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THE FIELD RIDE CIRCUS

Discussion in 'Takeda' started by anonymous, Jan 21, 2020 at 8:34 PM.

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  1. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    I don’t think I have ever seen anything like the parade of clowns who ride with reps like they do at Takeda. Every 2 weeks......it’s a DBM, ABM, RBM, FST. (Not to mention my partner taking you to the same targets a couple of weeks before) Recently, my calls have consisted of conversations like, Don’t bring them here anymore, should I make them wear costumes, my office isn’t the HR Dept....etc After providing a solid safety, efficacy and tolerability sales call, we laugh at you. Not that you don’t have any value, but the frequency and lack of respect for their time and patients is embarrassing. The door is closing on you guys. If you can’t figure it out, your job will consist of nothing more than waiting in the car and asking how the call went. Time to reinvent this broken system.
     

  2. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

     
  3. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    That is too bad, mgt is living in the past and is hurting more than helping. It all comes from the top and that is shaped by consultants that don’t have perspective. Shit rolls downhill.
     
  4. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    there are way too many middle managers. 12:1 ratio is the lowest it should ever be. Not this 8:1 crap. Managers know how uncomfortable it is to be in your car 2-3 times a month visiting the same office they were at last week with your partner. They just can’t admit it because it makes their jobs vulnerable to admit the workload is not there.
     
  5. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    If you keep keep going into the same offices, Managers will turn that around on you and say, you are only working in your comfort zone not trying to get into those difficult offices (regardless if they are no-see, they will say think outside the box). They can then work that into your coaching plan, make themselves feel like they are “coaching for success”, at the same time documenting their actions to maintain the illusion of their relevancy. A DBM is nothing more than an overpaid admin. Approve expense reports, monitor call metrics, organize conference calls and POA’s, handle HR issues. But their self-importance is akin to a millenial on Instagram. This structure of rep-manager is 20 years outdated.
     
  6. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Most pharma middle mgt are authorities they aren’t leaders (no one really follows them) and most of the them can’t sell (sad fact).

    A Customer and A Sales Professional
    followed by 5-7 levels of authorities who bring in no money and have zero accountability.
     
  7. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    I was a manager for almost 20 years. I don’t disagree with many of the comments re field rides and calling on the same group of core customers over and over.... I disliked it as much as anyone else except that it did provide some Continuity and basis of understanding what to expect from the call, and therefore could be helpful in guiding the discussion as to what approach may work best with the customer. Frankly the real value add for a manager is on boarding and training a new representative. Those opportunities were prevalent 25 years ago, not so much in today’s continually downscaling environment. At any rate you should probably understand as a rep that your manager probably feels just as stupid as you think it is to “babysit”. There are definitely opportunities for more remote coaching events that could provide equal to more value, vs “being in the field “the real opportunity lies in a rep and a manager collaborating to pick one or two areas of focus and development and then come up with a collaborative plan on what the rep will do and what the manager will do to help facilitate the process. The reality is many people just want to be left alone; that is reasonable to a degree provided there is accountability to self develop and to be focused on providing examples of their efforts in developing and hopefully some tangible results. BTW I only did 6-8 field rides per rep per year.by the end of my time, and that worked just fine.
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Change will only happen when middle managers start getting treated like they treat people. Only then will they realize why their tactics are bad for business.
     
  9. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    RMs are just if not more guilty for the behaviors. These tactics roll down hill so the RM and Dm are as much the demise of this Industry as their make shift coaching to develop someone w/ 10-15 years experience w/ the expense of pushing a Rep to do something to an MD that the Rep knows is wrong, will only irritate an MD and then close his office to Representatives.
     
  10. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    There is nothing wrong in asking for the business when asked in a professional and thoughtful way.
     
  11. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Good post, well thought out and honest. If I may critique where many of the problems start w/ "coaching" is that "Coaching has become an every ride along thing. Here is one problem I can tell you that experienced Rep find painful.

    (your quote) "the real opportunity lies in a rep and a manager collaborating to pick one or two areas of focus and development and then come up with a collaborative plan on what the rep will do and what the manager will do to help facilitate the process"

    1st. Many times, and I mean MOST times the Rep has exponential experience over the Manager in Knowledge of area, MD personalities and office dynamics. They know what works or has / has not worked in the past.

    2nd. There comes a point in a Reps career or job cycle that they no longer want to be a manager or move up the ladder. The stick that is said in an interview when asked the question "where do you see yourself in 5 years" is irrelevant. Next the "Goals" at the begininng of the year, many Reps really just want to put down "Have a nice drama free year, make my calls, do my dinner programs, work w/ others and all is good. No dog and pony show let's all act like adults and do our job go home at the end of the day and get a good rating. Unfortunately that cannot happen w/ any DM.

    Why does every single field ride need to be developmental? Why does everything single call have to be talked about? It's insanity, even if it is 6-8X a year for the experienced rep. Why can't a DM/RM go out in the field and take the temperature of the MDs in it? Listening to the conversation, hearing what the MDs are saying about the product or managed care and "ACTUALLY" taking that information back to Corp. Instead it's always developmental towards the Rep.

    Many of the managers in my 20 years were literally horrible Sales Presenters and failed to listen to any MD conversation because they had a "FIXED" agenda beforehand. Instead they should go in w/ no agenda, work along side the REP and further the business instead of being adversarial toward the rep because of some dreamed up developmental processes (Coaching) that the DM thinks "HAS" to take place.

    There used to be a time in Pharma when Reps main job was to become best friends w/ the MDs and key personnel. It was call Account Building and Management. Now if a DM/RM hears the word Rapport they freak out and say Rapport dosen't sell. That in itself is the dumbest thing I was hearing at the end of my time. Do you do business w/ people you like or people that try to paint you into a corner?

    RM/DM in it's current state lack accountability to any of the MDs inside the territories. Back in the day the DM had at least 1-4 MD that they were developing themselves along side their Representative. All they are concerned about now is the "Coach" er..Developmental of the rep at the MD expense and the MD is the Consumer writing the Product!! Currently there isn't ONE DM/RM that has a solid relationship w/ a MD and that is tragic. Read that again..the MD is the consumer and Management dosen't value them enough to form bonding relationships w/ just handful on Opinion Leaders in each district and if a Rep becomes to close to an MD it's called rapport and a DM/RM will tell you you can't sell by rapport!!! Insanity.

    I'm long gone from the Industry myself after 23 years but I know one thing is that the Offices are closing down, Hospitals are aquiring practices, Manage Care is telling MDs what they can write and more and more offices are shutting Reps out. Every thread on CP is the same about how Reps are tired of being treated like children from the Company that gives them a check. (where there is smoke there is fire). I'm not sure about anyone else here on CP but if I was running a company and was paying 100K to my employees I would be treating them like adults not children since adults make good decisions and Children not so much. I'm no rocket scientist either but I'm willing to bet that after every w/w the Rep, if treated badly or just has built up anxiety from working w/ a manager every 3-4 weeks for 2 day literally does NOTHING for 4-5 days except drive around the territory glad that the 2 day dog and pony show is over. There is not a calculator w/ enough zeros to calculate lost production from the aftermath of the field ride. If the RMs and DMs don't start listening to the MDs and their OFFICES and would stop trying to over develop experienced reps that are more experienced than the DMs then this Industry is beyond fixing. Listening is a basic SALES skill and Managers just don't do it, they keep pushing the needless fixed agendas and offices are tired of it.
     
  12. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Managers/directors should be calling on the same customers as reps. With and WITHOUT them
     
  13. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    They just need to identify 1-5 MD Opinion Leaders / Influencers in the district and make it a point to make those MDs their best friend. They can call these MDs, Key Accounts. That alone would put them in the field 5 days, they could do a lunch in those MD offices or even take that MD out to lunch/dinner program as the relationship grows. They can let the Rep know when the lunch is and to not go to that office that day. They don't have to spend all day in the field but only that one MD call. They won't though because the minute they got their manager promotion they believed it meant No More Making Calls and now they think their only job is to wreck havoc by Coaching / Develop. rep to nausea.

    It's not about the patient or the MD anymore in Pharma and hasn't been for years it's about coaching / attempting to Develop the Rep at the MD / Patient expense. I'm not sure what management is attempting to develop since there seems to be lay-offs every 2-3 years and there is slim to no path into promotional opportunities anymore. So the excessive Coaching/Development is nothing more adversarial road blocks to actually do your job day to day.
     
  14. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Time for you to retire SNOWFLAKE
     
  15. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Sorry I triggered you.

    Name calling and people wonder why Pharma reps are treated like kids.

    Did you not read the post? Long gone.

    Snowflake, not so much... why don't you get back to us after you put in 20 years w/ one company and 3 w/ another. You've probably already been w/ 3-5 companies
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Sorry - nobody wants your opinion. You are old news.
     
  17. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Must be a Manager or HR who hates to hear the reality of it all.
     
  18. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Starting next month, one of my offices is going to require managers to wear a dunce hat and a jacket in order to get in the office. I can’t wait!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Wait for what? The manager will just wait in the car for that call. You’ll still have a dumb field ride.
     
  20. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    Obviously a Takeda manager response.

    Not accepting of others ideas and instead dismisses you for saying it.