3 years after Merck....

Discussion in 'Merck' started by Anonymous, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:42 AM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    It has been just over 3 years since Merck took over Schering-Plough, released ( polite way of saying FIRED) 2000 of us, including myself, and thus pretty much ended my pharmaceutical career. I got a very nice severance package ( about 11 months pay = $100,00+)..with that, I was able to pay off the rest of my mortgage of $13,000, pay off my credit cards ( $5000), and purchased the company Ford Escape for $12,700.

    I was in my late 50’s and I knew finding a job in a business that hired young people ( 25-35) who were willing to start at much less money than myself, all worked against me. I thought I was in serious trouble both financially and emotionally..what was I going to do now? Could my wife & I make it on one salary if I couldn’t find work? How long would this severance pay last? I had been a Pharma rep for 21 years, starting with Berlex, then on to Organon ( which was purchased by Schering-Plough). Would I miss the Pharma life & culture? I am happy to say….not in the least!!!!

    Pharma sales was great until COMPUTERS came into the business, around 1994-5 for most companies. After that, the bullshit started: business plans, spreadsheets, e-mails, endless & mindless lists of physician calls & market shares, RX volume.etc.,etc. If you joined this business after 1996-97, IMAGINE what it would be like to go to work, make your 8 calls a day, THEN GO HOME AND RELAX- SPEND TIME WITH YOUR FAMILY,FRIENDS,GO OUT,ETC…..No e-mails, no spreadsheets, no business plans to update, no VOICEMAIL to check, NO COMPLIANCE VIDEOS to watch- sounds AWFUL, doesn’t it?

    After speaking with friends who either survived the Merck firing squad, or who went to get a job with another Pharma company, I am sooooo glad I don’t have to tolerate all the corporate bullshit and nightmare DM stories I still hear…DM’s checking to see what time you leave your house. DM’s checking what time you got your 1st signature, and last signature. Conference calls every week/ every other week ( what a waste of time that is- this business does NOT change on a week-to-week basis, so not much is so important as to require CONFERENCE CALLS!!). DM’S riding with you and constantly criticizing you, even when your numbers are great…stupid deadlines to meet on “Core Competensies”……

    9 out of 10 Pharma reps believe that the Pharma industry is not doing well and maybe a dying business. 7 out of 10 are contemplating leaving the industry. The way I see it, there are 3 important factors why the Pharma industry is getting harder by the day:

    1) Increasingly difficult to have meaningful interactions with doctors

    About 30% of doctors no longer see reps. This rarely happened when I started..I could see 95% of my targets. As the workload increases and patient volume increases, it is becoming increasingly difficult for a rep to get a piece of the doctor’s time. Often it has become a quick signature, or just 15-20 seconds, hardly enough time to provide information to help shape or change their prescribing habits.

    2) Lack of substantial value to offer doctors…hate say this guys & gals,but the fact remains that pharma reps don’t have much to offer in exchange for their time and attention. Back in the day when I started ( just after the Jurassic Period) , doctors used to rely on reps for information on the latest medications, happenings in the pharma industry, how other docs were using drugs,etc. Now, with information freely accessible through the internet, the role of the rep is becoming redundant. This makes building relationships with docs very difficult that would drive sales.

    Now, with all the restrictions on off-label usage, or experimental breakthroughs for their medications, reps are now severely limited on what they can say. Now this stuff goes to the “medical liaisons”.

    3) Finally..tighter controls & regulations on doctor-pharma interactions

    It used to be that reps could provide various benefits and incentives such as speaking opportunities, sponsorships to conferences,etc. Now, tighter controls & regulations have made it difficult to even pick up a tab for lunch whilst with the doctor. Dinners are now almost unheard of, without a clinical presentation. I used to take out doctors ( and their wife) just to meet them, and it gave me an hour or two to get to know them and tell them about myself & my product ( s). Now you’d be fired, arrested, put on probation, who knows? Combined with point # two I mentioned above, I believe it has become increasingly difficult for doctors to see any value in entertaining reps through their doors.

    I miss the docs themselves, though I still visit my favorites when I’m near by. I miss the $$, for sure. I miss the benefits, of course. And I miss our district the most. I still try to keep in touch with many, but they have another life now. No more seeing who has the answers to the tests. No more calling each other up to see what the DM is up to. No more copying each other’s business plan ideas. But I have no stress anymore. No more testing, role-playing, business plans, role-playing,conference calls, role-playing, spreadsheets, role-playing, POA’s, ride-alongs that were meaningless ( I was # 1 in my district for 66 months in a row in MS, and 27 months in a row in the region, and only rep in company history to be # 1 in both market share & volume NATIONALLY for 12 months straight- how much help does it sound like I needed??)…I am looking for something that has little stress- I’ve paid my dues in this business…gotta go to the pub & have a beer…don’t forget to communicate & check voice mail & e-mail later…
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I loved reading your letter and I couldn't agree more. It is a shame that the current employees in pharma can't experience what we did. IN THE OLD DAYS, the position was well respected and we did contribute to physician, pharmacist, RN and patient well being.I can't envision the current reps being invited to physicians homes for lunch or dinner, physicians giving xmas gifts to us or the number of outside activities e.g. poker, hunting fishing and weekend retreats. A far different world.I like you am enjoying every minute outside of what the industry has become. My advice for these youngsters is get out and find something produtive and enjoyable - life is too short!
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest


    I used to be invited to doctor parties, weddings, kid's parties...I went to see Paul Mc Cartney with one doc, 3-4 hockey games & at least 10 baseball games with others...you are right, it IS a shame these younger reps will never experience the days when Pharma meant something...the docs tell me the reps today are not like I was and they HATE it still when they bring in aggressive DM's...my wife's OBG told me he had to ban the Bayer DM from his office because he got nasty & aggressive because the doc wasn't prescribing enough Yaz...You have to be a real asshole to be banned by an office....
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Well said from the pharma rep point of view. Me? home office person. 30+ years with S/P totally -- had 1 yr under Merck Management. Part of 3000+ they got rid of in 2010/2011 period.

    Got my enhanced severance and was scared at first; even though I was SERIOUSLY consider a hand-raising but was cut before it actually happened. Was a true die-hard employee; putting in my 100% and then some on many, many days, nights and weekends when needed. Not a job that I was asked to do that I didn't do. We worked as a united team most days even though our reviews were individual; and I usually got screwed in terms of any raises and or other praise because unfortunately I wasn't one to make waves or go against managers and they knew it.

    Also I was the sole support for the benefits to my family and when they know they got you! they got you! and boy did they have me; lock, stock and barrel. but we did what we in my family had to do to survive, with the support of a loving husband and great kids who understood my company commitment and loyalty and give my kids a quality education and life.

    thank God for wonderful management who prepared us for what was to come; suggested that we get our financial pictures in order to be ready for it, in case we weren't asked to stay on, etc. I already lost my spouse prior to this, so I was financially ready and scared as hell.

    But now! I'm free. Free and happy and frustrating to anyone else who is still there working. Frustrating for them to see so many happy people able to say "I'm not going to work in a corporate-world any longer" I'm going to do part-time work if I have to. I cut back, don't spend like I have it because even though I do, I won't if I spend it like no tomorrow.

    I am free, happy, carefree, loving "retirement" and having the love and serenity of a new love in my life; productive, wonderfully great young adults well on their way to their new lives.

    and just thrilled that the stress of that day-to-day living that my life in Corporate S/P is over. I didn't realize what a drain it was, how it sucked the life out of me, and yet how great the co-workers and others I worked alongside truly were. BUT soooo glad its over! I'm smiling every day, doing what I want when I want. Missing the people but not the place. Gave them my all, not regretting it, but Glad I don't need it anymore.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    That is the problem with the industry. The reps are not business oriented ie here you say the damn emails and business plans. See you like just getting up and jumping in the car going somewhere you are not sure about until you get there, dropping some samples, saying hello around the office and cashing your 6 figure check. No business plan like all businesses and business owners, no plans at all, dont bother me I am in pharma. The industry went down as a result of hiring to many of these folks that enjoyed the easy road more than really selling and being business oriented in approaches. Docs got tired of all you had was how was your weekend, and hey what do you guys want for lunch. ONce they had to see 80 patients a day to make it they said well johnny rep is a waste of valuable time even if they are funny and nice. You are talking about the days when the female reps dressed up for halloween like a rabbit etc. bottom line is having 300k reps with most having your I cant be bothered I am to busy yuking it up with the office staff hurt the industry. Hell what business wants to pay the kind of money and benefits that are given in this industry for that stuff. Do you think if you worked at a bank you would be saying screw this, to many emails, man I had a meeting, what the hell my boss wants me to present something. Nope it was only acceptable in this industry to bitch about those things.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Another huge negative that occurred after the "good old days", is that pharma companies hired way too many reps (the landscape became ridiculously crowded, with reps lining up to see docs at high volume offices....think back to the Schering-Plough 2004-2009 time period...so many reps in each territory...and all the other pharma companies were no different); AND, all those new reps were for the most part "Barbies and Kens", who were so unprofessional, both in dress as well as in behavior. They truly degraded the industry, and brought it to the shameful state that it has become. Even though multiple downsizings have occurred in more recent years, and the number of such "Barbies and Kens" have declined, the industry will never have the class that it once had. Couple that, with the "big brother" atmosphere brought on with laptops, and the micro-management that followed....and you have the destruction of what was once a classy, dignified and worthwhile profession. So glad I am no longer a part of it!
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I'm not the OP. Just want to point out the you ignored the OP's long sustained high performance. Obviously, he/she was "doing their job", which didn't require all the mundane, useless "activity" generated by the never-ending nonsense (e-mails, teleconferences, data-crunching, antagonistic ride-alongs, etc.) Basically, companies need to get out of the way and "let people sell". That's the way it was in the "old days" (think back to the 80's and early 90's...the most successful and lucrative times in the pharma industry). Granted, in those days you didn't have generic competition and managed care issues. But you still had to sell vs. the competition. And the selling happened without all the nonsense...
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Very, very similar experience to the OP (I too started with Berlex, should never have left them), Syntex, Merck. Laid off (used to, Merck prided itself in employee retention- now? Who cares?) done contract since ( hey someone stills pays people to do it right). But you're right. Not the same. It really was about selling. Now ask a younger rep about selling into the pharmacy, turnover orders, wholesalers, getting products on formulary, DOD, hospital, etc. etc. and watch for the look of puzzlement. The rep job is going away fast. The only thing keeping it propped up is all the ancillary people it supports. Managers- middle,upper exec.s vp's, marketing, IT, HR....
    All these people would be gone if co.'s didn't have reps. It's corp. welfare run amuck.Just shows you how far prices have gotten out of wack.Docs sure don't have time for all the pharma crap. And they certainly don't rely on reps anymore for their info. My daughter is a newly minted Doc and she hasn't seen a rep. Since she got out and hardly saw any in residency. It's a model that no longe makes any good business sense. A rep. Is a huge liability. They break hippa rules. They speak off label. They wreck their cars. They lose their computers. They don't work full time but pull down huge compensations and great benefits.
    Last contract ended today, as a matter of fact and I'll take another one if I can. Hey it's all that's on my resume. Or I'll do something else if I can get it. Or I'll say "screw it" and start retirement. I used to feel sorry for the young guys still in pharma still trying to make a career of it. It ain't gonna last another 5 years much less 10 or 20. But I get it. It is a golden handcuff.
    But the OP was right it ain't even close to what it used to be and it never will be again. Like Springseen said in a song: "these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back."
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Nice grammar..if you're any good, you don't NEED a business plan! Are you so lame that you don't know your territory, who writes the business and who's a waste of time? And if you know what docs want, YES they do want you JUST to leave your samples, leave patient info, talk to the staff and answer any questions...when I left the business some years ago, one doc told me she always thought I was THEE best rep in the territory because I knew my stuff,and didn't try to have a clinical discussion with her...when I asked her if that bothered her, she said, "yes"..if docs want to have a clinical discussion, we'll ask our colleagues, not a drug rep"...I applaud the OP- nice,honest post
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Amen...I agree.....they don't sell today..they spend all their time doing admin work and worrying about where their managers are and when they are riding with them...
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    thanks for you terrific posting...I have always said that the laptop computer pretty much ended the pharma sales job as being a good one to have...The industry really screwed itself with bad management, out of control greed, and alienating its core customers.

    I miss the money and benefits too for sure, but overall, life is so much better away from that toxic industry!!

    and btw, FU MERCK!
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You don't need the Merck business plan template. You ask pharmacists in any town about who are the big writers. Of course you have to know them well first. We have pharmacy achievement awards which are great and free to recognize well established pharmacists. You ask doctors about who are on which P&T Committee. You develop your own strategy. You know who are the first to call on, who are the 2nd tiered docs, and who are the fill-in's on a slow day.

    I missed some docs. But after awhile, I am also happy that I am enjoying life after Merck.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Dear OP, I had lunch with a cardiologist last Saturday. Next week I am doing the same with a top internist who just retired. In a few months I will be enjoying a weekend at my oncologist's mansion by the lake. I am counting on his wife cooking fresh fish every day. We may go wine tasting.

    Oh yeah...after we became so ethical and stopped all those dine and dash and fake educational programs, my director said I should stop golfing with my family friend (a geriatrician) because appearance is very important for us Merck professionals. It may look wrong even if we pay for our own game. On Friday we were doing rock and roll concerts and drinking parties educating the docs. On the following Monday I was told not to golf on a weekend with a friend.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    cool if your not clinical in nature and she did not want to talk clinical what the hell stuff did you know. You said "I knew my stuff". Oh sorry you knew what sandwiches they like, how like blue cheese dressing etc. All that is fine but the job you describe is one that should pay 35k and not 90k that is the issue.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The job is a fraud. I don't see anyone outside of my daily lunch appointment. Neither does the rest of my lying-ass colleagues. What a bunch of phonies. I don't intend to stay in touch with any of these phonies once I leave this junkyard.

    Can no one be honest here?

    FU Merck
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The job is TO SELL your product (s) to clinicians. You think you can talk clinical with a Cardiologist after 1-2 weeks of classroom training? You're an arrogant asshole if you think you can...we are NOT doctors. We are NOT ARNP's or PA's. We learn enough ( 99% of what I learned I NEVER used in the offices!!) to promote our products. This job is about SALES & SHOOMOZING, not clinical expertise- if you want to do that, go work in a research lab. BTW, speaking of Cardiologists, once just after I came out of training, I went to see my 1st Cardiologist. I started to ask him how he positioned Quinidine Gluconate ( an anti- arrhythmia drug) when doing an EP test, and if he thought Phase 2 of the cardiac cycle was the key to what drug he chose ( yes, believe it or not, my DM was with me and told me to ask this stupid question!!)....he stared at me and said, "kid, are you just out of sales training?" I said, "yes, last week.."...."Let me give you some advice- no OFFICE-BASED Cardiologist is interested in discussing Phase 2 of the cardiac cycle WITH A DRUG REP...If I want to discuss an EP test, I will call Dr. Jeffries at JFK Hospital, the EP doctor there. And you can go and TRY to discuss Electrophysiology with him, but I assure you, he will tear you a new one, just he always does with reps who think they can discuss this with him after 1-2 weeks of sales training"....."keep it simple, bring in samples,brochures, price info, and any news in the industry I should know about- leave the clinical talk to professionals, OK kid?"
    I took his advice, and within 8 months I was # 1 in the district with Quiniglute.

    A good rep knows his "stuff"..a great rep knows when not to use his "stuff" and discuss the football game yesterday, the doctor's vacation last week, and yes,what kind of dressing they like on their sandwiches. I started out full of clinical bullshit medical jargon, meant to impress. I found QUICKLY that very few wanted to be impressed with your medical rhetoric. Knowledge, YES. Information, YES. RESPECT-YES....Grilling them on your drug/why they don't write,etc...BIG NO!!!
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    It's hard to define what is the "best" rep. The one who never even try to close on a doctor? The one that make each sales call a pure social visit? Then why we even need you?

    A good rep is one that is fully knowledgeable in all the clinical studies and can engage a customer if necessary. A good rep is one who can talk study design, p value and switch to BS and go back and forth effortlessly.

    If you go back a few more years then you'll notice Merck reps were seen as peer by docs, not as entertainers. Merck reps were part of the system, not caterer. Your definition of a good rep shown how much we have lowered the standard and quality of a Merck rep.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Wow. Now you're dating yourself. I too sold Quiniglute, but it's not been used much (nor many other anti-arythmics since the mid-ninties, post CAST).
    But you're right. Your knowledge and questioning gives you credibilty. But not with managment. I had a manager at merck when I sold CV that was constantly telling me to "dumb it down" for the docs. Till one day I finally figured out that what she was talking about was HER. My docs knew what I was talking about and appreciated the knowledge that I brought to an office. The problem with her was SHE didn't have a clue what we were talking about, and I mean the basics like systolic and diastolic and lipid values. But what the hell, merck got out of the CV buisness long ago.
    I remember I saw a cardiologist once right behind a Pfizer rep and he was hot. "My cardiology textbook said: 'This is a guide. You must use your training and experience for the benefit of patients.' And that was my TEXTBOOK. How much advice of what some rep tells me do you think I will take?" Credibilty and respect must be earned. There are no shortcuts. Pharma doesn't think that way anymore. It's all sizzle, no steak. Go in throw some donuts and verbatiums at 'em, see what sticks, home by 3. merck reps used to be the best in the industry in thier knowledge base. now? just like anyone else. mostly a nusiance. You my friend, like me are a rare dinasor, sadly headed for the dustbin. reps today don't know as much about products and selling converstions than your average car salesman. and apparently that's the way merck likes it.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    In my opinion that is exactly what Merck wants. We have not had a Training department in 15 - 20 years - and it shows.
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Msg for those like the OP: I am exactly you!! Except I'm in my mid-40's and still need to work. My severance pack is closely coming to an end and the thought of getting back into big pharma is making me depressed. It is so toxic! BTY, i have been interviewing and nobody wants me! i can't even get a job doing what I used to do.
    Not sure what to do???!!!! I have 19+ yrs in the industry and no nothing ese. Could somebody please shed some light on a career after pharma? What skills do I transfer over to what sort of company? Please...only honest replies-I'm at the end of my rope.