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The Amgen decision for the bullpen vs offices

Discussion in 'Amgen' started by anonymous, May 11, 2020 at 9:40 PM.

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  1. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    BD is important only when your bench scientist are no longer incentivized to innovate, much like we are today. So, you are kinda like a good punter. When the offense fails, you need someone who can pin them inside the twenty. Congrats Reggie Roby.
     

  2. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    No. Wrong. You don't understand this busines. We use smaller companies to do discovery and preclinical for us. Then we do a deal and pick up the asset either first via licensing and then acquire it if we like it or we just acquire it. Smaller biotechs are often better are certain things. And it often derisks our business to let them get an asset to the clinic or at least to PT. You seriously have no clue how pharmaceutical development and strategy works. Stay in your lane. Every single company does this. It's how we acquired amg510 and many other assets you don't even realize. Same with 330/673. Tons of our pipeline assets were acquired during early development. We didn't bring them from discovery fool.
     
  3. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    You are wasting your time with these people. The Amgen sales team is one of the least tenured and least knowledgeable teams in the business. Certainly the worst I worked with. They have no idea and are spoon fed all their thoughts by whatever the ass kissing manager , who is equally ill informed, tells them. Sit at the bar at the next live meeting and just listen to them talk about the business. It’s like they’re all 25 year old primary care reps. They are clueless.
     
  4. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Shut your yapper and get back to work
     
  5. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

     
  6. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Always the same answer when someone is clueless. Some teenage level response with no substance that ignores everything said.
     
  7. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    You two can argue all you won't, but the TO guy refuses to address the one posters comments about what is "valued".
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous Guest


    Depends on how you view and define value. Many different ways to do so. I would say reps are far more replaceable than home office folks. I've never seen a press release announcing we hired a sales rep. The entirety of the sales role is important but the pieces/players are very interchangeable, very replaceable and it you can do it cheaply with a low level of talent. Look at the industry leading turnover rate of our field sales force...we still do very well in spite of it which would lead me to believe that those pieces are highly replaceable thus not being of high value.

    The metrics we see is that a rep has about a 7% impact on driving demand. Less in life and death TA's, higher in commodity TA's. The other 93% is driven by a variety of things including, but not limited to, the product data vs competitive product data, experience, payer mix, formulary, exposure during training, cost, access programs, patient preference/request, mass market advertising etc.
     
  9. anonymous

    anonymous Guest


    you still don't get it bean counter - value not that the person brings to shareholders, but what the person values. hard for you to understand but many field based personnel value things other than the "prestige" of a corner office, the extra $50 a year in pay, the grueling hours, the lack of deep and meaningful friendships. They simply value other things like family, fun, experiences, connection, local impact.

    you can read this as many times as you want and try to rationale how much value anyone brings the shareholder, but that's not the discussion. Now, as for your numbers, you must be either simple minded or a criminal. Who would keep an asset as expensive as the sales force with all their legacy costs (healthcare, 401k, etc) if they only had a 7% impact on demand? They should be fired for not getting rid of them. The truth is that ditto heads like you, who couldn't talk to a girl at a whorehouse, have been trying for years to get rid of sales but the Finance guys who know what they are doing know, deep down, that NOTHING drive demand like reps. The actual impact on demand varies by product, market, and lifecycle but is on average about 88%. If you were in a bean counting position high enough, you would know that. Sounds more like you are in a simple staff function. kinda like an clerk or a BA in accounting.

    Know this, there are different ways to value life and many in the sales force have a different set of values than you. Now, they are letting back to our cubes and our huddle rooms in 11 days. I'll find you and set you straight.
     
  10. anonymous

    anonymous Guest


    Please send me any link to any market research from a reputable ATU mkt research firm, and/or consultancy group like McKinsey, BAH, ZS, Symphony, or Claritas that states an 88% impact from a field sales force in bio/pharm. Please, it would be very helpful as I've been meeting with all of the above for years and we've never have seen anything above 10%, and that is for the highly commoditized TA's, like antibiotics, PPI's, OCP, antihypertensives. Oncology, Hep C, and HIV back in the day the sales force impact is around 5%. The decision to prescribe is based on data in those situations...which I think we would all agree is the right thing to do. You wouldn't want your wife getting an inferior ovarian cancer drug because the oncologist was swayed by a rep now would you? Why do you we keep a tactical function that deliverers a 7% impact you ask...well let's see...7% on a billion dollar brand is a $70M delta attributed directly to the function, on top of the revenue stream, you are paid for in about 2 months against the SG&A. Can we really attached a percentage impact to the purchasing department or the pilots who fly our planes? Of course not but they're still here aren't they? When you look at prescribing influence share stacks the rep is typically one of the lowest reasons for prescribing. Let's use actual good brands since you work at Amgen and other than Enbrel we really don't have a true blockbuster anymore. So using your logic the reason Avastin and Rituxan were successful were because of the amazing sales team at Genentech? Do you truly believe that? Both drugs, because of the data, were the standard of care with little to no competition. So who gets the credit there? The highly differentiated data on a breakthrough product or the sales rep? You think Harvoni's success was because of the sales team and not the fact that the drug cured HepC? Does not mean field support is not needed in fact look at most good oncology companies, they call their field reps account managers, recognizing that there is very little selling and more account management happening. Moving on to something more germane to you. Let's use Vectibix...is the reason Vectibix is basically a dog compared to Erbitux because the Lilly sales team is so much better than the Amgen sales team...or is it that Eribitux is a better drug with better data and more indictions thus physicians are more comfortable using it? Lastly, if the sales rep influence is so great why do almost all brands level off at about 12 to 18 months after approval? Unless a new indication comes or something happens to the competitive basket you see very incremental movement on peak share. Sure you see revenue grow due to price increases and more patients in the funnel, however the marketshare typically peaks at a year to 18 months. So if you have so much influence, 88% by your opinion, why does that happen? Are all sales territories bring in the same revenue? Don't we have high volume territories and low volume territories? Or have you never done sizing with ZS? We not pay the low volume reps less salary do we? Of course not...the impact and contribution does not matter. It's the total revenue as the P&L will almost always be positive to justify a sales force...and when it is not...we have a RIF. Which leads me to my final point...if sales at 88% impact wouldn't it be in our best interest to go out and get the best of the best and pay them accordingly? You know as well as I do that the Amgen sales force is very middle of the road in total comp versus other biotech oncology companies. Again if we valued the sales force that much we would pay them better and get getter talent.

    I know you have no idea what I am talking about. It is clear in your post that you have a very limited view of our business. Sure, when we get back I'll meet you at the head of KS, we can grab a bite and I'll give you some more free lessons...my treat.
     
  11. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Looks like big wants a promotion from Associate to Senior Associate. I will write a rec for your Cal Lutheran MBA
     
  12. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Someone who knows their shit...love it. Nice post.
     
  13. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    You're beating your head against the wall arguing with this guy. He's been given too much Kool aid over the years his mind is deranged. Everything you've stated is accurate. The guy is delusional.

    Look at the other things he even makes up:
    1) The extra $50 a year in pay --> $50 per year? Ummm no, it's a hell of a lot more than that. Anyone who's fairly successful in their careers in TO will make far more than a sales rep. It will more than make up for cost of living

    2) the grueling hours --> grueling hours? What grueling hours. Are you just making this up? Except for people in BD right around a deal or someone right prior to some governance meeting who may work a little more, people work regular 40 hour weeks. Yeah sometimes you work a little more. Guess what sometimes I work a little less too to offset weeks when a bust my ass. If an average week throughout the year of 45-50 hours is grueling, then you're a pussy and have zero work ethic at all. Investment bankers work easily 75-90 hours per week. I'm pretty sure anyone can work 50 and have plenty of time for other things in life, I certainly do.

    3) the lack of deep and meaningful friendships. They simply value other things like family, fun, experiences, connection, local impact--> and where do you come off assuming people in TO don't value these things? You're literally just making this stuff up. Did you read a credible study? I certainly value these things and I know many others do too. You tell yourself these things to justify your life. But they're based on zero data. You must be a shit sales rep. Other TO people here, do you not also value family, fun, community, etc?

    I'm tired of these baseless comparisons...on top of your already poor understanding of sales in general, as very well articulated by the previous poster, who clearly understands market data fat far better than you.
     
  14. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    What the two of you are trying to explain is incomprehensible to the majority of the sales force. It's difficult to fathom, through their arrogance, that they're expendable and easily replaced.
     
  15. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    People in the field: Kill yourselves

    - Wharton baby!
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Nah, not from a flu.
     
  17. anonymous

    anonymous Guest


    just be careful not to step in human shit when you go outside. Welcome to CA!
     
  18. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    I'm from Haas.

    Carry on moron.
     
  19. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    To be honest, I actually had to look up what Haas was. Lol...

    (Not the previous Wharton poster)
     
  20. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Thanks for playing.