ViiV is untouchable

May do fairly well in the very few high naive territories in the nation, insurance won’t cover if a provider tries to switch a patient (90% of the business) because it is not indicated for that. This drug, like Juluca and Cab, will be a niche market. The good news is we are truly only “graded” against others at GSK with the same issues. Let’s be honest, all 3 of these drugs combined market share won’t approach Biktarvy, the market leader.

 

As someone at ViiV awhile, this is an accurate assessment. I think we have to change our mentality from that of going head to head with Gilead (and holding our own), to more patient specific selling on a much smaller scale. It will be fine, as my veteran colleagues will have to adjust just like me and compete in this same sand box.

 

This new drug is a dog

 

I agree with you. Once we went all in on the 2DR strategy, I believe we are now a niche player in the HIV industry. Dovato, Juluca, and the future CAB/RPV injectable are not going to topple the 3DR standard of care. As a ViiV employee with HIV, I wouldn’t switch from my 3DR to a 2DR. I have and would switch from a 3DR to newer 3DR.

My primary worry is that if we become a niche player, will we need the ton of reps including myself. My territory and much of my region has lost more Triumeq share than can be replaced by Dovato or Juluca.

 

1. Dovato does not have fewer side effects: the study did not run long enough to show that. So stop regurgitating stuff that was force fed to you at a sales meeting. Its adverse events were statistically "comparable" to a 3DR. Long term side effects of HIV drugs take years to show. Adverse events are different. When you show up to the doctors office with that drivel and they ask you to show the data you will be making a fool of yourself with that sales pitch.
2. As for virologic efficacy, we know from the subset analysis there was a trend towards virologic failure that was more than the comparator. Again no cigar. If anything, like juluca there will a constant decrease in virolgic efficacy as time passes. When you call on expert HIV docs, listen to exactly what they tell you. Most likely the experts in the field are not talking to anyone selling Juluca, and you have to sell to people who enjoy free lunches or to mid levels who are not particularly interested in the science. No offense, talk to experts the will tell you what the data means. Again when asked these questions by an expert, your force fed drivel will unmask it self for the tripe it is.
3. Cab always was and will be a niche drug: who in the right mind wants an injection at a doctors office when you can take a pill in the comfort and privacy of your home?. How many ml is the injection? have you EVER taken that in both buttocks because you wanted to do so and did it every month? It too is a 2 drug regimen.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but all this information is in the public realm and easily available to people on the inside. The data and the sales pitch have a significant divide. At least traverse that so that when confronted with a smart prescribe you are not left saying "but look at this table and figure here"
That being said put your best foot forward, go sell this baby.
Lets beat Biktarvy, they only had $1 billion in sales, that is not hard to do.

 

I am a TAM with ViiV and currently take Triumeq with no AEs. I would never switch to a 2DR. If I switched I would go with Biktarvy and that is just based on the fact I live with HIV and 3DR have more data long term and bictegravir is equal to dolutegravir.

We bailed on Triumeq because of ABC issues. We don’t have TAF and didn’t invest in any NRTIs. Thus we are stuck with an ancient 3TC.

I do sell Dovato and Juluca, but prefer Triumeq or any 3DR.

 

It will be years before 2dr earn their place, if ever.

 

My manager is suggesting to pigeon-hole 2dr’s for older gay men because gentler on their old organs, fewer dd interactions, AND proposes pointing out that they won’t live long enough to worry about resistance anyway.

 

Drug resistance is not something that needs 10 years to emerge. You can have resistance in a few months. The problem with that strategy is:
1. Most well trained physicians know how resistance emerges, you can sell bullshit only to those who want to buy it, not to the general market.
2. Once resistance to Lamuvidine emerges (best case scenario and an eventuality, when, not if) you have lost the ability to go back to a conventional 3DR because you listened to some idiot selling you bullshit. FTC and 3TC mutations are similar and you essentially lose one of the key components of a 3DR backbone. Every regimen that follows is compromised, thanks to the lies your company sold the market.
3. The first few cases of 2DR resistance will mean the end of Dovato
4. If physicians made the change because of the unscientific gobbledygook you sold them, you are never going to be allowed to call on those offices again.

Feel free to check what I said with current scientific literature..

 

Dovato resistance free in trials

 

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Many in ViiV positions (leadership and senior tenured reps with 25 yrs in the game) are within 3 years of plans to retire, or have made plenty of money and are padding it.

Why should tenured folks rock the current apple cart and disrupt a nice glide path?

I know that 2DR isn’t the ticket, but also know that I can stay below the radar and collect a good paycheck for easy work for a few more years.

Realistically if I were early in my career, I’d not want to hitch my wagon to ViiV or any big pharma company.

 

You are 100% correct. We should not be playing games with people’s health. I believe in Triumeq but our strategy is 2DR and the die is cast so to speak.

 

Is $130k the average base they are paying? Wondering because I’m considering an opportunity with ViiV. Appreciate any honest feedback. Thanks!

 

Never take a position for the money in this industry! ViiV is a great company but has its challenges like all companies. It is a specialty company and compensation reflects that. Hope that helps with your decision.

 

All true. ViiV is also in a downward spiral that it will not be able to pull itself out of. It is settling into a nice little niche company with niche products, so be prepared to fight for scraps!

 

Actually, I would love this to be a niche company. Pressure would be lessened or we could be spun off. Either way, I would love it! The problem is that we generate over 4 billion in sales..most of it profit. You do realize how small we are from a human resource perspective? I'm not saying we are untouchable, but we generate a crap ton of cash with yet another "niche product" with our injectable coming soon. Just do your job and work hard.

 

The problem is the definition of work; catering lunches to get access to low level staff, lying in veeva about who i saw and what i did, not getting compensated for increasing sales, lying, lying, lying all day long. Job security is nonexistent because the last round of managers were stupid and bought into the idea of more reps equals more touches on prescribers - and we all knew the inevitable outcome. And because gsk/viiv no longer pay on sales other companies see little value in hiring from their ranks. At the higher levels it is possible to use viiv as a stepping stone but at the field level you are going nowhere with viiv.

 

Too many reps, bad strategy with 2DR = all of us scrambling to try to keep our dwindling jobs. Even if ViiV is profitable, it is becoming less so daily.

 

Gilead outsmarted, outplayed, outperformed viiv at every corner. Tsk, tsk, tsk.