabecular Metal Technology has been clinically shown to have several advantages over other implant materials:



•Greater initial stability.
•Allows rapid and extensive bone in-growth1,3
Why is bone in-growth important?

Joint and spine surgery and bone replacement involves removing or resurfacing damaged surfaces and restoring them with artificial implants. Implants are secured to human bone in one of two ways – they are either cemented (cement is used to secure the implant to the bone) or cementless (natural human bone grows into, or heals directly to, the artificial implant). Several factors determine which method is used; most notably the quality of the natural bone to which the implant must adhere. Trabecular Metal Implants have the porosity and structure that allows for extensive bone in-growth, which creates a bond between the implant and the bone, and eliminates the need for bone cement. For patients who have acceptable bone quality, cementless techniques are the preferable way to attach implants to existing human bone.

Why is porosity important in an implant?

Bone is living tissue that grows into your implant, incorporating it into your body. The more porous the implant material – in other words, the more nooks and crannies – the more space is available for bone to grow in and secure the implant. Whereas other materials used for orthopaedic implants are only 35 percent to 50 percent porous, Trabecular Metal material is 75-80 percent porous.1,2,3.


Why is flexibility important?

Although sturdy, healthy human bone has a certain degree of flexibility to withstand the body’s weight, and daily wear and tear. Trabecular Metal Implants possess flexibility similar to bone, whereas other implant materials are far more rigid. Studies have indicated that implant materials that don’t flex well can cause bones to recede and lose strength over time 5,6,7.



How is Trabecular Metal Material used?

Trabecular Metal material is used in hundreds of hip, knee, shoulder and spine implants. Zimmer, a global leader in orthopaedics, is the only company that offers this material. Whereas other porous joint replacement materials can only be coated or sprayed onto orthopaedic implants, Trabecular Metal material can be used to create an entire implant. This material also may be infused or bonded to other types of implants in the areas that come in contact with your natural bone, to allow bone in-growth. Trabecular Metal Implants are placed by orthopaedic surgeons via traditional joint replacement surgery and Zimmer’s less-invasive Minimally Invasive Solutions™ (MIS™) techniques.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2010, 12:28 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

This sounds like it is truly one of the most exciting and innovative leaps in dental implantology in decades. Kudos to Zimmer for bringing it to market.
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2010, 04:08 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
I think it is not going to make an impact in Implant Dentistry the implant would be somewhat porous. What happens if it becomes exposed to the oral environment. Orthopedics is a closed system.

mmer® Trabecular Metal™ Technology
Frequently Asked Questions E
What is the advantage of Trabecular Metal Technology over other joint replacement materials?

In addition to being the orthopaedic metal that more closely resembles the physical and mechanical properties of healthy bone, Zimmer Trabecular Metal Technology has been clinically shown to have several advantages over other implant materials:



•Greater initial stability.
•Allows rapid and extensive bone in-growth1,3
Why is bone in-growth important?

Joint and spine surgery and bone replacement involves removing or resurfacing damaged surfaces and restoring them with artificial implants. Implants are secured to human bone in one of two ways – they are either cemented (cement is used to secure the implant to the bone) or cementless (natural human bone grows into, or heals directly to, the artificial implant). Several factors determine which method is used; most notably the quality of the natural bone to which the implant must adhere. Trabecular Metal Implants have the porosity and structure that allows for extensive bone in-growth, which creates a bond between the implant and the bone, and eliminates the need for bone cement. For patients who have acceptable bone quality, cementless techniques are the preferable way to attach implants to existing human bone.

Why is porosity important in an implant?

Bone is living tissue that grows into your implant, incorporating it into your body. The more porous the implant material – in other words, the more nooks and crannies – the more space is available for bone to grow in and secure the implant. Whereas other materials used for orthopaedic implants are only 35 percent to 50 percent porous, Trabecular Metal material is 75-80 percent porous.1,2,3.


Why is flexibility important?

Although sturdy, healthy human bone has a certain degree of flexibility to withstand the body’s weight, and daily wear and tear. Trabecular Metal Implants possess flexibility similar to bone, whereas other implant materials are far more rigid. Studies have indicated that implant materials that don’t flex well can cause bones to recede and lose strength over time 5,6,7.



How is Trabecular Metal Material used?

Trabecular Metal material is used in hundreds of hip, knee, shoulder and spine implants. Zimmer, a global leader in orthopaedics, is the only company that offers this material. Whereas other porous joint replacement materials can only be coated or sprayed onto orthopaedic implants, Trabecular Metal material can be used to create an entire implant. This material also may be infused or bonded to other types of implants in the areas that come in contact with your natural bone, to allow bone in-growth. Trabecular Metal Implants are placed by orthopaedic surgeons via traditional joint replacement surgery and Zimmer’s less-invasive Minimally Invasive Solutions™ (MIS™) techniques.



Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but for you to claim that it will not make an impact in implant dentistry with no real argument other than the question: "what if infection gets into the oral space, this is not closed surgery like in orthopaedics" is a weak and ignorant point.

In fact, I know a couple orthopods who said that that is the same fear mongering negative strategy that competitive device reps said when Zimmer launched TMT in '98. I think that you really have no clue as to the science, capability, or engineering of this new implant and it's design ( i.e. the implant having acid etched titanium micro threads at the coronal aspec of the implant w/ the porous trabecular metal always sub crestal, thereby destroying your what if theory of " infection").

This is going to be a complete analog of what happened in total joins after Zimmer launhed TMT: competitors downplaying it's effect and subsequently losing tremendous matketshare to Zimmer. Zimmer lept from number 3 to number 1 one and a half years after TMT entered the space. And Zimmer has been #1 ever since.

And please, enogh with the "what about infection" scare tactics. We have infections w/out a porous implant anyways. And infections in the orthopaedics space are a life threatening concern instead of just annoyance like in dental. So for 12 years if surgeons still rely on TMT in orthopedics w/ the "fear of infection" being rendered a baseless claim, I'm confident the same pardigm shit will occur in dental.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:07 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but for you to claim that it will not make an impact in implant dentistry with no real argument other than the question: "what if infection gets into the oral space, this is not closed surgery like in orthopaedics" is a weak and ignorant point.

In fact, I know a couple orthopods who said that that is the same fear mongering negative strategy that competitive device reps said when Zimmer launched TMT in '98. I think that you really have no clue as to the science, capability, or engineering of this new implant and it's design ( i.e. the implant having acid etched titanium micro threads at the coronal aspec of the implant w/ the porous trabecular metal always sub crestal, thereby destroying your what if theory of " infection").

This is going to be a complete analog of what happened in total joins after Zimmer launhed TMT: competitors downplaying it's effect and subsequently losing tremendous matketshare to Zimmer. Zimmer lept from number 3 to number 1 one and a half years after TMT entered the space. And Zimmer has been #1 ever since.

And please, enogh with the "what about infection" scare tactics. We have infections w/out a porous implant anyways. And infections in the orthopaedics space are a life threatening concern instead of just annoyance like in dental. So for 12 years if surgeons still rely on TMT in orthopedics w/ the "fear of infection" being rendered a baseless claim, I'm confident the same pardigm shit will occur in dental.
Zimmer seems to be in the news with respect to issues with their orthopedic implants. And isn't Nobel involved in a class action law suit involving the NobelDirect fixture? Niznick mentioned that the design resulted in Nobel's surface being exposed to the oral environment because the inventor didn't think this would be a problem. Apparently that isn't the case.......................

Doesn't immediate or early loading have more to due with fixture geometry, thread design, insertion torque and initial RFA values? How about a thread pattern and fixture geometry that results in a reduced ITV's but establishes a high RFA reading at the time of insertion? I believe Clark Stanford published a paper showing the if fixture had a high initial RFA value it did not drop off at 3-4 weeks as many of us have been lead to believe.
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2010, 03:19 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

In other words, this implant will end up in the same niche place that Medtronic's Infuse did in Dental. It will not be used in all implant applications because of the risk of loosing the entire implant to infection. Blasted surfaces can at least be nursed back, but trabecular surfaces will carry a small infection throughout the body of an implant causing the entire implant to fail. Its not a guess, it will happen and you will see clinicians very quickly shy away from this implant. Good for Zimmer for moving in this direction, but its not going to make a difference. Its just another short term ploy to create buzz, but this ortho application will not be as predictable in Dental.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2010, 08:41 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
In other words, this implant will end up in the same niche place that Medtronic's Infuse did in Dental. It will not be used in all implant applications because of the risk of loosing the entire implant to infection. Blasted surfaces can at least be nursed back, but trabecular surfaces will carry a small infection throughout the body of an implant causing the entire implant to fail. Its not a guess, it will happen and you will see clinicians very quickly shy away from this implant. Good for Zimmer for moving in this direction, but its not going to make a difference. Its just another short term ploy to create buzz, but this ortho application will not be as predictable in Dental.
All I can say is you are wrong.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2010, 09:43 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Actually Implant Direct has a knock off of the Trabecular bone implant coming out, its called
"The Re-Trabecular Bone" implant. Should be out the day after Zimmer launches theirs.
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2010, 09:50 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

To the dentist this will sound a lot like another zimmer innovation from orthopedics - HA coatings. Even though they are different materials there is some credence to the concerns about infection that are justified. Also for immediate load the design of the implant is just as/ more important than the surface.

Will look forward to the data on this implant before passing judgement.
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  #10  
Old 09-15-2010, 06:33 PM
Robert56 Robert56 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Wow
you guys are smart
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2010, 05:58 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Actually Implant Direct has a knock off of the Trabecular bone implant coming out, its called
"The Re-Trabecular Bone" implant. Should be out the day after Zimmer launches theirs.
After porous surface implants like TPS and Innova beads, it is unlikely that Niznick is going to change surfaces. After all, Zimmer is claiming 99% success with the Tapered Screw that Jerry sold them 9 years ago, so what improvement can one expect over those numbers. As for earlier loading, you can not get earlier than "immediate" and that is what you can do with any implant if it gets enough initial stabiltiy. Stability is enhanced with thread engagement....trabecular metal sections will be absent threads most likely.
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2012, 09:59 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Lol Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
After porous surface implants like TPS and Innova beads, it is unlikely that Niznick is going to change surfaces. After all, Zimmer is claiming 99% success with the Tapered Screw that Jerry sold them 9 years ago, so what improvement can one expect over those numbers. As for earlier loading, you can not get earlier than "immediate" and that is what you can do with any implant if it gets enough initial stabiltiy. Stability is enhanced with thread engagement....trabecular metal sections will be absent threads most likely.
Hey geniouses, get ready to get bi*%# slapped. Surgeons are placing and "FULLY RESTORING" these new Trabecular Metal Dental Implants in less than 1 month. I have seen them reverse torqued in the office after being in the mouth for only 2 weeks and they are solid. Tell me one other competitive product that even comes close. After Zimmer takes the #1 Market position and all of you bullsh$t competitive Reps are on the street wondering what happend to your cushy jobs, maybe you will really appreciate what is happening in Dental right now and get used to the unemployment line.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2012, 11:17 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Did I just read post after post written by the same person?
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  #14  
Old 04-18-2012, 07:24 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Hey geniouses, get ready to get bi*%# slapped. Surgeons are placing and "FULLY RESTORING" these new Trabecular Metal Dental Implants in less than 1 month. I have seen them reverse torqued in the office after being in the mouth for only 2 weeks and they are solid. Tell me one other competitive product that even comes close. After Zimmer takes the #1 Market position and all of you bullsh$t competitive Reps are on the street wondering what happend to your cushy jobs, maybe you will really appreciate what is happening in Dental right now and get used to the unemployment line.
Unfortunately, most implant placing dentists don't care about "speed of restoring" the implant. They care how much it is going to cost. They don't care about how much happier their patients will be having their case finished that quickly. They will whine about having to pay $200 more for the implant and say "my patients don't care how fast it gets restored".
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  #15  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:57 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Unfortunately, most implant placing dentists don't care about "speed of restoring" the implant. They care how much it is going to cost. They don't care about how much happier their patients will be having their case finished that quickly. They will whine about having to pay $200 more for the implant and say "my patients don't care how fast it gets restored".
This product is selling like crazy accorss the US. Surgeons are treatment planning this product at a higher price point to cover their additional matierial cost and actually making more profit to boot. Raising your Implant fee by $500 over the norm is working wonderfully and patients are more than willing to pay the extra $$$ for the latest technology and the highest level of service. Not only do the patients care how fast it gets restored, the Referalls really care as their ability to collect 5x faster is something they are really interested in. What business school did you drop out of?
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:25 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Lol Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

"Raising your Implant fee by $500 over the norm is working wonderfully and patients are more than willing to pay the extra $$$ for the latest technology and the highest level of service."

Working wonderfully. They LIKE being charged $ 500 more per unit...

You should go to DC and work for Vladimir Hope & Change. He's going to need all the help like this he can get.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:14 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
This product is selling like crazy accorss the US. Surgeons are treatment planning this product at a higher price point to cover their additional matierial cost and actually making more profit to boot. Raising your Implant fee by $500 over the norm is working wonderfully and patients are more than willing to pay the extra $$$ for the latest technology and the highest level of service. Not only do the patients care how fast it gets restored, the Referalls really care as their ability to collect 5x faster is something they are really interested in. What business school did you drop out of?
Ya, I'm sure surgeons are raising their fees $500 and patients are jumping at it. Surgeons have no clue how to upsell a patient. And if they were able to have a patient accept a $500 raise, they'd STILL get cheap and buy a lower priced implant.

Stop making shit up.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:13 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Ya, I'm sure surgeons are raising their fees $500 and patients are jumping at it. Surgeons have no clue how to upsell a patient. And if they were able to have a patient accept a $500 raise, they'd STILL get cheap and buy a lower priced implant.

Stop making shit up.
You must be one of the Competitive Reps bad mouthing the product. The Trabecular Metal Implant is selling like crazy. Almost $1 million in Sales in less than 3 months on the market. Do you think Surgeons are "eating the extra cost". NO. Stop telling yourself that it won't work when it clearly is working. Jerry doesn't have a clone copy for this one. Just because you tell yourself that your cheap shit Implants are good at your self help meetings, doesn't make them good. You are responsible for clueless patients getting the lowest quality products on the market. I can't imagine how well you sleep at night.
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  #19  
Old 04-19-2012, 08:09 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
You must be one of the Competitive Reps bad mouthing the product. The Trabecular Metal Implant is selling like crazy. Almost $1 million in Sales in less than 3 months on the market. Do you think Surgeons are "eating the extra cost". NO. Stop telling yourself that it won't work when it clearly is working. Jerry doesn't have a clone copy for this one. Just because you tell yourself that your cheap shit Implants are good at your self help meetings, doesn't make them good. You are responsible for clueless patients getting the lowest quality products on the market. I can't imagine how well you sleep at night.
Why do you ASSume I work for a competitor? I don't. And "almost $1 mil in 3 months" isn't that good when you figure it costs $400+. That calculates out to about 20 implants/rep. That's only 1 or 2 surgeons in each territory buying. Big deal.
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  #20  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:59 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Pure comedy gold. The state-of-the-implant ground game. With laser-like intellect like this, no wonder America is doomed.

"Just because you tell yourself that your cheap shit Implants are good at your self help meetings, doesn't make them good. You are responsible for clueless patients getting the lowest quality products on the market. I can't imagine how well you sleep at night."

You should try out for the TSA. They need more brainwashed goons.
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2012, 09:57 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Seems that the Z rep has some anger management issues. Easy man, wouldn't want you to have a stroke or a heart attack.
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  #22  
Old 04-20-2012, 07:35 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Why do you ASSume I work for a competitor? I don't. And "almost $1 mil in 3 months" isn't that good when you figure it costs $400+. That calculates out to about 20 implants/rep. That's only 1 or 2 surgeons in each territory buying. Big deal.
The funny thing is that a lot of the Surgeons placing this New Implant are Competitive. So that means instant Market share grab for Zimmer. Look at what happened in Orthopeadic. Zimmer had a #3 Market position before Trabecular Metal came out in 1998. They are now #1 and are larger than every other Orthopeadic Company combined together worldwide. Zimmer Dental is in about the same place and Trabecular Metal has the legs to walk it right into #1 Market Share in Dental.
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  #23  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:46 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
The funny thing is that a lot of the Surgeons placing this New Implant are Competitive. So that means instant Market share grab for Zimmer. Look at what happened in Orthopeadic. Zimmer had a #3 Market position before Trabecular Metal came out in 1998. They are now #1 and are larger than every other Orthopeadic Company combined together worldwide. Zimmer Dental is in about the same place and Trabecular Metal has the legs to walk it right into #1 Market Share in Dental.
Keep drinking the baby blue koolaid!
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  #24  
Old 04-20-2012, 08:11 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
The funny thing is that a lot of the Surgeons placing this New Implant are Competitive. So that means instant Market share grab for Zimmer. Look at what happened in Orthopeadic. Zimmer had a #3 Market position before Trabecular Metal came out in 1998. They are now #1 and are larger than every other Orthopeadic Company combined together worldwide. Zimmer Dental is in about the same place and Trabecular Metal has the legs to walk it right into #1 Market Share in Dental.
Big difference between orthopedic and dental. Just ask the guys who used to sell Infuse. Plenty of precedents for ortho ideas having catastrophic failures in dental. Who knows what will happen? Hopefully, for their patients, Zimmer didn't jump the gun here.

But let's say it really does work- is there any question that Jerry will have something similar out within the next year for less than half the price and continue to pound Zimmer into the bloody lifeless carcass that they are now?
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  #25  
Old 04-20-2012, 08:22 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Big difference between orthopedic and dental. Just ask the guys who used to sell Infuse. Plenty of precedents for ortho ideas having catastrophic failures in dental. Who knows what will happen? Hopefully, for their patients, Zimmer didn't jump the gun here.

But let's say it really does work- is there any question that Jerry will have something similar out within the next year for less than half the price and continue to pound Zimmer into the bloody lifeless carcass that they are now?
Jerry is a "has been". Jerry could never be smart enough to figure out what J&J, Striker, Biomet, and Synthese have been trying to figure out for 14 years now. Face it, you work for the biggest tool box who ever lived. He did somthing great 30 years ago and is still riding that success into the ground. Keep working for that guy and your career will be nonexistant in 5 years.
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  #26  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:34 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Jerry is a "has been". Jerry could never be smart enough to figure out what J&J, Striker, Biomet, and Synthese have been trying to figure out for 14 years now. Face it, you work for the biggest tool box who ever lived. He did somthing great 30 years ago and is still riding that success into the ground. Keep working for that guy and your career will be nonexistant in 5 years.
Well, this post tells the world the level of the brain trust working at Zimmer today. You are spewing what you heard some speaker say. For the record: J&J's ortho division is DePuy. "Striker" is spelled Stryker. Synthese is spelled Synthes. You have a 75% failure rate.

Another one wrong- I don't work for Jerry and never have. But, as an astute competitor, I know my competitors and their products better than most of them- and obviously know yours better than you.

One final correction- Jerry invented the internal connection 26 years ago- not 30.

Wow- keep on with those rigorous hiring practices, Zimmer! Were you working for Yellowbook last week? Or maybe Verizon? Hertz?

Hahahahahahahaha!
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  #27  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:02 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Well, this post tells the world the level of the brain trust working at Zimmer today. You are spewing what you heard some speaker say. For the record: J&J's ortho division is DePuy. "Striker" is spelled Stryker. Synthese is spelled Synthes. You have a 75% failure rate.

Another one wrong- I don't work for Jerry and never have. But, as an astute competitor, I know my competitors and their products better than most of them- and obviously know yours better than you.

One final correction- Jerry invented the internal connection 26 years ago- not 30.

Wow- keep on with those rigorous hiring practices, Zimmer! Were you working for Yellowbook last week? Or maybe Verizon? Hertz?

Hahahahahahahaha!
Yeah sure, you are an astute competitor. More of a total "Ass" I might say. I'm glad you don't work for Zimmer. Obviously the company you do work for must be sucking major wind right now if they chose to hire a complete deuce bag like you.
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:46 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Yeah sure, you are an astute competitor. More of a total "Ass" I might say. I'm glad you don't work for Zimmer. Obviously the company you do work for must be sucking major wind right now if they chose to hire a complete deuce bag like you.
I am an ass?

You are calling me names, like a second grader.

Really? That's the best you could come up with?

No wonder Implant Direct is eating your lunch. You are nowhere near ready to go toe to toe with me, rookie.

Those Zimmer hires never fail to impress... HAHAHAhahahahaa!
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  #29  
Old 04-21-2012, 07:49 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Lol Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
I am an ass?

You are calling me names, like a second grader.

Really? That's the best you could come up with?

No wonder Implant Direct is eating your lunch. You are nowhere near ready to go toe to toe with me, rookie.

Those Zimmer hires never fail to impress... HAHAHAhahahahaa!
I'm no rookie. I've got 6 years. How about you? I have also taken accounts away from you every year because of the low quality shit you sell. Thanks. Its funny that you guys tell the Dr.'s to use our Surgical Kit to place your cheap ass Implants. Implant Direct has never been able to take 1 decent Account away from me in 6 years. Even at the peak of this awefull economy in 2009. What does that say about your Company? What does that say about you? Your resume is so impressive that you could only get a job selling the lowest quality products for an abortion of a Company where you have no Sales Quota's. Sounds like a real Class A organization.
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:04 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

All bow down this rep with 6 years of experience! Will you be my mentor and best friend? Will you teach me all there is about dental implants and how to act like a second grader? Will you guide me through the difficult jungle of dental specialists and GP's ? Will you show me how to cry like a baby when I get picked on with funny and truthful posts on cafe pharma.. Please, please with sugar on top. You are my hero!
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  #31  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:15 AM
Anonymous
 
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Arms Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
All bow down this rep with 6 years of experience! Will you be my mentor and best friend? Will you teach me all there is about dental implants and how to act like a second grader? Will you guide me through the difficult jungle of dental specialists and GP's ? Will you show me how to cry like a baby when I get picked on with funny and truthful posts on cafe pharma.. Please, please with sugar on top. You are my hero!
You are such a tool. How many times do you tell yourself in the mirror every morning that you are a confident, good looking, sharp sales person that works for a good solid stable company with a future? You live a sad life. Enjoy the clone wars that are taking place right now. Interlock is selling in the US for $59 through distributors. I bet they are eating your lunch right now because "low price" is all that you sell on. Right?
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  #32  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:18 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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You are such a tool. How many times do you tell yourself in the mirror every morning that you are a confident, good looking, sharp sales person that works for a good solid stable company with a future? You live a sad life. Enjoy the clone wars that are taking place right now. Interlock is selling in the US for $59 through distributors. I bet they are eating your lunch right now because "low price" is all that you sell on. Right?
Interlock!!! lol

You must be kidding!

The brain trust at Zimmer is astounding! It is Intra-lock. How many competitors can you list and spell properly?

We all laugh at you in the field the way we are here!

By the way, as I said before, I don't work for Niz. My salary alone is 30% higher than what his reps make with quota any given year. Please pay attention.
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  #33  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:27 AM
Anonymous
 
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Thumbs up Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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Interlock!!! lol

You must be kidding!

The brain trust at Zimmer is astounding! It is Intra-lock. How many competitors can you list and spell properly?

We all laugh at you in the field the way we are here!

By the way, as I said before, I don't work for Niz. My salary alone is 30% higher than what his reps make with quota any given year. Please pay attention.
Who cares about the spelling. Are you trying out for Jeopardy? I bet you work for a low market share clone Company with 0 future. Thats why they pay you so much money. Because they have to bribe people to sell their worthless crap to the market. You pay attention moron.
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:32 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Who discounts their prices to lower than MIS, ID BlueSky etc? Zimmer does, not Straumann or Astra, not Nobel, not 3i, only Zimmer is cutting their prices lower than the cheap implants. Straumann and Astra do not have to discount to keep their customers. So there crybaby. My monthly quota is more than your yearly quota little Z rep. Get your blankey and pacifier and go to bed. WaWaWa tell it to your mommy little boy!
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  #35  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:40 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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Who discounts their prices to lower than MIS, ID BlueSky etc? Zimmer does, not Straumann or Astra, not Nobel, not 3i, only Zimmer is cutting their prices lower than the cheap implants. Straumann and Astra do not have to discount to keep their customers. So there crybaby. My monthly quota is more than your yearly quota little Z rep. Get your blankey and pacifier and go to bed. WaWaWa tell it to your mommy little boy!
Zimmer is now selling its new Implants for $450 with $0 discounting. That is more than what your inferior technology costs. Zimmer has never discounted lower than clones. Wake up dude. Also, I could list hundreds of accounts that get pretty deep discounts from Staumann, Nobel, Astra and especially 3i. What fantasy do you live in?
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  #36  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:41 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Who discounts their prices to lower than MIS, ID BlueSky etc? Zimmer does, not Straumann or Astra, not Nobel, not 3i, only Zimmer is cutting their prices lower than the cheap implants. Straumann and Astra do not have to discount to keep their customers. So there crybaby. My monthly quota is more than your yearly quota little Z rep. Get your blankey and pacifier and go to bed. WaWaWa tell it to your mommy little boy!
Correction (early) $495 with $0 discounting. Keep grasping at those straws dude. You are a total loser.
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  #37  
Old 04-21-2012, 12:11 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

TSV $150.00 in all area of the US. Keep dreaming if you think a surgeon will choose to pay you $459.00 for a dog tested implant made of a metal that has had several recalls in orthopedic uses, over a Straumann or Astra you really are crazy. What planet do you live on? BTW from what I hear the first doctors to take the plunge with this new implant (with a free implant provided by Zimmer) are GP's. We hear you buddy and so do the men in the little white suits.
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  #38  
Old 04-21-2012, 12:31 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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Who cares about the spelling. Are you trying out for Jeopardy? I bet you work for a low market share clone Company with 0 future. Thats why they pay you so much money. Because they have to bribe people to sell their worthless crap to the market. You pay attention moron.
People who pay attention to detail do. For example, clinicians who look at bone resorption over 5 years in the 10ths of millimeters.

So if I am understanding what you just said, I am paid very well so that I can sell my worthless crap? lol I am actually paid well to help docs see through the smoke that entry level reps like you blow into their eyes to try to get them to pay nearly $500 for an untested implant. I give them the logic and science that cuts through your cloud of orthopedic fluff untested in the oral cavity like a hot knife through butter. That is why the only clinicians that I work with who have those implants on their shelf were *given* them.

And there they sit... Kinda like you- sitting there trying to think of a logical reply to my searing commentary.
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  #39  
Old 04-21-2012, 12:47 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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People who pay attention to detail do. For example, clinicians who look at bone resorption over 5 years in the 10ths of millimeters.

So if I am understanding what you just said, I am paid very well so that I can sell my worthless crap? lol I am actually paid well to help docs see through the smoke that entry level reps like you blow into their eyes to try to get them to pay nearly $500 for an untested implant. I give them the logic and science that cuts through your cloud of orthopedic fluff untested in the oral cavity like a hot knife through butter. That is why the only clinicians that I work with who have those implants on their shelf were *given* them.

And there they sit... Kinda like you- sitting there trying to think of a logical reply to my searing commentary.
Rookie comment. The Trabecular Metal Technology has been in Orthopeadic for 14 years an is what took Zimmer from the #3 to the #1 Market position worldwide. It was not just tested in dogs in Dental. A Human Dental Impalnt trial was completed which is what the FDA based its approval on for Zimmer to start selling it in the US. Are you saying that you know better than the FDA? Zimmer has never given out Implants. Ever. We are the "only" fully ADVAMED Compliant organization in the industry. Your so called "searing commentary" is rookie, uninformed, petty and completely ignorant. All of your so called logic and science that you give them is Company marketing fluff from a Company who cloned Internal Connections from Jerry Niznick in 1986. Had it not been for that, your Company probably would not exist.
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  #40  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:04 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
TSV $150.00 in all area of the US. Keep dreaming if you think a surgeon will choose to pay you $459.00 for a dog tested implant made of a metal that has had several recalls in orthopedic uses, over a Straumann or Astra you really are crazy. What planet do you live on? BTW from what I hear the first doctors to take the plunge with this new implant (with a free implant provided by Zimmer) are GP's. We hear you buddy and so do the men in the little white suits.
Every 1 of the 16 Early Market Evaluation Dr.'s was a Surgeon. Majority Oral Surgeons and the rest Periodontists. Keep grasping for straws loser. Your ship is sinking fast!
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  #41  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:11 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

I am totally enjoying you making a fool out of yourself.
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2012, 05:08 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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I am totally enjoying you making a fool out of yourself.
Stop embarassing yourself. You have not made 1 valid point in the entire thread. Go back to your Tony Robbins self help club or better yet "back to selling Goji Juice" as supplemental income
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  #43  
Old 04-21-2012, 06:51 PM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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Stop embarassing yourself. You have not made 1 valid point in the entire thread. Go back to your Tony Robbins self help club or better yet "back to selling Goji Juice" as supplemental income
There you go again.

Pay attention.

Are you reading anything I've written? Rather than reply, please go reread my valid points against your aging relic of a company, and try to defend it with anything other than "blah blah blah orthopedic, blah blah blah #3 to #1, blah blah blah niznick"

Hahahahahaha

That's me laughing at you Mr. Zimmer/Kool-Aid
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  #44  
Old 04-22-2012, 07:52 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
People who pay attention to detail do. For example, clinicians who look at bone resorption over 5 years in the 10ths of millimeters.

So if I am understanding what you just said, I am paid very well so that I can sell my worthless crap? lol I am actually paid well to help docs see through the smoke that entry level reps like you blow into their eyes to try to get them to pay nearly $500 for an untested implant. I give them the logic and science that cuts through your cloud of orthopedic fluff untested in the oral cavity like a hot knife through butter. That is why the only clinicians that I work with who have those implants on their shelf were *given* them.

And there they sit... Kinda like you- sitting there trying to think of a logical reply to my searing commentary.
LOL Even though I think you're both stupid, I wish you worked in my market. Yes, I work for Zimmer and you are exactly the rep I like to compete with. You're so full of yourself and your "searing" blab is no different than the other posts you so eagerly share with everyone. In truth, we're laughing at you both. Keep it up - I'm sure you're making yourself proud.
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  #45  
Old 04-22-2012, 08:08 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Lol Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Both of you guys PLEASE shut the F@ck up!

Both of you sound like those two old dudes who argue all the time in "Trading Places."

One word to shut you guys up>>>> ENCODE!

Sure, the Zimmer Rep can talk to the surgeon about their "better mouse-trap," while the others talks about how it's way too expensive for unproven technology in the dental arena.

Meanwhile, I'm sneaking in there and saying "oh, Mr. Specialist, remember that 3i case with Dr. So and So, yeah, here are pics of the final restoration, based simply off a scan that you did for Dr. So and So. How much did the restoration cost you ask Dr. Specialist? It cost the GP less than $600. Yes, Dr. Specialist, the case was there waiting for the patient first visit with the GP two weeks after your scan. Your welcome, it was a pleasure working with the GP group practice. In fact, they asked me if I sold the iTero. By the way, how is your inventory, I see you have a bunch of those new Zimmer Trabecular Implants. How they working for you? Oh, you've yet to try them? Maybe I can do a competitive switch just this one time. Yeah, I know the Zimmer rep tries hard, but the GP's want what they want. Tell the Zimmer rep that I may need an Associate Rep if they are interested. Yes, you can pass my phone number, just make sure they understand the compensation is greater than what they are making now. Oh, yes, we pay from dollar 1, they get paid on growth. Listen, if they are a quality rep, I'll listen to them, I have interviews lined up all next week.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend you idiots!
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  #46  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:38 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Both of you guys PLEASE shut the F@ck up!

Both of you sound like those two old dudes who argue all the time in "Trading Places."

One word to shut you guys up>>>> ENCODE!

Sure, the Zimmer Rep can talk to the surgeon about their "better mouse-trap," while the others talks about how it's way too expensive for unproven technology in the dental arena.

Meanwhile, I'm sneaking in there and saying "oh, Mr. Specialist, remember that 3i case with Dr. So and So, yeah, here are pics of the final restoration, based simply off a scan that you did for Dr. So and So. How much did the restoration cost you ask Dr. Specialist? It cost the GP less than $600. Yes, Dr. Specialist, the case was there waiting for the patient first visit with the GP two weeks after your scan. Your welcome, it was a pleasure working with the GP group practice. In fact, they asked me if I sold the iTero. By the way, how is your inventory, I see you have a bunch of those new Zimmer Trabecular Implants. How they working for you? Oh, you've yet to try them? Maybe I can do a competitive switch just this one time. Yeah, I know the Zimmer rep tries hard, but the GP's want what they want. Tell the Zimmer rep that I may need an Associate Rep if they are interested. Yes, you can pass my phone number, just make sure they understand the compensation is greater than what they are making now. Oh, yes, we pay from dollar 1, they get paid on growth. Listen, if they are a quality rep, I'll listen to them, I have interviews lined up all next week.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend you idiots!
Yeah paid from Dollar 1 with $0 in Total Sales annually. Great gig. Sell your soul to sell shitty products, hurt clueless patients, and make no money while they change your comp structure every 6 months. Great career. Keep talking man. This is hilarious!
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  #47  
Old 04-22-2012, 11:25 AM
Anonymous
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
Both of you guys PLEASE shut the F@ck up!

Both of you sound like those two old dudes who argue all the time in "Trading Places."

One word to shut you guys up>>>> ENCODE!

Sure, the Zimmer Rep can talk to the surgeon about their "better mouse-trap," while the others talks about how it's way too expensive for unproven technology in the dental arena.

Meanwhile, I'm sneaking in there and saying "oh, Mr. Specialist, remember that 3i case with Dr. So and So, yeah, here are pics of the final restoration, based simply off a scan that you did for Dr. So and So. How much did the restoration cost you ask Dr. Specialist? It cost the GP less than $600. Yes, Dr. Specialist, the case was there waiting for the patient first visit with the GP two weeks after your scan. Your welcome, it was a pleasure working with the GP group practice. In fact, they asked me if I sold the iTero. By the way, how is your inventory, I see you have a bunch of those new Zimmer Trabecular Implants. How they working for you? Oh, you've yet to try them? Maybe I can do a competitive switch just this one time. Yeah, I know the Zimmer rep tries hard, but the GP's want what they want. Tell the Zimmer rep that I may need an Associate Rep if they are interested. Yes, you can pass my phone number, just make sure they understand the compensation is greater than what they are making now. Oh, yes, we pay from dollar 1, they get paid on growth. Listen, if they are a quality rep, I'll listen to them, I have interviews lined up all next week.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend you idiots!
Oh yeah.....hows encode doing in the anterior when someone wants to provisionalize? I'm sure taking the impression in that case is simple, just like the posterior. When ur next surface comes out how are you going to answer for the fact that it doesn't have nanotite tech? Also, I heard the new Osseotite is not made from an alloy, why is that? Please explain....Its like throwing a whole bunch of shit against the wall and hoping something sticks.
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  #48  
Old 04-22-2012, 11:59 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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Yeah paid from Dollar 1 with $0 in Total Sales annually. Great gig. Sell your soul to sell shitty products, hurt clueless patients, and make no money while they change your comp structure every 6 months. Great career. Keep talking man. This is hilarious!
What good is an encode abutment if the implants keep falling out of the patient's mouths?

3i beating anybody outside of Palm Beach County? HAHAHAHAHahahahahah

I think you just named the only company hemorrhaging customers worse than Nobel!
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  #49  
Old 04-22-2012, 02:33 PM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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What good is an encode abutment if the implants keep falling out of the patient's mouths?

3i beating anybody outside of Palm Beach County? HAHAHAHAHahahahahah

I think you just named the only company hemorrhaging customers worse than Nobel!
I hear they are getting kicked to the curb in their back yard as well. 3i sucks period.
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  #50  
Old 04-23-2012, 07:35 AM
Anonymous
 
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Default Re: Any truth to Zimmer's trabecular implant?

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I hear they are getting kicked to the curb in their back yard as well. 3i sucks period.
Take a look at the numbers disclosed by Biomet itself. Although we are private, we follow the same accounting principles as set forth by the GAAP.

With that said, we release our earnings prior to ANY major player to set the precedent of earning season. So if you were to turn to the page where it list 3i's contribution to Biomet, you would see positive high single digit to low double digit growth in each quarter for this fiscal.

As for Nobel, there stock is used for toilet paper. Straumman has respect on my end, but it's the same story, they are a pain to do biz with.

As for Zimmer, guys, the numbers don't lie, you guys are god awful.

Implant Direct has little effect. I will tell you MIS seems to be the best player in the value market.

Yes, we get paid from dollar one. Don't hate it, come join us. We may have an opening or two, and no, we don't cover relocation cost.
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