This is truly a bullshit job

Quote

anonymous

Guest
Hey, I'm a mid 20s MD that took the path of the MSL/Medical Affairs for the money, 8 months later i truly think the MSL job and lots of medical affairs jobs are bullshit and unnecessary. Yes, there is a need for deep scientific discussions but that's like 1 to 5% of whats HCPs want, for real, as a MD that has been on both sides of the chair we really dont care what your rep or msl is saying most of the time and yeah some HCPs actually listen and apply what you teach them.

But let's be real, they just care about the money and benefits as much as everybody else. I'm asked to go visit 3 to 5 hcps a day and i find that so unnecesary and useless. It's amazing the lengths corporations will go just to tick boxes for the corporate overlords. And thats what this job feels like, to tick a box for corporate so that we can say we are following compliance after the bad reputation big pharma has gained over the last 20 years.
 






Really depends on what therapeutic area you are an MSL in. If you are a field that is doing a ton of clinical trials it can be meaningful. Once that dries up companies have a tough time providing clear direction to their MSL's and most default to what they did at past companies. I work in oncology and when we have a lot of open trials its exciting...when the trials dry up it really becomes a bit of a customer service job, answering off label questions, meeting with KOL's while acting like there is a study down the road they may be a part of...but most likely not. It become very boring at this point and I think that leads to a lot of turnover.
 


The MSL role has radically changed over the last three years. It used to be an awesome peer-to-peer job that was highly dynamic and required significant clinical or scientific achievements, now its white coat sales. The MSL value has always been your book of business with the providers at every level, you helped with education, clinical trials/IIT research, clinical patient care and you pulled back key insights for the company to do indication expansion, position brand strategy, or better address unmet needs/gaps in an evidence generation plan that are aligned to your assets. These concepts are now just corporate word salad that Medical Affairs Leaders spit out to Executive leadership without the faintest idea how to do it!

So yes the MSL role has become more of a BS job, full of entry level PharmDs/PhD.s that don't have a clue about what it means to ad-value to an organization or anything about pharmaceutical industry. MSLs are being asked to do sales messaging, you have managers that are more concerned with getting that Global VP of Medical Affairs title than coaching or teaching.
 


Hey Bud, which Caribbean “medical school” did yous gets yous ticket punched at? QUOTE="anonymous, post: 6748739"]Hey, I'm a mid 20s MD that took the path of the MSL/Medical Affairs for the money, 8 months later i truly think the MSL job and lots of medical affairs jobs are bullshit and unnecessary. Yes, there is a need for deep scientific discussions but that's like 1 to 5% of whats HCPs want, for real, as a MD that has been on both sides of the chair we really dont care what your rep or msl is saying most of the time and yeah some HCPs actually listen and apply what you teach them.

But let's be real, they just care about the money and benefits as much as everybody else. I'm asked to go visit 3 to 5 hcps a day and i find that so unnecesary and useless. It's amazing the lengths corporations will go just to tick boxes for the corporate overlords. And thats what this job feels like, to tick a box for corporate so that we can say we are following compliance after the bad reputation big pharma has gained over the last 20 years.[/QUOTE]
 


anonymous said:
Hey, I'm a mid 20s MD that took the path of the MSL/Medical Affairs for the money, 8 months later i truly think the MSL job and lots of medical affairs jobs are bullshit and unnecessary. Yes, there is a need for deep scientific discussions but that's like 1 to 5% of whats HCPs want, for real, as a MD that has been on both sides of the chair we really dont care what your rep or msl is saying most of the time and yeah some HCPs actually listen and apply what you teach them.

But let's be real, they just care about the money and benefits as much as everybody else. I'm asked to go visit 3 to 5 hcps a day and i find that so unnecesary and useless. It's amazing the lengths corporations will go just to tick boxes for the corporate overlords. And thats what this job feels like, to tick a box for corporate so that we can say we are following compliance after the bad reputation big pharma has gained over the last 20 years.
Click to expand...
I doubt you are an MD. You come across more like a rep, judging by tone and style.
 


anonymous said:
The MSL role has radically changed over the last three years. It used to be an awesome peer-to-peer job that was highly dynamic and required significant clinical or scientific achievements, now its white coat sales. The MSL value has always been your book of business with the providers at every level, you helped with education, clinical trials/IIT research, clinical patient care and you pulled back key insights for the company to do indication expansion, position brand strategy, or better address unmet needs/gaps in an evidence generation plan that are aligned to your assets. These concepts are now just corporate word salad that Medical Affairs Leaders spit out to Executive leadership without the faintest idea how to do it!

So yes the MSL role has become more of a BS job, full of entry level PharmDs/PhD.s that don't have a clue about what it means to ad-value to an organization or anything about pharmaceutical industry. MSLs are being asked to do sales messaging, you have managers that are more concerned with getting that Global VP of Medical Affairs title than coaching or teaching.
Click to expand...
 



Amen to all that. But even the clinical trial role is sketchy and slimy. It is Pharma (corporate greed) after all. I am leaving to go back to clinical role. This role is sales in disguise and it insults my intelligence when they only train us on the positive looking studies and even tell us to spin the science. It’s disgusting.
 


anonymous said:
Really depends on what therapeutic area you are an MSL in. If you are a field that is doing a ton of clinical trials it can be meaningful. Once that dries up companies have a tough time providing clear direction to their MSL's and most default to what they did at past companies. I work in oncology and when we have a lot of open trials its exciting...when the trials dry up it really becomes a bit of a customer service job, answering off label questions, meeting with KOL's while acting like there is a study down the road they may be a part of...but most likely not. It become very boring at this point and I think that leads to a lot of turnover.
Click to expand...

Right. The clinical trials that are FUNDED by that same pharma company. And any third parties overseeing or assisting with other aspects of the trials are also funded by pharma. And the MSL is funded by pharma. If you don’t see the conflict of interest here, you are blind. The scope of influence is real. The PIs and sites want to keep the money rolling in. Too many bad study results and the pharma companies start using another research company or CRO instead. It’s all BS. I watched it happen over and over for many years, lost hope and dignity, and left the pharma industry altogether. A lot of slimy behaviors abound and GREED.
But, it’s really all about what’s best for the patients, right? If you buy that, you are not very bright. If you pretend that’s true, you’re living a lie for a big paycheck. I’d rather make less $ and work in truly evidence-based medicine that doesn’t harm patients and drive up the costs of healthcare. I know I’ve just pissed a bunch of people off, but that’s because you know deep down that it’s true. Greed and lying are sinful. Maybe that’s why so many Med Affairs people are depressed and/or drink alcohol so heavily…
 


anonymous said:
The MSL role has radically changed over the last three years. It used to be an awesome peer-to-peer job that was highly dynamic and required significant clinical or scientific achievements, now its white coat sales. The MSL value has always been your book of business with the providers at every level, you helped with education, clinical trials/IIT research, clinical patient care and you pulled back key insights for the company to do indication expansion, position brand strategy, or better address unmet needs/gaps in an evidence generation plan that are aligned to your assets. These concepts are now just corporate word salad that Medical Affairs Leaders spit out to Executive leadership without the faintest idea how to do it!

So yes the MSL role has become more of a BS job, full of entry level PharmDs/PhD.s that don't have a clue about what it means to ad-value to an organization or anything about pharmaceutical industry. MSLs are being asked to do sales messaging, you have managers that are more concerned with getting that Global VP of Medical Affairs title than coaching or teaching.
Click to expand...

100%. MSLs are now told to be “persuasive”, to share/discuss only the trials that are supportive of sales, and are now b*tches of the Sales division. We took an oath. You can’t be an MSL these days and abide by that oath or you will get a target put on your back to be “coached” to be more salesy - or terminated.
 


anonymous said:
Amen to all that. But even the clinical trial role is sketchy and slimy. It is Pharma (corporate greed) after all. I am leaving to go back to clinical role. This role is sales in disguise and it insults my intelligence when they only train us on the positive looking studies and even tell us to spin the science. It’s disgusting.
Click to expand...

SAME! I was embarrassed to work in this filthy (Philthy!) environment of BS. And I won’t talk with ANYONE from Pharma in my clinical role. They aren’t allowed in our institutions for good reason.
 


anonymous said:
SAME! I was embarrassed to work in this filthy (Philthy!) environment of BS. And I won’t talk with ANYONE from Pharma in my clinical role. They aren’t allowed in our institutions for good reason.
Click to expand...

Amen to that. MSLs are hired guns. If you havent realized you were hired to SELL and PERSUADE yet, then you are clueless. Go "educate" and "inform" and "communicate" only what the legal dept has approved - whch was hand picked for sales. why do you think they dont give MSL "doctors" access to discussing ALL trials with your "peers" in practice? They only want you to discuss the cherry-picked. If you have a graduate degree in any type of medicine, you should feel slimy because you are affecting patient lives and driving up cost of healthcare for many drugs that are inferior to generic or less expensive options. Go Team Go!
 


anonymous said:
SAME! I was embarrassed to work in this filthy (Philthy!) environment of BS. And I won’t talk with ANYONE from Pharma in my clinical role. They aren’t allowed in our institutions for good reason.
Click to expand...

Um, I think you meant "Pfilthy" if the reference was to Pfizer. Or was it to "phat filth"? Either way, I agree. This industry is full of snakes and morons. I'm going back to clinical too. Pharma industry is the most vapid field I've come across in my career.
 


anonymous said:
100%. MSLs are now told to be “persuasive”, to share/discuss only the trials that are supportive of sales, and are now b*tches of the Sales division. We took an oath. You can’t be an MSL these days and abide by that oath or you will get a target put on your back to be “coached” to be more salesy - or terminated.
Click to expand...


That is such BS! The oath any of us took was in the construct of patient care. If you are an MSL , at a drug company, you are no longer a clinician, despite what you may tell yourself...'I'm always a clinician'. You are now operating under an entirely different set of laws and regulations. If you don't like it...which is sounds like you don't then good for you, get out.

You must be very green since it's a shock to you that a publicly traded, for profit, pharmaceutical company places revenue and profits as their top priorities? Did you think you were joining the NIH or something? BTW I worked at the NCI and let me assure you the ethics, politics and slimyness are no better there, in fact they may be worse. Trust me. Big hospital systems? Good luck, did that too. Even did a stint at the VA/DOD and that may be the most unethical medical environment in the entire system.

Jobs are not needed? Yeah, because for profit drug companies are just paying people six figure incomes to do unnecessary jobs. Very altruistic of them! Cleary, they see value in those jobs...until the don't and then they lay you off. Welcome to the free market.

I went into industry with my eyes wide open, sounds like you did not. Thankfully it pays far more than any other 'clinical' position out there. I can provide far better for my family, work better hours and no one is asking or making me do anything illegal. It is a means to an end...what you thought you were chasing the world as a bench rat...give me a break.
 


anonymous said:
Right. The clinical trials that are FUNDED by that same pharma company. And any third parties overseeing or assisting with other aspects of the trials are also funded by pharma. And the MSL is funded by pharma. If you don’t see the conflict of interest here, you are blind. The scope of influence is real. The PIs and sites want to keep the money rolling in. Too many bad study results and the pharma companies start using another research company or CRO instead. It’s all BS. I watched it happen over and over for many years, lost hope and dignity, and left the pharma industry altogether. A lot of slimy behaviors abound and GREED.
But, it’s really all about what’s best for the patients, right? If you buy that, you are not very bright. If you pretend that’s true, you’re living a lie for a big paycheck. I’d rather make less $ and work in truly evidence-based medicine that doesn’t harm patients and drive up the costs of healthcare. I know I’ve just pissed a bunch of people off, but that’s because you know deep down that it’s true. Greed and lying are sinful. Maybe that’s why so many Med Affairs people are depressed and/or drink alcohol so heavily…
Click to expand...


Wow so everyone in the chain of a clinical trial are on the take? The MD's/researchers at the academic centers are risking their careers and reputations to feed the drug company's agenda? The IRB's at the institutions are turning a blind eye? The CRO's are wiling to be dishonest and risk both civil and criminal indictments? Guess that's why there are no longer any negative clinical trials? What planet are you living on? Do you know how many people would have to be in on the conspiracy to make what you are saying happen? If what you say is true I'm going to call a lot of people and see when I get my manilla envelope of cash, as I haven't seen a penny other than my salary in 25 years. There are still far more clinical trial failures vs. successes. I've worked at one of the largest centers on the west coast as a study coordinator in hem/onc, and you are so full of crap if you think there is a massive conspiracy. Off the top of my head only about 10% of the trials we were apart of ever made it to market.

So in your world we should just stop all drug development? All the drugs we have are good enough? No room for improvement? Let's just stop doing research. We are good with what we have?

Guessing you haven't done much bench work or worked closely on clinical trail development or coordination. By the way what does "truly evidence based medicine" mean to you? Would be love to know where you think that is.

Using your logic you would still be a cog in the conspiracy when you go back to research as last i checked the vast majority of research is being conducted at major academic institutions, funded by pharmaceutical/biotech companies. And save, "I'll go to the NIH or WHO". Talk about politics and corruption.
 


Tired of LinkedIn and all of the assbag recruiters (who have maybe a few, if any positions open) selling “How to Become an MSL” programs for the usual crappy marketing for whatever organizations they are fronting (MAPS, etc). Industry, whether it’s pharma, biotech, or device, is undergoing massive downsizing. MSLs have an effective shelf life of about four years until the product no longer needs the kind of value and support that MSLs provide. Just how many people have to be parasites off MSLs anyway? And the wannabes? They don’t even know they are being played like violins solely for their cash. Why doesn’t MAPS and MSLS really put out their success records for their programs?
 


MSLs don’t do anything in the companies I’ve worked for.. they present some boring spiel to the sales team during onboard Ming then disappear making it so difficult to get a hold of them
 


anonymous said:
Hey, I'm a mid 20s MD that took the path of the MSL/Medical Affairs for the money, 8 months later i truly think the MSL job and lots of medical affairs jobs are bullshit and unnecessary. Yes, there is a need for deep scientific discussions but that's like 1 to 5% of whats HCPs want, for real, as a MD that has been on both sides of the chair we really dont care what your rep or msl is saying most of the time and yeah some HCPs actually listen and apply what you teach them.

But let's be real, they just care about the money and benefits as much as everybody else. I'm asked to go visit 3 to 5 hcps a day and i find that so unnecesary and useless. It's amazing the lengths corporations will go just to tick boxes for the corporate overlords. And thats what this job feels like, to tick a box for corporate so that we can say we are following compliance after the bad reputation big pharma has gained over the last 20 years.
Click to expand...
Sounds like another idiot "doctor" that graduated from a Caribbean school that takes any moron with a detectable heartbeat. Probably didn't even get a residency after studying the basic human body, a few diagnoses, and procedures for 2 years and being a lapdog for 2 more during clinicals which I'm sure you barely passed on time.

Go back to medical, after you're actually able to. Have fun "treating" patients when you're probably only capable of refilling pre-existing patients' maintenance meds and running blood work that your nurse has to draw up, LOL.
 


anonymous said:
Hey, I'm a mid 20s MD that took the path of the MSL/Medical Affairs for the money, 8 months later i truly think the MSL job and lots of medical affairs jobs are bullshit and unnecessary. Yes, there is a need for deep scientific discussions but that's like 1 to 5% of whats HCPs want, for real, as a MD that has been on both sides of the chair we really dont care what your rep or msl is saying most of the time and yeah some HCPs actually listen and apply what you teach them.

But let's be real, they just care about the money and benefits as much as everybody else. I'm asked to go visit 3 to 5 hcps a day and i find that so unnecesary and useless. It's amazing the lengths corporations will go just to tick boxes for the corporate overlords. And thats what this job feels like, to tick a box for corporate so that we can say we are following compliance after the bad reputation big pharma has gained over the last 20 years.
Click to expand...
“I took it for the money”

Your mid 20s ass probably couldn’t match which is why you’re doing the job OR you have a foreign MD and couldn’t get through the process here.
 



Write your reply...
Top Bottom
Back
Quote