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<p>[QUOTE="Anonymous, post: 4630877"]Wow. I don’t exactly recall just what I “Googled” in order to arrive here, but this has none the less been an amazingly educational read. Looks like the sales reps have pretty much petered out (so this may well be a waste of my time) and only a few patients have responded to this thread in recent years. </p><p><br /></p><p>My story: My dentist & hygienists have been concerned about the depth of my pockets for a year or so – mostly 2 & 3’s, with several 4 & 5’s. They’ve warned about the possibility of needing scaling & root planning (SRP), or maybe even surgery, if things didn’t improve. So I’ve flossed & Waterpik’ed like crazy, but my pockets remain about the same – nothing more than 5 mm though. My hygienist & dentist are now strongly recommending SRP ($246/quad x 2 quads) and Arestin treatment for up to 10 teeth ($46/tooth for initial application). Will more treatments follow? No discussion of that yet.</p><p><br /></p><p>The whole idea of squirting an antibiotic into a pocket infected with periodontal disease makes perfect sense to me – The problem is a persistent bacterial infection that flossing, Waterpik’ing, and toothpaste has a difficult time reaching or correcting, so why not get some antibacterial stuff put deep in there? It’s got to work, right? </p><p><br /></p><p>So first I go to the Arestin website, which makes some rather impressive claims:</p><p> -- “Clinical studies show that ARESTIN® with SRP is up to 3x more effective than SRP alone.”</p><p>-- “Significantly reduces pocket depths.”</p><p><br /></p><p>Then I find the Arestin studies which show that when the patient began with pocket-depths of 5+mm, the pocket improvement of SRP-alone averaged 1.18mm. With Arestin treatment added to the SRP procedure (with 3 treatments of Arestin, 3 months apart) and looking 9 months after SRP, the pocket improvement (Arestin+SRP over SRP alone) was just .24mm. The study showed that the deeper the initial pockets, the better the improvement with Arestin (starting with 6+mm pockets showed an average of .42mm improvement over SRP alone, and 7+mm pockets showed a .96mm improvement). </p><p><br /></p><p>So, help me out here – Starting at a maximum of 5mm, is a .24mm pocket-reduction with RSP + Arestin over a 1.18mm pocket-reduction of RSP alone a significant improvement? How does the Arestin-claimed “3X more effective” or “Significantly reduces pocket depths” fit in here? I’m a patient, not a dental professional of course, but .24mm over 1.18mm, when starting with 5mm, does not sound like a significant improvement to me. Is it?</p><p> </p><p>The professional sales reps on this thread (which initially were the bulk of replies) sound like a bunch of self-centered, greedy, disgruntled, corporate-ladder climbing, the-hell-with-the-patient, if I must trick/manipulate the dental community in order to get mine, so be it, mentality. The more rational, well spoken, and most rational thinking posters seemed to be of the dental hygienist/patient types. Imagine that!</p><p><br /></p><p>So is this all it’s about? The medications that are most recommended/pushed by our dentists or doctors are basically only the ones that have been most effectively manipulate/pushed by their pharmaceutical sales reps? Seriously?</p><p><br /></p><p>I’ve stuck with my current dentist for many years because initially he was better reviewed than most, and as time went on I felt he was much better than most other dentists I have dealt with. Now I have to question my choice.</p><p><br /></p><p>Years ago, I lived next to a Pharmaceutical rep. His garage was so full of “gifts” to give away to doctors that he could not fit his car into his garage. At the time I thought it was all rather silly. Now I’m thinking that it was more criminal than silly. We people (the idiot patients that the sales reps refer to) rely on the medical/dental community for the supposed truths that might make our lives better, at “our” expense. It’s somewhat of a living hell to discover that my “expenses” have not so much been spent on significantly improving the “bettering of my health”, as it may have been for improving the profit margin of the pharma company and sales rep, as well as my dentist/doctor.</p><p><br /></p><p>How do any of you sleep at night, knowing full and well that your absolute priority in life, and in your career, is primarily to benefit yourself and your employer, over the very customer you and your industry “claim” to be looking out for? Most everything I’ve read here has bragged about the genius and benefit of gusto/salesmanship over good old fashioned objective/logical/rational reasoning as to what might be best for that “idiot” patient, as well as how best to ultimately move cash from the patient’s wallet into your own.</p><p><br /></p><p>It’s a sad state of affairs in my opinion. I’m a simple person. All I’m looking for is good health and good teeth. I’m more than willing to pay for it, if only it could be true. Unfortunately, I must keep my guard up, over those in the medical community that I regularly deal with for the supposed purpose of improving my health, to protect myself from ultimate greedy effects of the likes of you – big pharma and the sales-rep.</p><p><br /></p><p>Don’t get me confused – I’m pretty much politically conservative. I’m all for business, free enterprise, salesmanship,.etc. But come on – I’ve always been under the impression that conservatism was primarily about taking the high road, with profits taking a close but obviously necessary second.</p><p><br /></p><p>So please tell me, how far off from realty am I on all this?[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Anonymous, post: 4630877"]Wow. I don’t exactly recall just what I “Googled” in order to arrive here, but this has none the less been an amazingly educational read. Looks like the sales reps have pretty much petered out (so this may well be a waste of my time) and only a few patients have responded to this thread in recent years. My story: My dentist & hygienists have been concerned about the depth of my pockets for a year or so – mostly 2 & 3’s, with several 4 & 5’s. They’ve warned about the possibility of needing scaling & root planning (SRP), or maybe even surgery, if things didn’t improve. So I’ve flossed & Waterpik’ed like crazy, but my pockets remain about the same – nothing more than 5 mm though. My hygienist & dentist are now strongly recommending SRP ($246/quad x 2 quads) and Arestin treatment for up to 10 teeth ($46/tooth for initial application). Will more treatments follow? No discussion of that yet. The whole idea of squirting an antibiotic into a pocket infected with periodontal disease makes perfect sense to me – The problem is a persistent bacterial infection that flossing, Waterpik’ing, and toothpaste has a difficult time reaching or correcting, so why not get some antibacterial stuff put deep in there? It’s got to work, right? So first I go to the Arestin website, which makes some rather impressive claims: -- “Clinical studies show that ARESTIN® with SRP is up to 3x more effective than SRP alone.” -- “Significantly reduces pocket depths.” Then I find the Arestin studies which show that when the patient began with pocket-depths of 5+mm, the pocket improvement of SRP-alone averaged 1.18mm. With Arestin treatment added to the SRP procedure (with 3 treatments of Arestin, 3 months apart) and looking 9 months after SRP, the pocket improvement (Arestin+SRP over SRP alone) was just .24mm. The study showed that the deeper the initial pockets, the better the improvement with Arestin (starting with 6+mm pockets showed an average of .42mm improvement over SRP alone, and 7+mm pockets showed a .96mm improvement). So, help me out here – Starting at a maximum of 5mm, is a .24mm pocket-reduction with RSP + Arestin over a 1.18mm pocket-reduction of RSP alone a significant improvement? How does the Arestin-claimed “3X more effective” or “Significantly reduces pocket depths” fit in here? I’m a patient, not a dental professional of course, but .24mm over 1.18mm, when starting with 5mm, does not sound like a significant improvement to me. Is it? The professional sales reps on this thread (which initially were the bulk of replies) sound like a bunch of self-centered, greedy, disgruntled, corporate-ladder climbing, the-hell-with-the-patient, if I must trick/manipulate the dental community in order to get mine, so be it, mentality. The more rational, well spoken, and most rational thinking posters seemed to be of the dental hygienist/patient types. Imagine that! So is this all it’s about? The medications that are most recommended/pushed by our dentists or doctors are basically only the ones that have been most effectively manipulate/pushed by their pharmaceutical sales reps? Seriously? I’ve stuck with my current dentist for many years because initially he was better reviewed than most, and as time went on I felt he was much better than most other dentists I have dealt with. Now I have to question my choice. Years ago, I lived next to a Pharmaceutical rep. His garage was so full of “gifts” to give away to doctors that he could not fit his car into his garage. At the time I thought it was all rather silly. Now I’m thinking that it was more criminal than silly. We people (the idiot patients that the sales reps refer to) rely on the medical/dental community for the supposed truths that might make our lives better, at “our” expense. It’s somewhat of a living hell to discover that my “expenses” have not so much been spent on significantly improving the “bettering of my health”, as it may have been for improving the profit margin of the pharma company and sales rep, as well as my dentist/doctor. How do any of you sleep at night, knowing full and well that your absolute priority in life, and in your career, is primarily to benefit yourself and your employer, over the very customer you and your industry “claim” to be looking out for? Most everything I’ve read here has bragged about the genius and benefit of gusto/salesmanship over good old fashioned objective/logical/rational reasoning as to what might be best for that “idiot” patient, as well as how best to ultimately move cash from the patient’s wallet into your own. It’s a sad state of affairs in my opinion. I’m a simple person. All I’m looking for is good health and good teeth. I’m more than willing to pay for it, if only it could be true. Unfortunately, I must keep my guard up, over those in the medical community that I regularly deal with for the supposed purpose of improving my health, to protect myself from ultimate greedy effects of the likes of you – big pharma and the sales-rep. Don’t get me confused – I’m pretty much politically conservative. I’m all for business, free enterprise, salesmanship,.etc. But come on – I’ve always been under the impression that conservatism was primarily about taking the high road, with profits taking a close but obviously necessary second. So please tell me, how far off from realty am I on all this?[/QUOTE]
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Cafepharma Message Boards | Pharma Sales, Device Sales, Lab Sales
Home
Forums
>
Pharma/Biotech Companies
>
CollaGenex
>
Is Arestin kicking your ASS?
>
Cafepharma Message Boards | Pharma Sales, Device Sales, Lab Sales
Home
Forums
>
Pharma/Biotech Companies
>
CollaGenex
>
Is Arestin kicking your ASS?
>