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Is Arestin kicking your ASS?

Discussion in 'CollaGenex' started by Anonymous, May 18, 2004 at 12:50 PM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    In the PI for Arestin under microbiology it says that minocycline is effective against perio pathogens. But...It also says that Arestin does not have any effect on the quality or quantity of bacteria in the pocket. The answer is there's not enough drug to effect the bacteria in a biofilm. 1 mg vs. 50 mg. You may get an antiinflammatory effect which will reduce the gingival inflammation temporarily. That's why they had to use it at baseline, 3mo and 6 mo. Up to 121 unit dose cartridges! At a minimum of $10 per carpule, perio surgery would probably be less costly. The best selling tool against Arestin is their own PI.
     

  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Yeah, and I'm sure you will play a big role in it's development.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    you guys sound so stupid. the bottom line is that they are both the same friggin thing. They are probably both equally effective. It comes down to getting these idiots ( dentist and RDH's) to actually start treating this disease effectively. The lack of common sense within this medical field is pathetic. Both drugs work equally well. The big problem is getting them to use something, anything that will kill the bacteria.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You must have had poor training! Let me say that I think Orapharm management are a bunch of low-life scum balls. I want to make that clear. Second, I am NOT in the industry nor do I have any ties. I do, however, have research experience, and went to dental school. Let me ask you a question; how much Atridox (EXACT numbers please) is in the pocket after administration? Well, you can't answer that question because there is NO answer. I can answer it with Arestin; 1mg. As for Atridox, the product leaks all over the mouth, you do not know how much is in the pocket. As a person in the scientific arena, products that cannot approximate a respectable consistant dosage between patients are a joke. Not to mention that if you do not have a consistant dosage, and expose bacteria to a poor molecule which is in a bad delivery system, you get this little problem call bacterial resistance. As to why you guys are losing out to Orapharma, they recruit that best superstars from the hottest companies in game. The vast majority of us in the dental field have not been visited by such sharp talent in the past. Your only saving grace is that the management of Orapharma are one step about Satan when comes to ethics. If you are smart you will use that to your advantage. SELL YOURSELVES! I have encounterd reps who have come to us with superior products, but if I don't like their corporate culture I'll buy the inferior product provided that the clinical significance is comparable, and I the rep is a likeable person.
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    You must have had poor training! Let me say that I think Orapharm management are a bunch of low-life scum balls. I want to make that clear. Second, I am NOT in the industry nor do I have any ties. I do, however, have research experience, and went to dental school. Let me ask you a question; how much Atridox (EXACT numbers please) is in the pocket after administration? Well, you can't answer that question because there is NO answer. I can answer it with Arestin; 1mg. As for Atridox, the product leaks all over the mouth, you do not know how much is in the pocket. As a person in the scientific arena, products that cannot approximate a respectable consistant dosage between patients are a joke. Not to mention that if you do not have a consistant dosage, and expose bacteria to a poor molecule which is in a bad delivery system, you get this little problem call bacterial resistance. As to why you guys are losing out to Orapharma, they recruit that best superstars from the hottest companies in game. The vast majority of us in the dental field have not been visited by such sharp talent in the past. Your only saving grace is that the management of Orapharma are one step about Satan when comes to ethics. If you are smart you will use that to your advantage. SELL YOURSELVES! I have encounterd reps who have come to us with superior products, but if I don't like their corporate culture I'll buy the inferior product provided that the clinical significance is comparable, and the rep is a likeable person.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Are you Beavis or Butthead?
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Oh those are mature answers. That's exactly why Orapharma has their foot up your ass sideways. Is that what you tell your customers when they confront you with an Arestin obstacle? You must be those people who sold copier machines or windows before this gig. I know this is hard for you to understand but try using the little scientific training that you hopefully recieved from your company. You think I'm an ass? Well ok. At least I not taking it in the ass from those Orapharma guys! You better have an answer for that question BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE ORAPHARMA REPS ARE TELLING US. And you know what? IT MAKES SENSE. So you better come up with an answer, or continue to watch market share DROP.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I work for Ora. Beleive me when I tell you that the field reps don't even talk about periochip or atridox, or even periostat. We are very focused on a few select customers and get a MASSIVE amount of business from them. Then we have the rest of our cutomers. Our biggest challenge is getting the lazy dental community to actually probe and chart. Our message has been consistent from the start and we focus on 1 product (but not for too much longer). The reps are pressured and it shows. Our turrn over is nuts and our goals are out of sight. I can't beleive you guys don't have better market penetration. The Collagenex rep that I compete against is very good, but she hardly gets any business in either product.
    But the real issue is not with either product, but a lazy, apathetic, no business sense profession that we deal with. It amazes me how dentist will hand over a good portion of their business over to a GED office manager or to an RDH that "does not want to sell or be production oriented". If I could start over I would become a dentist or a dental consultant and show these idiots how to improve a patients health and make money at it.
    I can't wait to go back to medical sales-into a real specialty
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    This post is so true. The dental community and their lack of diagnostic skills and professionalism is so damn embarrassing and unbelievable. Did these people really go to college? Christ, they are no better than mechanics and should have gone to trade school. I hate them.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Unbelievable....I am the guy who wrote the "scientific stuff". Believe it or not, some dental pro's do have half a brain even though we get squat for business training in school. If you go back and read, you will find that I was actually trying to give some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. You have to know what you are up against! I happen to like your company; very nice people, but a fact is a fact. You have been beat out by a VERY high level, polished, experienced sales force with a great product. I have friends who are physicians, and I can tell you this, as dental pro's we have NEVER encountered sales pro's like this. That is why they complain about us as customers. Quite frankly, many of us are flat out confused by what point they are trying make. But they are very very sharp. I heard they come from major companies who have been calling on physicians for years. I dare say that you people have never encountered competition like them either. Its very clear, so lets stop playing games. Earlier, an Orapharm rep said they don't even talk about the other products like atridox. YOU SHOULD BE OFFENDED!!! As a sales person they are telling that you aren't even a threat. Look, I am done here. This is silly. I can't believe you people. I can only assume that your hardcore stars do not frequent this site. I only found out about it a couple of days ago, and was shocked at the lack of "fire" in this thread. For those of you who still have some "fight" left in you, Orapharma's field force is down by almost half due to mis-management (check their theads). If they have made your customers "believe" they have a better product, then find another angle. That's why I suggested to sell yourselves! I have only had great contact with a few of you at conferences; and people seem to like your company. Read some history; I have seen so-called "inferior products" (I'm only talking about PERCEPTION here) do better just based on the person selling it!
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I work here, I have also called on so-called REAL MD's and also on corporate business accounts selling another product. I do believe for one moment that Arestin reps are better than the majority of CGPI reps. I do not believe that dentists are less intelligent than Md's either. I called on idiots who were MD's; clinically brillant but no common sense and no people-skills. Your "constructive criticsm" is useless. If you don't understand studies & results versus "cheapest" & "easiest" then it is your patients that are suffering. Keep your marketing ideas to yourself.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Ah come on--this isn't pharma sales! This isn't about who brings in the better lunch, so you like one rep vs another. This is clearly about which product is a better fit for the practice(defined however you want since there are no clinical trials head to head)

    BTW-you may want to recheck the data before you quote anything that marketing may have dictated to you. (Arestin's secondary endpoint included CAL (gain)--its not in the PI but if you request the full study you'll see it. while you are at, see if you can find the study where Arestin grows bone---its out there.
    PS-I've worked for both companies
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Howdy. I am a specialty rep with a pharm company. I was following this thread and well, in regards to the last couple of posts....Thats all very nice. Feel better now? Good. Now, while you 2 are flapping your lips, lets take a look at ahhh....whats that little thing called......oh yeah....MARKET SHARE!!! Your boss, Wallstreet, Finanaical Analysts, investors, and ummm..oh yea your CUSTOMERS don't give a rip-roaring SH*T about "whaaa...Orap's reps aren't better than us.." and "Waaaahhh...boohoo...the PI says this....." IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE PI SAYS UNLESS YOUR BROKE-ASS IN IN FRONT OF CUSTOMER, AND YOU KNOW HOW TO WORK THAT ACCOUNT AND CLOSE, CLOSE, CLOSE! Its obvious that at the very least YOUR territories HAVE to be crappy!!! Maybe you're right...it is not pharma sales for YOU...but I'll tell you this..IT IS FOR YOUR COMPETITOR. So when it comes to your management WHO GIVES A SQUAT WHAT U "THINK" IT IS???!!! This is business ass-wipe!!!! Example: Zestril & Prinivil-EXACT same molecule. Competitors? Merck and Astra. Try dealing with that. You 2 wimps wouldn't last 2 days! But oh...oh...oh...blame it on the CUSTOMER! Its your job to MAKE the customer understand, its your job to HOLD their hands, and PUSH THE RIGHT BUTTON. In the REAL WORLD the BUTTON isn't always based on the PI! Good or bad sometimes your sale is dependent on what TEE-TIME you can get for the customer!!! Don't like it? Go work in construction or something!!! Based on your responses, that guy who said you were getting you butts kicked my orapharma HAS to be true!!! You (and I mean specifically the last 2 posters; not all of you..) AREN'T sales people! Why don't take pottery or something? I've seen better attitudes from Wal-Mart sales people! You really need to find something else to do! Punk-ASS wimps!!! So sit around, bitch all you wanna...SALES NUMBER ARE SALES NUMBERS...!!!!
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    AMEN!!!!