Atheism and Mass Murder

Discussion in 'Cafepharma Playground' started by Mr. Hamster, Aug 7, 2012 at 10:44 AM.

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  1. #81 jasmin, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:46 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2012 at 11:50 AM
    jasmin

    jasmin Guest

    Oh, I believe you. You'll find there is a history though. If you know anyone in their late 70s, my parents age, you will find more on what was taught. What DD and I experienced was likely the group of those hanging on to pre-Vatican II ideas. I'm in my mid 50s and so wasn't very old when Vatican II came about but not all churches embraced the changes then and some resist even today. The church I attended where this was taught still offered Latin masses too. The past was an angry God who punished, which then became a forgiving God.

    You'll enjoy reading some of this. Take a look at the letter to the pope dated 1967. You can see what a dramatic change Vatican II represented and the break in the church between so called traditionalists and progressives.
    http://www.franciscan-archive.org/apologetica/vatican2.html
     

  2. Vagitarian

    Vagitarian Well-Known Member

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    The past was an angry God who punished, which then became a forgiving God

    And this is exactly my problem with this idea of 'god'. Who it is, what it is, what sex is it (LOL!), does it think, does it reward or punish? These ideas are all constructs of man. Other than the fact we are not the highest power, I don't think man really has a clue as to what's going on.

    With that said, like the other atheists or antitheists here, I just try to live my life, enjoy it, help people when I can and not hurt anyone. I'm good with that.
     
  3. jasmin

    jasmin Guest

    Atheism is believing there is no God. You indicate you don't know exactly what or who God is, but sound like you believe in a higher power. This isn't, technically, atheism. Atheist's state unequivocally that there is no God. Most people are agnostic, and either believe or don't in terms of faith but don't feel they "know" for certain if there is or is not a God.

    I believe in God and a non-literal bible and scriptures, and consider myself a Christian. God is real and I have enough facts in my life to state I 'know', as much as we can know, that there is a God. Yet I do not believe in a specific man-defined organized religion. Being raised a Catholic can do that to you. Man's bastardization of religion has turned more people against religion than to it.
     
  4. Vagitarian

    Vagitarian Well-Known Member

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    First off, I completely agree with your last sentence. As far as a 'god'? a higher power? How do you define 'god' or higher power'? For example, I believe the laws of physics (gravity, E = MC sqaured, etc) are higher powers than I am and they had a part in the creation of this Universe. Is the law of gravity 'god'? This is a simplistic example. Does this 'god' of yours think things over? Does this god of yours keep lists of who breaks commandments? It sounds like you believe in a very traditional notion of 'god' (a man like being in the sky) but you just aren't certain which of the sets of rules man made up for him to follow so you've improvised a set of your own to follow.

    I don't bellieve in that traditional concept of 'god'. I do acknowledge higher powers (gravity, speed of light, etc). Like you, I feel we function best with a code to live by so I've improvised a set of my own to follow. Many of them are found in Christianity but that in itself isn't the reason I follow them. They are also found in othner religions.

    Ironically, as a Christian and an atheist or anti-theist (which ever fits) we share some of the same rules (not to murder, not to steal) yet we also both, in the minds of others, would allow breaking those rules (ie abortion). My guess is our 'rules we live by' are very similar. You seem to be concerned about stating out loud that you 'believe in god'. I see no need to do so because if there is, how we act is way more important than pledging out loud that there is, indeed, a god.
     
  5. Breakingnews

    Breakingnews Well-Known Member

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    Everyone should think like this.
     
  6. Drug Dumper

    Drug Dumper Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about your classmates at your reunion, but the ones at mine really looked great. We look a danged site better than we did in 72. Interesting thing is the seniors in high school now have the long hair, wear "hippie clothing", and think they're getting away with something by smoking pot.

    Now how danged funny is that?
     
  7. Vagitarian

    Vagitarian Well-Known Member

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    Smoke pot? Omg! The world must be going to hell. Just like it was 40 years ago. :cool:
     
  8. Yeah except we now know whole lot more about how bad pot is for you now.

    If the health Nazis get their way you can kiss your medie goodbye.
     
  9. The fine tuning of the universe is one reason people believe in God. The characteristicsof the universe isn't God. God is the personal creative intelligence behind the creation of the laws and constants of nature.
     
  10. For the short answer....and rebuttal. The answer is no...

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Catholics_believe_that_all_other_religions_wil_go_to_Hell

    More detailed research to follow.
     
  11. You do understand that the laws of physics prove without any possible doubt that there must be a higher power or Supreme Being, correct?

    Theists couple that with faith...and voila....a "happy ending" takes on a whole new meaning.
     
  12. Drug Dumper

    Drug Dumper Well-Known Member

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    "No it does not teach that. The Catholic church teaches....." This is written in the present, not the past. Too bad there isn't an answer for:

    Did Catholics believe that all other religions would go to hell in the 50's and 60's?

    Also remember, wiki is written by lay people who contribute answers to the subjects. I've found a bunch of stuff that wasn't accurate on wiki.
     
  13. Pale Horse

    Pale Horse Guest

    Folks, who cares what religion says. It's what Jesus says that's what is important.
     
  14. Vagitarian

    Vagitarian Well-Known Member

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    P Ho, the reason people care what religion says is that each one is different and has a different version of what Jesus said. And whether he even existed OR what their prophet said. My personal belief is that he walked the earth and what is attributed to him is a pretty good code. When it comes to whether he is the 'son of god' or not, I share the belief of the Jewish faith - that he is the son of god as much as I am the son of god. Being the son of god doesn't really matter in my world. We just need an equitable code to live by.

    Also, as far as 'what he said'? Did you ever play that game in school called gossip? A story is passed from one end of the room to the other. By the time it gets there major changed have occured. So then we look at the Bible. Thousands of traslations, thousands of years.

    Finally, if you just care about what Jesus said, what about abortion? Did he ever define it as murder? This is where the religion thing comes in and it's difficult to separate it out. Without knowing you personally, I think you are comfortable in your beliefs, they work for you, you don't browbeat others like some here do and I completely respect that.
     
  15. Pale Horse

    Pale Horse Guest

    You are wrong. Religions are different due to man made ideas on how the church shoud be run. Leaders stray from the Bible and make up their own rules or simply disregard parts of the Bible. God's words or Jesus' never changes.

    Think about it. Purgatory is not in the Bible but Catholics believe it.

    The rapture is not real. It comes from 1 verse in the entire Bible and it is very iffy. It wasn't even introduced until the late 1800's but Protestants believe it. You want me to believe that after 1890 years this was suddenly discovered?

    These beliefs have nothing to do w/ interpreting the Bible.

    As far as the abortion thing you are wrong on that too but I don't want to get into that topic.
     
  16. Breakingnews

    Breakingnews Well-Known Member

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    Hence, the Mormon cult.
     
  17. Pale Horse

    Pale Horse Guest

    The one in Chicago too.
     
  18. Breakingnews

    Breakingnews Well-Known Member

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    Da Bears have a cult following in Chicago, that's for sure.
     
  19. Pale Horse

    Pale Horse Guest

    Not da Bears Duham.
     
  20. jasmin

    jasmin Guest

    I will always fight for the right of those of us who believe to be able to state publically that we believe in God. Being able to publically state my beliefs, without fear of reprisal or punishment, is a very basic founding right. In the greater scheme of things how we act is more important but you are wrong to discount the importance of being able to publically profess beliefs. And yes, because of some personal struggles and life meanderings, it is very important to me to state loud and clear that I believe in and know there is a God. I am not offended by those who believe differently, just think they are wrong.