You never grow grey at JNJ

The word is definitely out there. Once you hit 50, you are a target to be let go due to age. Anyone have any concrete examples of taking this company to court because of age discrimination particularly with downsizing? I know that they usually mix the ages and post the ages so people don't get the idea that only middle aged employees are let go, but it seems that the less than young don't last here even when they are 54.5 years old and have been with the company for 25 years.

Total BS. Have been with JNJ for years and while the company has changed, you show me a company who has not. Lets stop the pot shots at JNJ already. Like all other organizations we are simply trying to weather this very uncertain health care environment.

The CSO's recently hired for IM/Retail are of this age so this helps the company cover up the age issue. However, compared to other companies, appears there are many older reps than those typical hired by other companies who like those recently out of college, young 20-30's. You will see a good mix of 1 in the 50's and most mid30-40's in districts, plus the CSO reps in late 40's or mid-50's makes it look balanced.

I think companies will hit anyone who has a higher income if they can pay lower salary--- so if someone starts with lower wage (CSO's as an example), no matter the age-- the company saves money if they can let go a JNJ with a higher salary.

Make sense?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Total BS. Have been with JNJ for years and while the company has changed, you show me a company who has not. Lets stop the pot shots at JNJ already. Like all other organizations we are simply trying to weather this very uncertain health care environment.

"Uncertain" ?????
You mean whether or not companies will be able to keep up some of the shenanigans they occasionally get caught doing????
Yeah, occasionally more often lately....that's indeed "uncertain" unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The word is definitely out there. Once you hit 50, you are a target to be let go due to age. Anyone have any concrete examples of taking this company to court because of age discrimination particularly with downsizing? I know that they usually mix the ages and post the ages so people don't get the idea that only middle aged employees are let go, but it seems that the less than young don't last here even when they are 54.5 years old and have been with the company for 25 years.

I LOVE IT !!!!
yes...that's the truth...no matter what the "shit can" contracts say when they toss you out...
Over 50,..head not up someones orifice ??...you are toast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotta check in here more often !!!!

Why would J&J get rid of you if you are better at your job than a 25 year old?

If you are slow, inflexible, moany, and negative influence you are gonna get fired, irrespective of age.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Why would J&J get rid of you if you are better at your job than a 25 year old?

If you are slow, inflexible, moany, and negative influence you are gonna get fired, irrespective of age.

Wow, I've no idea why ?? Let's ponder that.
Can't be salary? Accrued benefits, maturity and judgement ?
No, can't be that.
Why does a dog that is 26 years old and dumber than crap lick his own butt ?
Oh,..he doesn't..he gets 25 year old's to do that.
A "negative influence" is what this company might have used the last few years...don't you think?
Or don't you think.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The word is definitely out there. Once you hit 50, you are a target to be let go due to age. Anyone have any concrete examples of taking this company to court because of age discrimination particularly with downsizing? I know that they usually mix the ages and post the ages so people don't get the idea that only middle aged employees are let go, but it seems that the less than young don't last here even when they are 54.5 years old and have been with the company for 25 years.

This is absolutely true. My DM drove me out of the job. My numbers were as good as anyone else in the district and yet she put enormous pressure on my. I am talking to an attorney. I'm not going to let JnJ get away w age discrimination.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

This is absolutely true. My DM drove me out of the job. My numbers were as good as anyone else in the district and yet she put enormous pressure on my. I am talking to an attorney. I'm not going to let JnJ get away w age discrimination.

The attorneys know what they are doing.
Demographics charts and better than average "severance" papers to sign.
Who's got the funds to actually sue them ?? Who keeps those kind of notes and records, if you are not expecting it, or an otherwise honest person ??
A sad mess.!!!
It's a "job"....that's it !

contact Jackson & White in Arizona - they have a case going

Age discrimination is part of the new credo, haven't you heard?
The other key part is profits at any cost. J&J lost its moral compass long ago.
Remember its only a job. Just do enough to keep off the radar, nothing more.

One on one we lose. The best way is a class action no matter how few the number is right now. We can also sue with cooperation of additional suits. We all go after them one by one and we are dead. That is what they are hoping we do. Post any info from legal firms wanting to represent us here so we can join in. It is time we band together and screw them the way Pfizer reps took them on for overtime and won. By themselves there was no hope.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

One on one we lose. The best way is a class action no matter how few the number is right now. We can also sue with cooperation of additional suits. We all go after them one by one and we are dead. That is what they are hoping we do. Post any info from legal firms wanting to represent us here so we can join in. It is time we band together and screw them the way Pfizer reps took them on for overtime and won. By themselves there was no hope.

At former COBI now JBI they're transitioning all of the young reps out of a hospital franchise in order to keep the "tenured" reps calling on long time customers. By end of year the old timers are all laid off. Brilliant strategy by unscrupulous management. They think no one knows what they are doing. Pathetic.

The plan is simple . . . make it unattractive for people who are too costly to stay . . . . . oh darn, didn't realize I was talking about you older folks.....too bad you cost so much, what a coindicence.

Seriously, the general rule is JNJ will pay up to 40K to make you go away; but your attorney may cost that much. If you have $75-$200K or a hungry continency atty and 2-3 years you will likely get your money back plus a little.

Execs have been sloppy . . . . if you can find the right staff to be deposed you will win big, but most folks aint talkin. If you can get the smoking gun you will win big. DONT FORGET TO DISCUSS DIMMUNITION OF SKILL SET with your attorney.

Good luc,

The plan is simple . . . make it unattractive for people who are too costly to stay . . . . . oh darn, didn't realize I was talking about you older folks.....too bad you cost so much, what a coindicence.

Seriously, the general rule is JNJ will pay up to 40K to make you go away; but your attorney may cost that much. If you have $75-$200K or a hungry continency atty and 2-3 years you will likely get your money back plus a little.

Execs have been sloppy . . . . if you can find the right staff to be deposed you will win big, but most folks aint talkin. If you can get the smoking gun you will win big. DONT FORGET TO DISCUSS DIMMUNITION OF SKILL SET with your attorney.

Good luc,

The plan is simple . . . make it unattractive for people who are too costly to stay . . . . . oh darn, didn't realize I was talking about you older folks.....too bad you cost so much, what a coindicence.

Seriously, the general rule is JNJ will pay up to 40K to make you go away; but your attorney may cost that much. If you have $75-$200K or a hungry continency atty and 2-3 years you will likely get your money back plus a little.

Execs have been sloppy . . . . if you can find the right staff to be deposed you will win big, but most folks aint talkin. If you can get the smoking gun you will win big. DONT FORGET TO DISCUSS DIMMUNITION OF SKILL SET with your attorney.

Good luc,

I was let go at age 60 and 30 years of service

I hope you are not complaining as you did get grey and also received 60 weeks serverence plus your retiree benefits.

No one should feel sorry for you. You received 60 weeks severence plus full retirement benefits.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

No one should feel sorry for you. You received 60 weeks severence plus full retirement benefits.

Nobody gets 60 weeks. Two per year to a max of 26 weeks. Perhaps this person had hoped to continue working. Not everyone wants to retire.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Nobody gets 60 weeks. Two per year to a max of 26 weeks. Perhaps this person had hoped to continue working. Not everyone wants to retire.

Indeed...very true.
Because he/she is "eligible" to "retire" does not give someone else the right (or unfortunately the opportunity) to disrupt their life, fairly arbitrarily, for mostly political or self-agrandizing reasons.
Just hope that you too are receiving "60 weeks" etc etc when you are "eligible" !!!
It's not fun.
:-(((((((((((((((

Is the maximum severance 26 weeks? I had never heard there was a max before.

The max severance is something like 2 weeks per year up to about 52 weeks plus up to the standard 60 to 90 days notice sometimes given

I know two people who were laid off and both rec'd almost 11 or 12 mos severance after 23 and 25 years each.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I know two people who were laid off and both rec'd almost 11 or 12 mos severance after 23 and 25 years each.

True....been there.
But you do need to sign that "I won't ever sue you for the evil and punitive things you've done" document.
You've go to do that pro forma or you get walked into the lot immediately...bye bye.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

This is absolutely true. My DM drove me out of the job. My numbers were as good as anyone else in the district and yet she put enormous pressure on my. I am talking to an attorney. I'm not going to let JnJ get away w age discrimination.

Very true.
My Quintiles contract rep replacement has NOT improved the territory sales #s. He has also NOT been put under the pressure that I was put under. I was threatened w/ a PIP and told out loud by my crazy DM -- in-front of our district and the Region -- that my territory sales #s need to improve).

New rep is NOT getting the abuse however his sales results are now far below my ranking.
Life is not fair and neither is Janssen Pharma.

Age matters here.

I retired from J&J 18 months ago, after 27 years of survival.....and I did it at age 58. On my terms, on my timing....pension, 401k, and health benefits.
Including being "laid off" some 7 years earlier at age 51. I got angry, hired an attorney, found out how many $$$$ it would be for me out of pocket, and then decided to utilize my well placed contacts and relationships to get back in.....instead of going to court.
I fought and survived, but that is truly what it takes to retire in sales and marketing at J&J. That and at least above average or excellent job performance, no matter what OP CO or position within the company. Oh, and keep good notes, print out communications,...on everything and everyone.
You have choices, and you need to decide. Will you survive and beat them at their own game, like I did? And then laugh all the way to the bank and retirement?
Or will you bitch and moan about every little thing that you cannot control? This is a huge conglomerate, in it for the profits and the stockholders, not for you as an individual. Once you truly understand that, you can navigate your way through the BS, and make the right choices for you, and for your loved ones. They are the only ones who truly matter in life.

I retired from J&J 18 months ago, after 27 years of survival.....and I did it at age 58. On my terms, on my timing....pension, 401k, and health benefits.
Including being "laid off" some 7 years earlier at age 51. I got angry, hired an attorney, found out how many $$$$ it would be for me out of pocket, and then decided to utilize my well placed contacts and relationships to get back in.....instead of going to court.
I fought and survived, but that is truly what it takes to retire in sales and marketing at J&J. That and at least above average or excellent job performance, no matter what OP CO or position within the company. Oh, and keep good notes, print out communications,...on everything and everyone.
You have choices, and you need to decide. Will you survive and beat them at their own game, like I did? And then laugh all the way to the bank and retirement?
Or will you bitch and moan about every little thing that you cannot control? This is a huge conglomerate, in it for the profits and the stockholders, not for you as an individual. Once you truly understand that, you can navigate your way through the BS, and make the right choices for you, and for your loved ones. They are the only ones who truly matter in life.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I retired from J&J 18 months ago, after 27 years of survival.....and I did it at age 58. On my terms, on my timing....pension, 401k, and health benefits.
Including being "laid off" some 7 years earlier at age 51. I got angry, hired an attorney, found out how many $$$$ it would be for me out of pocket, and then decided to utilize my well placed contacts and relationships to get back in.....instead of going to court.
I fought and survived, but that is truly what it takes to retire in sales and marketing at J&J. That and at least above average or excellent job performance, no matter what OP CO or position within the company. Oh, and keep good notes, print out communications,...on everything and everyone.
You have choices, and you need to decide. Will you survive and beat them at their own game, like I did? And then laugh all the way to the bank and retirement?
Or will you bitch and moan about every little thing that you cannot control? This is a huge conglomerate, in it for the profits and the stockholders, not for you as an individual. Once you truly understand that, you can navigate your way through the BS, and make the right choices for you, and for your loved ones. They are the only ones who truly matter in life.

Thank you. I wish you the best of luck, health and happiness in your retirement.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I retired from J&J 18 months ago, after 27 years of survival.....and I did it at age 58. On my terms, on my timing....pension, 401k, and health benefits.
Including being "laid off" some 7 years earlier at age 51. I got angry, hired an attorney, found out how many $$$$ it would be for me out of pocket, and then decided to utilize my well placed contacts and relationships to get back in.....instead of going to court.
I fought and survived, but that is truly what it takes to retire in sales and marketing at J&J. That and at least above average or excellent job performance, no matter what OP CO or position within the company. Oh, and keep good notes, print out communications,...on everything and everyone.
You have choices, and you need to decide. Will you survive and beat them at their own game, like I did? And then laugh all the way to the bank and retirement?
Or will you bitch and moan about every little thing that you cannot control? This is a huge conglomerate, in it for the profits and the stockholders, not for you as an individual. Once you truly understand that, you can navigate your way through the BS, and make the right choices for you, and for your loved ones. They are the only ones who truly matter in life.

That was the old way. Cut a few heads, and leave a few spots open for some of those cut to land. Not anymore. The last wave had a few openings held and very few of those cut landed spots. The next wave will be more of the same, BUT, they'll make sure that anybody cut is cut for good. Cutting people, and then letting them stick around defeats the purpose doesn't it?
The next wave is being planned now.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

That was the old way. Cut a few heads, and leave a few spots open for some of those cut to land. Not anymore. The last wave had a few openings held and very few of those cut landed spots. The next wave will be more of the same, BUT, they'll make sure that anybody cut is cut for good. Cutting people, and then letting them stick around defeats the purpose doesn't it?
The next wave is being planned now.

I work at JBI once Centocor and everybody here sees exactly what they're doing, It's textbook. But here's the thing: the textbook is obsolete. It's a digital world now, and their exploits are being recorded and reported daily on a public blog with oodles of followers. One day, the names of the leadership at this division will be noted in the discrimination chapters of law textbooks. Instead of being known for the numbers they produced, they'll be known for the numbers they incurred.

I retired at age 60 1/2 and 30 years of service. My advice is to plan ahead, max out your 401K contributions each year, keep a positive attitude, do your job to the best of your ability and hope it works out. My goal was to leave at 60. If you DO make it, JNJ pays a good pension. You have to save like crazy and when your 401K gets to 7 figures, you can leave with no worries.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I retired at age 60 1/2 and 30 years of service. My advice is to plan ahead, max out your 401K contributions each year, keep a positive attitude, do your job to the best of your ability and hope it works out. My goal was to leave at 60. If you DO make it, JNJ pays a good pension. You have to save like crazy and when your 401K gets to 7 figures, you can leave with no worries.

Were you at a VP or Sr. Director level? Very few people at that level retire from J&J and seem to usually be part of a RIF or re-org before J&J has to foot the bill for an expensive retirement package. Just look at the past Reductions in Force and how many Sr. Level people over the age of 50 are targeted for position elimination.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I retired at age 60 1/2 and 30 years of service. My advice is to plan ahead, max out your 401K contributions each year, keep a positive attitude, do your job to the best of your ability and hope it works out. My goal was to leave at 60. If you DO make it, JNJ pays a good pension. You have to save like crazy and when your 401K gets to 7 figures, you can leave with no worries.

And I also forgot to add that the seven figures included the two places right of the decimal point.

The various groups of people that I saw being laid off were in their 40's. I saw no one in their 20's and very few in their 30's. One person was laid off at the age of 49. They had been with the company for 29 years. They lost most of their pension. They will never be able to recover from that.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The various groups of people that I saw being laid off were in their 40's. I saw no one in their 20's and very few in their 30's. One person was laid off at the age of 49. They had been with the company for 29 years. They lost most of their pension. They will never be able to recover from that.

Yes, I've seen that as well.
It's very very seldom for any reason of performance!
Usually the manager du jour wants to put someone else there, or simply is annoyed with the victim du jour.
The employee gets trashed, family devastated, and the manager moves on or out, to pollinate other venues.
It's cruel and should be illegal.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The various groups of people that I saw being laid off were in their 40's. I saw no one in their 20's and very few in their 30's. One person was laid off at the age of 49. They had been with the company for 29 years. They lost most of their pension. They will never be able to recover from that.

How did he lose the pension? I've been told that once you are vested it is yours to keep!

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The various groups of people that I saw being laid off were in their 40's. I saw no one in their 20's and very few in their 30's. One person was laid off at the age of 49. They had been with the company for 29 years. They lost most of their pension. They will never be able to recover from that.

Once you're vested, after 5 years of service, your pension is secure. It doesn't matter if you're 35 or 55...The problem is with the retire medical. This is only available if you are 55+ with 10 years vested. So, the above person lost nothing from their pension, but left without medical since they were 6 years shy of 55.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Once you're vested, after 5 years of service, your pension is secure. It doesn't matter if you're 35 or 55...The problem is with the retire medical. This is only available if you are 55+ with 10 years vested. So, the above person lost nothing from their pension, but left without medical since they were 6 years shy of 55.

Did they at least get the retiree coupon for free Risperdal?
That'll help.

‎Strength does not come from winning.
Our struggles develop our strengths.
When we go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

-- Mahatma Gandhi

Originally Posted by Anonymous

‎Strength does not come from winning.
Our struggles develop our strengths.
When we go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

-- Mahatma Gandhi

There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball.
-- Ty Webb

Originally Posted by Anonymous

There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball.
-- Ty Webb

"The truth shall set you free"......

HAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

yeah, you'll be free alright.

Does anyone think there will be an early retirement buy-out in the coming months or just lay-off's? Will they bridge you 5 years? And will you have to already have 10 yrs of service and be 55 yrs?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Does anyone think there will be an early retirement buy-out in the coming months or just lay-off's? Will they bridge you 5 years? And will you have to already have 10 yrs of service and be 55 yrs?

You've got to ask yourself, is J&J ethical, do they really care about their employees?
That will answer whether or not they offer a bridge or buyout.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

You've got to ask yourself, is J&J ethical, do they really care about their employees?
That will answer whether or not they offer a bridge or buyout.

Or a simple "Get Out"

Originally Posted by Anonymous

One on one we lose. The best way is a class action no matter how few the number is right now. We can also sue with cooperation of additional suits. We all go after them one by one and we are dead. That is what they are hoping we do. Post any info from legal firms wanting to represent us here so we can join in. It is time we band together and screw them the way Pfizer reps took them on for overtime and won. By themselves there was no hope.

Forget the class action age discrimination suit against J&J. It may be a fantasy, but the reality of it is the company and all of their operating companies do everything just inside the letter of the law. Your best bet is to find some crazy manager that has lost his desire to follow the rules and let him/her rant on you in front of witnesses (preferably at a meeting in front of hotel staff). Other than that, HR gives them a script, they read it and nothing is out of order legally.

Or do what I did: Find the CEO's gal and take over her. I'm one of those incredible lovers--in fact the 50 Shades books are amateurish compared to me--so I sought her out and introduced her to my R & D department (you can just imagine what THAT means) and I conquered her. She was not only screaming, but at one point we made love looking at his picture while she laughter and panted uncontrollably. This was my revenge. What's yours?

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Forget the class action age discrimination suit against J&J. It may be a fantasy, but the reality of it is the company and all of their operating companies do everything just inside the letter of the law. Your best bet is to find some crazy manager that has lost his desire to follow the rules and let him/her rant on you in front of witnesses (preferably at a meeting in front of hotel staff). Other than that, HR gives them a script, they read it and nothing is out of order legally.

Unfortunately true.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Or do what I did: Find the CEO's gal and take over her. I'm one of those incredible lovers--in fact the 50 Shades books are amateurish compared to me--so I sought her out and introduced her to my R & D department (you can just imagine what THAT means) and I conquered her. She was not only screaming, but at one point we made love looking at his picture while she laughter and panted uncontrollably. This was my revenge. What's yours?

FYI - to all the 'Grey' guys being let go - I have never gotten LAID so much since I got laid off last year. Its been so much fun!!! So many 40+ women and wives out there looking for more on the side.
So to those of you with lotsa severance and decent nest eggs, use it wisely and get out there and GET LAID!!! You have all the excuse in the world!!! "Honey, theres a career fair this evening..."
They're doing you a favor laying you off! you get to taste what life should really be like! Add a few more notches to the bedpost before getting another job!!!

Originally Posted by GETTING LAID BIGTIME!!!

FYI - to all the 'Grey' guys being let go - I have never gotten LAID so much since I got laid off last year. Its been so much fun!!! So many 40+ women and wives out there looking for more on the side.
So to those of you with lotsa severance and decent nest eggs, use it wisely and get out there and GET LAID!!! You have all the excuse in the world!!! "Honey, theres a career fair this evening..."
They're doing you a favor laying you off! you get to taste what life should really be like! Add a few more notches to the bedpost before getting another job!!!

...just don't get burned with the KY