Cameron Health Bought

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...ionNews&rpc=43

Yawn......

Ever seen one of these patients post implant? Bruised like no ther bruise. Tunneling a lead is pretty barbaric.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...ionNews&rpc=43

That's too bad. I was hoping that technology could get a fair shot at not being recalled.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

That's too bad. I was hoping that technology could get a fair shot at not being recalled.

Looks like they paid face value to start - $150 million is less that what investors had into it, I think.

Another $150 million for FDA approval? Sounds fair, but now BSC is on the hook for the clinical.


And then ALL of the profits for the next 7 or so years up to $1 billion. No, that's not the best deal.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Looks like they paid face value to start - $150 million is less that what investors had into it, I think.

Another $150 million for FDA approval? Sounds fair, but now BSC is on the hook for the clinical.


And then ALL of the profits for the next 7 or so years up to $1 billion. No, that's not the best deal.

Lmao at you clowns. Bruising, recall on 1 premature depletion etc... Truth is leading EP's across the country are calling asking for training NOW. Much like our 2005 recalls create our competitor stj (cellar dweller prior to 05) stj and mdt have created our market with fidelis, Riata, Durata!!!!! Have you boys ever seen a fidelis/Riata/Durata failure or extraction? Or how about one of the many many mdt/stj ICD premature depletions? So a big thank you goes out to your engineering/manufacturing depts for creating a healthy demand. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Lmao at you clowns. Bruising, recall on 1 premature depletion etc... Truth is leading EP's across the country are calling asking for training NOW. Much like our 2005 recalls create our competitor stj (cellar dweller prior to 05) stj and mdt have created our market with fidelis, Riata, Durata!!!!! Have you boys ever seen a fidelis/Riata/Durata failure or extraction? Or how about one of the many many mdt/stj ICD premature depletions? So a big thank you goes out to your engineering/manufacturing depts for creating a healthy demand. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

You're a complete moron. Have you seen the size of these things and where they are implanted? and their target pt's are kids???? Rediculous!!! How about longevity? 5 years! Joke! How do you DFT? How do you know if the device will rescue after implant? BSX is buying this company for the sensing technology and that is all!!!! I admit the sensing technology is pretty cool...but that's all they want it for you dumb ass!!! Why do you think ICD's have "post shock pacing" back-up that this device does not have???

Love your comment about "leading EP's asking for training"....implanting a shock only device under the arm pit needs training??? What a F******g Dork! There's zero market for this device and EP's are not interested at all!!! Implanting cardiologist hacks might bite at this!!!
This is equal to having a Sub-Q in your bag....Wow!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Lmao at you clowns. Bruising, recall on 1 premature depletion etc... Truth is leading EP's across the country are calling asking for training NOW. Much like our 2005 recalls create our competitor stj (cellar dweller prior to 05) stj and mdt have created our market with fidelis, Riata, Durata!!!!! Have you boys ever seen a fidelis/Riata/Durata failure or extraction? Or how about one of the many many mdt/stj ICD premature depletions? So a big thank you goes out to your engineering/manufacturing depts for creating a healthy demand. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

Market for these products is tiny, tiny.

Implanting takes longer than a normal ICD, although, maybe not in a fluoro lab. No chance of pacing. Possibly lower price product.

But anyone older than 50 should be getting a defib with pacing, oops there goes 80% of the market.

Anyone who wants a smaller device, because she wears a bikini --- another 3%.

Just keeps getting smaller . . .

The biggest problem is this age-old med device question:

"Would you want this product implanted in your grandmother?"

Originally Posted by Anonymous

You're a complete moron. Have you seen the size of these things and where they are implanted? and their target pt's are kids???? Rediculous!!! How about longevity? 5 years! Joke! How do you DFT? How do you know if the device will rescue after implant? BSX is buying this company for the sensing technology and that is all!!!! I admit the sensing technology is pretty cool...but that's all they want it for you dumb ass!!! Why do you think ICD's have "post shock pacing" back-up that this device does not have???

Love your comment about "leading EP's asking for training"....implanting a shock only device under the arm pit needs training??? What a F******g Dork! There's zero market for this device and EP's are not interested at all!!! Implanting cardiologist hacks might bite at this!!!
This is equal to having a Sub-Q in your bag....Wow!

Spoken like a rep that downy have this device. Every implanter I all on wants this. And 5 years is a hell of a lot better than mdt and equal to stj. Keep trying to tell yourself this isn't huge. The response has been much more positive than I thought. Again - fidelis, Riata, Durata. Who would want any of those????? You boys are in trouble

Bsx will be bankrupt before this hits the market. More for the vultures to divide.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Spoken like a rep that downy have this device. Every implanter I all on wants this. And 5 years is a hell of a lot better than mdt and equal to stj. Keep trying to tell yourself this isn't huge. The response has been much more positive than I thought. Again - fidelis, Riata, Durata. Who would want any of those????? You boys are in trouble

Drink and write much do you? You would be a perfect rep for this product because you don't have know what you're talking about to sell it....the problem will be finding anyone as stupid as you to listen....

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Bsx will be bankrupt before this hits the market. More for the vultures to divide.

If anything, MDT and STJ will go bankrupt as soon as the Cameron Health ICD is approved by the FDA. MDT and STJ can't make leads, hence nobody buys from them anymore. BSX has a global monopoly in the CRM business now. Cameron Health purchase is just icing on the cake.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Drink and write much do you? You would be a perfect rep for this product because you don't have know what you're talking about to sell it....the problem will be finding anyone as stupid as you to listen....

Quite funny. Another EP just voiced his excitement today. See you have an emotional argument and I have facts. Say what u want, this is huge. I am actually suprised at how big this is going to be. So I actually could care less what the Riata/Durata/fidelis/quatro reps say. It is what it is - a true game changer.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Quite funny. Another EP just voiced his excitement today. See you have an emotional argument and I have facts. Say what u want, this is huge. I am actually suprised at how big this is going to be. So I actually could care less what the Riata/Durata/fidelis/quatro reps say. It is what it is - a true game changer.

A game changer? Not quite sure. Biphasic shocks were a game changer. This is simply the first positive news in your camp in awhile. Be happy. Calling this a game changer is a bit premature. Like your ejaculation.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

If anything, MDT and STJ will go bankrupt as soon as the Cameron Health ICD is approved by the FDA. MDT and STJ can't make leads, hence nobody buys from them anymore. BSX has a global monopoly in the CRM business now. Cameron Health purchase is just icing on the cake.

Phhhhhhhh phhhhhhhhhh....... Wanna pass some of that around?

Yeah, this Cameron deal is going to be awesome!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of getting 4% commission on a $14,000 ICD system, I'm going to get 4% on a $6,000 ICD.

That rocks. I can't wait to sell this!!!!!!!!!

Slow down a little here....

Excitement? Over what? The fact that BSX bought it? This product has Ben available for some time and it has been received by rolling eyes and cold shoulders. Sure, there is a niche market out there for this but to call this a game changer that will put SJM mad MDT out of business is a pipe dream. MDT is not going anywhere. In fact, one could argue that they do not really care about the CRM industry anymore. You could say that they are simply maintaining their presence as it is. As for SJM... As much as some of us love to throw daggers at their current situation, they are not going anywhere either. The Riata/Durata issue is going to take a few years to play itself completely out and they are piling up the $$ now with Quadpole and DF-4.

To call this a game changer is a huge stretch of the imagination. Sure, the niche might expand a little bit but what docs lose as far as programming options and availability of proven features (ATP, 2 leads for atrial diagnostics and many others) they do not gain much if anything on the S-ICD side.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Yeah, this Cameron deal is going to be awesome!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of getting 4% commission on a $14,000 ICD system, I'm going to get 4% on a $6,000 ICD.

That rocks. I can't wait to sell this!!!!!!!!!

Exactly!!! What would motivate you to implant this? ATP terminates 75% of vt so now you're just going to get a painful shock! What a stupid purchase by BSX when you have customers that already don't trust your technology and now you going to push an unproven ICD purchased by a little company with no history other than 1000 implants....this is a stupid thread full of lame ass responders!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Exactly!!! What would motivate you to implant this? ATP terminates 75% of vt so now you're just going to get a painful shock! What a stupid purchase by BSX when you have customers that already don't trust your technology and now you going to push an unproven ICD purchased by a little company with no history other than 1000 implants....this is a stupid thread full of lame ass responders!

"....this is a stupid thread full of lame ass responders!" - as are you. There is so much silly talk on this thread. BSX made a minimal investment in some interesting technology. Who knows where this will lead. Remember at one time the "experts" said an AICD was impossible to build. At another time the experts said endocardial tachy leads were impossible. Time will tell where this goes. Until then, what is the point of arguing about this?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Exactly!!! What would motivate you to implant this? ATP terminates 75% of vt so now you're just going to get a painful shock! What a stupid purchase by BSX when you have customers that already don't trust your technology and now you going to push an unproven ICD purchased by a little company with no history other than 1000 implants....this is a stupid thread full of lame ass responders!

What a retard. Do u sell Durata or quatro? Durata will be a class 1 recall soon. What the hell business do u have talking about trust???? Between fidelis and Riata and the way they were handled you have NO business discussing trust. Stj is an embarrassment to our industry. And who wants to implant you ask???? Well the stj doc that discussed w me today loves the idea of no lead to deal w. So there's one reason you tard. I actually feel sorry for u if u seriously can't figure out why someone would want to implant this. Again u have a weak argument. I will continue to enjoy taking even more biz from u boys once this is in my bag. So I'm done w this thread as time will tell and to b honest stj/mdt reps aren't worth the time.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

What a retard. Do u sell Durata or quatro? Durata will be a class 1 recall soon. What the hell business do u have talking about trust???? Between fidelis and Riata and the way they were handled you have NO business discussing trust. Stj is an embarrassment to our industry. And who wants to implant you ask???? Well the stj doc that discussed w me today loves the idea of no lead to deal w. So there's one reason you tard. I actually feel sorry for u if u seriously can't figure out why someone would want to implant this. Again u have a weak argument. I will continue to enjoy taking even more biz from u boys once this is in my bag. So I'm done w this thread as time will tell and to b honest stj/mdt reps aren't worth the time.

First you need a job to be able to sell.....you can tell by your complete lack of business sense that you're just some pissed off low level unemployed dork. You're very unconcivincing on all your failed points.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

What a retard. Do u sell Durata or quatro? Durata will be a class 1 recall soon. What the hell business do u have talking about trust???? Between fidelis and Riata and the way they were handled you have NO business discussing trust. Stj is an embarrassment to our industry. And who wants to implant you ask???? Well the stj doc that discussed w me today loves the idea of no lead to deal w. So there's one reason you tard. I actually feel sorry for u if u seriously can't figure out why someone would want to implant this. Again u have a weak argument. I will continue to enjoy taking even more biz from u boys once this is in my bag. So I'm done w this thread as time will tell and to b honest stj/mdt reps aren't worth the time.

When did you graduate ATI? 6 or 12 months ago? Did BSX stick you in a your own territory or are you a CS? Damn you're dumb. No CRM company is trustworthy, I doubt everything coming from corporate. You need to weed through the BS. Please talk to your docs like you talk here. It will help whoever is competing against you.

Trust? From a BSX rep? Ridiculous! Trust from a CRM rep? Very rare.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Quite funny. Another EP just voiced his excitement today. See you have an emotional argument and I have facts. Say what u want, this is huge. I am actually suprised at how big this is going to be. So I actually could care less what the Riata/Durata/fidelis/quatro reps say. It is what it is - a true game changer.

I mean this sincerely....your game changer could and NEEDS to be your new line of traditional ICDS and BIVS. In this case, the game change would be finally releasing a can that doesn't eventually become subject to an advisory or recall. Those are the devices that appeal to the majority of implanters TODAY.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I mean this sincerely....your game changer could and NEEDS to be your new line of traditional ICDS and BIVS. In this case, the game change would be finally releasing a can that doesn't eventually become subject to an advisory or recall. Those are the devices that appeal to the majority of implanters TODAY.

Good luck trying to get any EP interested in trained on a new unproven technology that they will implant in 1% of their pt's....they will say no thanks and stick with proven, longer lasting devices. Again, BSX doesn't want the device for all the reasons we've noted....no DFT capability, No pacing, unproven data, size, 5 yr longevity, etc...All BSX wants is the sensing technology...period. BSX will figure out a way to apply that to a smaller device with longer battery life and now you have something to sell.....years away from being on the market....it is just part of the race all the Big 3 are in to produce leadless devices.

Maybe you should look at market shares in Europe achieved with nearly zero sales reps before you say this will not have an impact on your business. Might be a good idea to talk doctors that have used the product or even patients. Can you afford to let BSC back in every account? Can any of you afford to lose even 5 percent next year to this product? Every time you have serious complication from a TV lead you will lose more credibility and sales since there will be an alternative.

Going to be at least a year. The excitement will die down.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Maybe you should look at market shares in Europe achieved with nearly zero sales reps before you say this will not have an impact on your business. Might be a good idea to talk doctors that have used the product or even patients. Can you afford to let BSC back in every account? Can any of you afford to lose even 5 percent next year to this product? Every time you have serious complication from a TV lead you will lose more credibility and sales since there will be an alternative.

Market share in Europe????? There's only 1000 implants worldwide...that doesn't even register on a market share basis.....you're a freakin clown!!!! Since BSX is locked out of my acct's for at least the next 2 years. I am hardly concerned about BSX.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Maybe you should look at market shares in Europe achieved with nearly zero sales reps before you say this will not have an impact on your business. Might be a good idea to talk doctors that have used the product or even patients. Can you afford to let BSC back in every account? Can any of you afford to lose even 5 percent next year to this product? Every time you have serious complication from a TV lead you will lose more credibility and sales since there will be an alternative.

If this was leading edge technology do you really think BSX would be the high bidder???? Really???? BSX was the only company stupid enough to bite and the funny thing is the company, Cameron Health, is loaded with ex-BSX rejects that were riffed or fired so I hope they get to cash in on the company that once screwed them!!! Fate is funny!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Lmao at you clowns. Bruising, recall on 1 premature depletion etc... Truth is leading EP's across the country are calling asking for training NOW. Much like our 2005 recalls create our competitor stj (cellar dweller prior to 05) stj and mdt have created our market with fidelis, Riata, Durata!!!!! Have you boys ever seen a fidelis/Riata/Durata failure or extraction? Or how about one of the many many mdt/stj ICD premature depletions? So a big thank you goes out to your engineering/manufacturing depts for creating a healthy demand. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

I am reminded of a line from Princess Bride - "I know too many Spaniards." In regards to bruising and tunneling leads etc. I have this too say... "I know too many engineers." Actually - you don't have to know them - just read about leads in the paper from SJM. Seriously - it doen't take a rocket scientist or lead scientist to know that wires bursting out of the jacket just isn't good. - If my heart is prone to stop -please jump start me with this new technology.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

If this was leading edge technology do you really think BSX would be the high bidder???? Really???? BSX was the only company stupid enough to bite and the funny thing is the company, Cameron Health, is loaded with ex-BSX rejects that were riffed or fired so I hope they get to cash in on the company that once screwed them!!! Fate is funny!

yes really, douche bag. BSX provided start-up funding for Cameron and had exclusivity...

Originally Posted by Anonymous

If this was leading edge technology do you really think BSX would be the high bidder???? Really???? BSX was the only company stupid enough to bite and the funny thing is the company, Cameron Health, is loaded with ex-BSX rejects that were riffed or fired so I hope they get to cash in on the company that once screwed them!!! Fate is funny!

The latter part is true-lots of former BSX with Cameron, however, it is a positive move on the part of BSX...why not exploit a potential disruptive technology..Cameron hasnt done much yet and the technology has not been proven in the marketplace, so it was not going to do well with Wall Steet on its own, however there is not much downside to purchasing the company now to see where it leads-no pun intended...

Why do you guys think this will be a cheap device? Price in Europe..? Same as a DR..!!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Why do you guys think this will be a cheap device? Price in Europe..? Same as a DR..!!!

same price w/leads? or just device price comparison?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The latter part is true-lots of former BSX with Cameron, however, it is a positive move on the part of BSX...why not exploit a potential disruptive technology..Cameron hasnt done much yet and the technology has not been proven in the marketplace, so it was not going to do well with Wall Steet on its own, however there is not much downside to purchasing the company now to see where it leads-no pun intended...

if you had a choice to put this in your son or daughter today, would you do it over the current dvices available and why? Assuming normal anatomy.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

if you had a choice to put this in your son or daughter today, would you do it over the current dvices available and why? Assuming normal anatomy.

Definitely not. I'd do a Reliance G with a MDT defib. Atrial lead too, not sure which one, probably CapSure.

Should last at least 10 years and be replaceable if/when something breaks.


This is an OK buy for Boston, though. $150million is pretty cheap up front and the rest of the price is based on actually hitting targets.

Compare that to Intelect, which was $78 million and they got nothing.

Anyone that thinks EP's are clamoring for this device . . . is a little crazy. The downsides fill a page and the upside is cheaper and MAYBE less lead breakage (not proven at all).

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Definitely not. I'd do a Reliance G with a MDT defib. Atrial lead too, not sure which one, probably CapSure.

Should last at least 10 years and be replaceable if/when something breaks.


This is an OK buy for Boston, though. $150million is pretty cheap up front and the rest of the price is based on actually hitting targets.

Compare that to Intelect, which was $78 million and they got nothing.

Anyone that thinks EP's are clamoring for this device . . . is a little crazy. The downsides fill a page and the upside is cheaper and MAYBE less lead breakage (not proven at all).

Could be a good defensive move as well. Like you said, pretty cheap up front and holding exclusivity keeps the other guys from exploiting the technology against them.

Also, I can't deny that my first response to this was: "Ballsy". Everyone else seems to be rocked back in their heels - here's a CRM company doing something other than a stock buyback with their money....leveraged as it may be.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

if you had a choice to put this in your son or daughter today, would you do it over the current dvices available and why? Assuming normal anatomy.

No..not ready yet, but remember BSX is buying the company and its intellectual property, not the device only..lets see what happens or what comes of it over the next 2-5 years

Originally Posted by Anonymous

No..not ready yet, but remember BSX is buying the company and its intellectual property, not the device only..lets see what happens or what comes of it over the next 2-5 years

Yep....as I said earlier, the sensing technology is suppose to be very cool which is all I think BSX is after...and applied to the right size devices with greater longevity than what I am hearing....they might have something. The question is...will BSX be around long enough to put it into play?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Yep....as I said earlier, the sensing technology is suppose to be very cool which is all I think BSX is after...and applied to the right size devices with greater longevity than what I am hearing....they might have something. The question is...will BSX be around long enough to put it into play?

What difference does it make whether BSX is "around"? If not, whoever buys BSX will develop the technology.

Look at what STJ built from the remnants of two disgusting, corrupt CRM companies.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

What difference does it make whether BSX is "around"? If not, whoever buys BSX will develop the technology.

Look at what STJ built from the remnants of two disgusting, corrupt CRM companies.

Yes, they built another disgusting and corrupt CRM company.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Yes, they built another disgusting and corrupt CRM company.

All CRM companies are corrupt. Can't wait to get out.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

All CRM companies are corrupt. Can't wait to get out.

Go ahead get out. Chances are you will see that almost every business segment is corrupt in some way. So, go ahead get out. It leaves more for the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

What difference does it make whether BSX is "around"? If not, whoever buys BSX will develop the technology.

Just like Guidant developed the technology from InControl that they bought for $90 million for atrial defibrillation.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

same price w/leads? or just device price comparison?

Like for like. DR system against Cameron system

Originally Posted by Anonymous

All CRM companies are corrupt. Can't wait to get out.

Now this thread is just getting stupid....bottom feeder comments start rolling in like this and just takes the wind out of the sails...DONE!

Doesn't look like it was smart money.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...120423?irpc=43

Wow, did BSC even read the clinical reports before buying this? That infection rate is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Wow, did BSC even read the clinical reports before buying this? That infection rate is ridiculous.

Infection rates can be mitigated with techniques, protocols and products like Aigis. The bigger question is where is the device in terms of sensitivty and specificity? Time to therapy? Charge time? Is ATP even possible? If so, what's the success rate there?

An interesting product that I have been watching with some interest for a while. If BSX can figure it out...it will definitely put them on the path to redemption in the eyes of a lot of folks.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Infection rates can be mitigated with techniques, protocols and products like Aigis. The bigger question is where is the device in terms of sensitivty and specificity? Time to therapy? Charge time? Is ATP even possible? If so, what's the success rate there?

An interesting product that I have been watching with some interest for a while. If BSX can figure it out...it will definitely put them on the path to redemption in the eyes of a lot of folks.

Is it harder to figure out than screws and glue? If so don't hold your breath.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

You're a complete moron. Have you seen the size of these things and where they are implanted? and their target pt's are kids???? Rediculous!!! How about longevity? 5 years! Joke! How do you DFT? How do you know if the device will rescue after implant? BSX is buying this company for the sensing technology and that is all!!!! I admit the sensing technology is pretty cool...but that's all they want it for you dumb ass!!! Why do you think ICD's have "post shock pacing" back-up that this device does not have???

Love your comment about "leading EP's asking for training"....implanting a shock only device under the arm pit needs training??? What a F******g Dork! There's zero market for this device and EP's are not interested at all!!! Implanting cardiologist hacks might bite at this!!!
This is equal to having a Sub-Q in your bag....Wow!

To all of you that didn't listen to me when I wrote this earlier.....I told you so!!!

what do you guys think of this technology in india or china ?

small patients ? would it fit ? i see the financial value of having this technology in emerging markets or poor countries

comments ?