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Patient Kickback Registry

Discussion in 'Pinnacle Biologics' started by Anonymous, May 30, 2013 at 3:48 PM.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Got a call from an account today who wanted to know how they too can receive kickbacks for doing PDT. I explained to them that this type of illegal and shady business was the reason I left Pinnacle for greener pastures.
     
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    That's funny, I thought I was the only one who received a call from an account requesting they want in. I told them the "Kick Back," as Erik politely referred to it, is for five doctors at a time. Maybe with enough pressure, they'll increase it to 10 doctors.

    I encourage the new PDT reps to ask Erik if in fact he referred to the patient registry as a "Kick Back."
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    What is the current "kick back" amount? My colleague (MD) said it was $1000. Should that amount be correct, it's not even worth my time. At $18694 per vial, I believe at the very least $5000 would suffice.

    Who can I call?
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    If true, ILLEGAL and will result in $ fines and imprisonment! Take the moral right road!!!
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Photofrin cost less than $300 to make per vial. At $18,694 per vial, I would agree to 10 K via a patient registry. I hope I get the call to participate.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    It is illegal to have a patient "Kick Back" registry. You will go to jail!!
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Accountable Care Organization will put the nail in the coffin to PDT. Call Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson, and a few others. The ACO model is spreading like wild fire.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Kickback/Quid Pro Quo Example
    The conclusion of the e-mail is incriminating
    Bradley, were you seeking to compensate a NON-FDA APPROVED APPLICATION with no fiber approval at Cornell? 5k educational grant and a faculty dinner??

    1 - 2, the FDA is coming for you! 3 - 4, Guillermo will be out the door. 5 - 6 Bob will have more time to pick up chicks. 7 - 8, PDT has become a dollar short and a day late. 9 - 10, PB will have to pay a stiff fine at the end.


    Scroll down to read the e-mail (copied from another thread) in its entirety:


    "Conclusion
    · I have a significant desire to support your efforts and too increase patient access to this devastating disease
    · The lack of a commercial fiber severely restricts acceptance of PDT in unresectable cholangiocarcinoma in the US market.
    · Support of the program needs to be realistic to the overall impact- hence I would like to discuss the following options.

    No fiber approval at Cornell before March 1, 2012
    · $5,000 educational grant plus faculty dinner support

    Fiber officially approval at Cornell before March, 1, 2012
    · $25,000 educational grant plus faculty dinner
    Once we get full approval of the fiber in the US- we would be able to discuss commitments for future programs.

    I realize you may be disappointed – but the lack of an appropriate device- will significantly diminish the impact of your program. We have very limited resources because of our lack of a fiber- it is truly a “catch 22.”
    _________________________________________________________________________
    From: Brad Herrmann
    Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 9:06 AM
    To: Michel
    Subject: RE: Interventional Innovations in Digestive Care: Pinnacle Biologics

    Dear Dr. K,

    I thought about this issue all weekend. The primary issues are communication, access to an appropriate fiber and timing.

    Communication
    · The first I heard of the program was at your fall meeting.
    · However the first time that I had confirmation of the meeting was mid-December at the NYSGE
    · At the NYSGE you communicated your desire for $50,000 grant plus the faculty dinner.
    That type of investment requires budgeting etc… and I did not have any time to create a budget to capture this type of request.

    Appropriate fiber
    · We do not have an appropriate fiber in the US for Cholangiocarcinoma.
    · Until we do the “impact” of your conference in the US is negated until such a fiber is commercially available.
    · An appropriate fiber could be made commercially available late in 2012 or 2013.
    However the FDA could demand a trial which would indicate a lack of a fiber until 2017 · The same issue is being implemented at your own institution.
    Until resolution on a fiber is reached- most cases cannot be performed.
    Timing
    · Lead time for a $55,000 was not sufficient.
    2012 budget planning was already complete- I did not understand your financial need.
    · More important- access to the fiber is the most critical piece of the puzzle.
    · Once a catheter becomes available- conference such as the proposed April program will have the value you have described.

    Conclusion
    · I have a significant desire to support your efforts and too increase patient access to this devastating disease
    · The lack of a commercial fiber severely restricts acceptance of PDT in unresectable cholangiocarcinoma in the US market.
    · Support of the program needs to be realistic to the overall impact- hence I would like to discuss the following options.

    No fiber approval at Cornell before March 1, 2012
    · $5,000 educational grant plus faculty dinner support

    Fiber officially approval at Cornell before March, 1, 2012
    · $25,000 educational grant plus faculty dinner
    Once we get full approval of the fiber in the US- we would be able to discuss commitments for future programs.

    I realize you may be disappointed – but the lack of an appropriate device- will significantly diminish the impact of your program. We have very limited resources because of our lack of a fiber- it is truly a “catch 22.”

    I am free this afternoon or any time tomorrow to discuss.

    Best regards,
    Brad Herrmann
    Vice-President, PDT Business Unit-US

    PINNACLE BIOLOGICS, INC
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "Conclusion
    · I have a significant desire to support your efforts and too increase patient access to this devastating disease"

    Does it get more incriminating than that? It's clear Brad was not referring to Esophageal Carcinoma. As previously stated on another thread, the content is obviously inappropriate regarding providing a kick back via quid pro quo for off-label use of PDT.

    How shameful. That's what happens when you are greedy. You ignore the laws of the FDA and take shameful risks.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    AGAIN THIS IS ILLEGAL - - - THE POSTING of CONFIDENTIAL E-Mails!!! You will be SUED!!!!
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Sue? really? Who?? You cannot sue on conjecture. Who's advising you? The Jerky Boys?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhjBlPucpd0

    The US Gov't will be suing YOU for Pharma-Malpractice! BTW, who's posting PB confidential e-mails on Cafe Pharma? Maybe it the same people employed at PB who have disobeyed the FDA regulations.

    I doubt the attorneys at Cafe Pharma are inexperienced such as the ones you are willing to employ. Cafe Pharma is in business for the long haul and will not be taken down by your fly by night company. Cafe Pharma's purpose and confidentiality of anonymous posters has made them prosperous.

    1 - 2, the FDA is coming for you! 3 - 4, Guillermo will be out the door. 5 - 6, Bob will have more time to pick up chicks. 7 - 8, PDT has become a dollar short and a day late. 9 - 10, PB will have to pay a stiff fine at the end.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Dear All,
    I'm the MD who originally posted this e-mail within this pharma board. Recently, it was brought to my attention to revisit my posting since it has caused subjective responses. I'm flabbergasted by the reaction of those who may be threatening to sue. Physicians will often share ridiculous requests or e-mails with certain colleagues. At times, confidential messages/information whether it be through e-mail or voice mail are shared with companies (Covidien, CSA, etc) who offer competing modalities.

    Disclosure:
    I have an agreement with such company. Don't act naïve. Many companies have their consultants sharing competitive information. I am confident you have MD investigators/consultants doing the same for your company.

    Below are my original remarks:

    "A colleague of mine at Cornell sent me a copy of this blatantly inappropriate email a VP from Pinnacle sent a colleague of mine about a year ago. I was reading through the posts and thought it should be posted.

    "The content is obviously inappropriate regarding support for off-label use of PDT. However, the email diction, sentence structure and grammer reads like it was written by a 5 year-old with crayons. The sheer pompous certitude of this VP! To send a physician an email like this is completely ridiculous. I don't think "plausible deniability" can be applied when examples like this are so moronically obvious."
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Obviously not an MD. You can only wish...
    Plus you look pretty bad when you complain about the "grammer"
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hmmm, only one person I know really likes ALL CAPS and !!!! :). The Griselda Blanco of the pharmaceutical world.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    How can I get paid for doing PDT cases? My hospital cannot get reimbursed for Photophrin and each case is a loss for my institution. I thought this company was bankrupt after FDA investigation?
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    My institution switched all lung ablation to Cryo Spray Ablation with the new TruFreeze system. Our reimbursement is just fine and our patients don't need to undergo 50 days of Photosensitivity.
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    45-50 days of photosensitivity at minimum. It's actually closer to 90 days, according to many KOLs. Mayo Clinic (All locations) is on board with the TruFreeze System. Dr. Edell Dr. Wang, Dr. Wolfsen, and other KOLs (pulmonary and GI) from Mayo are using it hand over fist.

    PDT is rarely mentioned when discussing treatment options with KOLs. It has not been a competitive procedure for a long time. One of the "Kickback Registry" participants (An MD who shall remain anonymous) said recruiting for the PDT registry is challenging since patients are doing their own research on-line and request viable treatment options. According to the KOL, if the kick back were 10 k per patient, it would not make a difference. Recruiting PDT patients is similar to searching for a needle in a haystack.

    I can't blame some of the current PDT reps for submitting their resumes to our corporate office. Don't worry, your names shall remain confidential.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Isn't a former CSA Medical Rep working for PDT now? My colleague said he's in charge of promotion of use of PDT for Cholangiocarcinoma. Has that indication been approved?
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    At PB, you don't need an FDA approval to promote PDT for Cca. You simply have multiple people promoting PDT for Cca under the guise of MSL. Guillermo stated to the former MSL on numerous occasions, "I know you're MSL, but you're really sales."

    PB does not follow FDA law. To cover their ass, they required sales reps to submit 2-3 Medical Information Request Forms per week so that it could be "turfed over " to the MSL. The MIRFs served as their license to sell off label.

    After reading everything on this board, I can't believe anyone would hire any of the employees that remain at this company. Who in their right mind would hire them?