Astra Tech Dental Implants

I agree. I have a major market/quota, I have all kinds of competition to deal with. Yes, over 5 years ago, this area had some original design tapered issues. But in my local market, which has some influence within the US market, the specialist agree that those days are pretty much over. The one's that were affected and swore never again to place another tapered implant, guess what, have and are loving it. When a competing rep comes in and sees all the tapered nano's or non-nano's on the shelf, they come out with the " oh, have you not heard of the failure rumors? Can I offer you contacts of specialist that can tell you more, just for your own protection and reputation?" These specialist laugh as soon they walk out. It's a joke already, yet these puppies don't get it. I love my competing reps. I exceeded quota. While other reps here argue "what is 3%," I say it's better than the negative numbers they're companies posted. So continue laughing, as I grow my business.

 

Funny...and true!

 

You came on here and just agreed with your own post. I am the one who loves my competition, you see it is 10PM where I live and I am about to go out for the night. You are on here posting at 1pm which means that you are jerking around on CF during sales hours. Nice! Perhpaps if you and the rest of your company was paying attention to your business instead of playing around on CF all day the implant failures that you are running away from could have been fixed earlier.

Oh, and yes, I am laughing as you are "growing" your business with tissue bank bone. I am laughing because I am growing my business with implants that dont have a history of jeopardizing patients.

If you want, head on down to the village and I'll buy you a drink tonight and we can celebrate your "growth"; that is if you are not too tired form being on cafe pharma all day. After all, its your commission money that I am spending.

 

If you look for a job bei Astra Tech in Switzerland... forget it! The boss here is a sleeping tablet!

 

I would have to agree the double hex can be difficult clinically and the rational today somewhat questionable. If the abutments were double hexed as well they would not only be stronger, but easier to insert which apparently isn't well understood by the powers that be. Strength isn't an issue except for the 3.0 - stock abutment is double hexed -but easier insertion would be a plus. 30 degrees between abutment positions is probably only meaningful for stock abutments when the surgeon doesn't pay attention and for distal angled implants where 12 positions is better than 6. But an easier clinical solution would be offer those angled screw retained abutments with two hex orientations and move to a single internal hex in the implant itself.

As to Atlantis, we have used them mostly for Astra, but ID, Zimmer and Nobel as well. All their designs are tested and FDA approved. Haven't seen any evidence that the final abutments have a questionable fit and would have to say quite the contray. Can't comment on the Atlantis connection for 3i because unfortunately the last one that came into our office was failing and subsequently replaced.

 

Awesome, can I be there when you tell your surgeon and GP you're not replacing his failed implant for the reason above?? I'm sure it will go great!!

 

I find it funny that Astra reps come on all high and mighty. There are 2, count em 2 surgeons in my territory that place Astra. One of them basically gets his implants for free from Astra, so I really can't count him but I will simply because I feel sorry for Astra. They were without a rep for almost a year in my area. Are they setting the world on fire? I hardly think not. As for the 3i bashing, keep it coming. I have serious growth in my territory, not 3% not 30%, but way higher than that. I am in a substantial market as well. Bottom line, our tapered implant works just fine, as well as any other on the market. What works better apparently is the value that I bring to my customers. Astra is a fine system. Nothing wrong with it, but not even close to the best system out there. Atlantis is fine as well. But to be honest I offer CAD/CAM abutments and NOW am able to offer Stock Abutments without having to take a fixture level impression. NOBODY else can touch that, good price and easiest restoration in market by far today.

 

Astra's surface is demonstrably better, and it's external implant design is better. BTW, I'm not one of their reps. As far as "easiest restoration in the market by far today"--how do you justify that? I've never heard anything like that in my territory and call on a lot of 3i-friendly docs.

 

Well stated, but I'm always blown away when somebody says they use ID. They will not have longevity and have no commitment to furthering research and development, especially in the field of osseointegration. Why would you entertain using knock-off designs?

Lastly, the Atlantis abutments don't use the gold screws 3i uses. If I haven't seen data on something (another ID problem), I personally wouldn't use it. Everyone seems a little too cavalier about taking these chances which can have long-term implications.

 

Again, this is what I envisioned when we first started developing Encode. Taking an impression of a healing abutment..........period. From there, the restorative doctor and lab can decide if they want a custom abutment milled or an analog placed so that a stock abutment can be used. If there is currently anything on the market easier than taking a closed tray impression of a healing abutment and not having to look at a catalog to restore an implant I am all ears...........I will repeat this because some on this board have an apparent reading comprehension problem. Atlantis is fine. It is expensive and you still need to take a fixture level impression. Encode now can afford the doctor to request a custom abutment if it is prudent to do so, or if it is a straightforward restoration, in the posterior or angulation is good they can use a significantly less expensive stock abutment without using an impression coping........did I mention it is less expensive than taking a fixture level impression and restoring with a stock abutment as well?

 

You need a history lesson. Niznick had the lead-in bevel, internal hex starting in 1986 and Astra's connical connection with its internal double hex was a design that violated his patent. He never sued Astra because their sales were not that significant prior to when he sold to Calcitek in 2001. He does not copy.... he improves and here is his latest patent issued on the right way to do micro-threads. He was etching with HFl acid in the 1980's so Astra's surface is just a copy of something Niznick abandoned years ago.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=niznick.INNM.&OS=IN/niznick&RS=IN/niznick

 

If 3i learned how to index their abutments, they would not need scans of healing collars and custom abutments, saving the dentist hundreds of dollars. You can not use a stock contoured margin abutment if you do not sell such abutments with the contoured margin or angle indexed to the flat of the hex.

 

Surgeon wanted to place a tapered implant as he was most familiar with Zimmer implants. Requested he at least use and ID because I don't like the crestal bone loss seen with Zimmer implants that Niznick's mini threads seem to have overcome. No data as you mention and his claims about this thread design being superior is bonus. Patent probably never should have been issued because thread timing be it 2X or 3X involves cutting new bone regardless of what Nizplant thinks.

Now that the Astra TX implants are available with the new apical design and timed micro threads on the 4.5/5.0 fixtures primary stability in soft bone isn't an issue and that would be our first choice today.

 

Again, you are clearly incapable of reading information and retaining it. 3i can scan a healing cap, place an analog in the model and send it back to the lab so that they can prep the stock abutment as they would if a fixture level impression had been taken, saving the clinician HUNDREDS of dollars if a custom abutment was not needed. Keep telling yourself that Encode can't use stock abutments and I will keep selling a great idea and cost effective product.

 

Remember, you are arguing with Niznick, not me. (It's not even a thinly-veiled post). My original premise is that he's not devoted to future innovations (i.e. surfaces) and wishes to be a low-cost provider of design changes to existing implants with funny names. This doesn't inspire the masses, who want a true long-term partner that isn't interested in the low-cost, low-performance/service that ID is all about. His personality ensures a turnstyle of reps and managers until no one will take a chance there, and he's more infamous than famous.

I don't think Encode is a bad idea. But having stock, indexed abutments is a good idea--they are used in most cases.

 

I have never seen a concept so out of control as micro-threads. Never been proven to mean anything, although Astra's are not ideal in that they are too short in height and don't match the apical thread pitch. Total marketing junk. I also like how you refer to yourself in the third person when posting. Very celebrity-like.

 

We have indexed stock abutments, they are called gingihues. They have only been out on the market for 10+ years. You may want to read up on your competition a little more champ. BTW, the markings on encode healing abutments help determine HEX ORIENTATION, gingival contours and tissue height. Seriously, this is 3i we are talking about, not Ankylos. Nice try there chief.

 

Don't know that Astra ever did a study comparing their 4.5/5.0 fixtures without micro threads to ones with micro threads but the first 3.5/4.0 straight fixtures did not have micro threads and those hold crestal bone better now that micro threads have been added. But micro threads are only one of the pieces of the puzzle to the crestal bone maintenance.

If you look at the new Astra 4.5/5.0 TX fixtures you will see that the micro threads are now timed and primary stability has dramatically increased as a result. I have had 4.5/5.0 9.0 mm fixtures torque to over 50 Ncm where before the 9.0 length has difficult to get beyond 15-20 Ncm. The micro threads on the straight walled fixtures have always been timed to the apical threads.

 

I'm no Astra Rep, and I think your missing the point. (I do admire your shameless Kool Aid drinking though, I remember when I was a relatively new implant rep and felt the same.). Encode is fine just like every other CAD/CAM system on the market. It has its upsides and downsides. You arguing Encode's benefits over another system (atlantis, Lava, Procera) falls on deaf ears because we can all tell you its faults and our benefits over yours, and vice versa. We all speak to the labs and the restorative docs and get first hand feedback on your AMAZING system.

Nevertheless, I hope you sell it til you're blue in the face and grow the hell out of it. The issue is that you are you are telling your labs, surgeons, and GP's that if an implant fails and an encode isn't on top, you lose any 3i support on the implant. Again, tell me how that conversation with the surgeon goes.

 

I would tell you how those conversations go if I EVER had them. I don't have the need to talk about warranties on our implants/abutments. Look, Encode and Atlantis are very similar in that they are CAD/CAM abutments. I don't need to discuss how if my implant fails then the crown warranty is voided, why would I? To me that is just bashing the competition. If they want to use an Atlantis abutment on an Encode healing cap I tell them they can order an impression coping, take a fixture level impression and eventually get a final abutment back or they can bypass the fixture level impression, impress the existing healing cap and get a final abutment using the encode impression system that pretty much does the trick. Reps that use the "it voids the warranty crap" are not very good IMO.