Reprocessing Study

[Anonymous]

Hello,
I am a scrub tech at a hospital that currently uses Ethicon Reprocessed devices. I recently was given a handout that showed a reprocessed harmonic with allegations staing they do not get fully cleane/disinfected. I remember when we first started using these products, our nurse educator checked all the FDA material and everything came back fine. CAn anyone shed more light on this Ethicon study?

Thank you.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello,
I am a scrub tech at a hospital that currently uses Ethicon Reprocessed devices. I recently was given a handout that showed a reprocessed harmonic with allegations staing they do not get fully cleane/disinfected. I remember when we first started using these products, our nurse educator checked all the FDA material and everything came back fine. CAn anyone shed more light on this Ethicon study?

Thank you.

Talk to your local rep because you aren't going to get an honest answer on a public, anonymous forum.

 

[Anonymous]

Like the company is going to give you information that will show you its ok to reprocess their instruments . I would suggest using the Reusable Ultrasonic product by Olympus , its actually better then the harmonic and designed to be reused.

 

[Anonymous]

Like the company is going to give you information that will show you its ok to reprocess their instruments . I would suggest using the Reusable Ultrasonic product by Olympus , its actually better then the harmonic and designed to be reused.

That's funny....

I think that there is one account in my entire state that actually uses the Sonosurg.

 

[Anonymous]

So as a tech you know all the accounts in your area.

 

[Anonymous]

So as a tech you know all the accounts in your area.

I never stated that I was a tech. You must have me confused with the OP. As a rep, I am aware of only one account within our division/state that has Sonosurg. Otherwise, it is Harmonic. We did have a few remaining accounts last year that still had Sonosurg but those were converted to Harmonic by year end.

 

[Anonymous]

I am the tech that began the thread. I found out much more info from the actual reprocessing rep about this "so called" ad. It is rally sad and disgusting that Ethicon paid of this add to hurt hospitals. I guess my eyes are open that they only care about their stupid sales. The rep showed me that Ethicon paid for this ad in Canada, so it is outside the FDA jurisdiction. He also gave us proof directly from the FDA website that 1000's of products have been tested from them and never once found a soiled scalpel. Funny how an Ethicon paid ad found 70% (out of 50) had crap on it. This just proves more and more why most hospitals get tired of reps/car salesmen.

 

[Anonymous]

I am the tech that began the thread. I found out much more info from the actual reprocessing rep about this "so called" ad. It is rally sad and disgusting that Ethicon paid of this add to hurt hospitals. I guess my eyes are open that they only care about their stupid sales. The rep showed me that Ethicon paid for this ad in Canada, so it is outside the FDA jurisdiction. He also gave us proof directly from the FDA website that 1000's of products have been tested from them and never once found a soiled scalpel. Funny how an Ethicon paid ad found 70% (out of 50) had crap on it. This just proves more and more why most hospitals get tired of reps/car salesmen.

Alright, I'll bite, where was this proof from the FDA website? If you're going to use this as your "proof" then you should be able to provide the link.

 

[Anonymous]

What a bunch of Crap. The Ethicon Rep is making stuff up to sell more and the "reprocessing rep" isn't? That reprocessing guy is protecting his business as well. Look at their own statements ... they now claim to "minimize bio-burden" on reprocessed devices. Even in their own literature they no longer say they are 100% clean. Unfortunately, your reprocessing rep doesn't want to talk about that.

Oh, by the way, does the reprocessing company fund training programs for your physicians, residents, and nurses? Does the reprocessing company reinvest money to develop new technologies to make procedures easier, faster, and safer? Does your reprocessing company donate millions in funding and products to help out in countries such as Haiti with the relief efforts? I don't think so. All the reprocessing company does is marginally clean the trash and then pocket every dollar the hospital pays them without working to advance medicine or medical knowledge.

Also ... why is it that the reprocessing company (and most likely your hospital) doesn't want the patient to know they are getting a used device? If their devices are as great as they say they are, then why isn't a patient informed, consented, and given a choice? Why do the reprocessors lobby against creating laws that would offer the patient a choice or at least a notification?

Tell me where the integrity is with all of that. Bottom line is the reprocessors want to make money and the hospital wants to save money. The patient and the physician have been taken out of this equation, but unfortunatley that is where healthcare is these days. So reprocessing companies will continue to thrive no matter how clean or dirty the devices are.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't work for Ethicon (most un-ETHICAL bunch of goobers around) but if you are the patient, are you OK with having surgeons use a reprocessed single use device in you? The OR director will say " we don't have the BUDGET to use disposables". Close your fucking hicktown hospital you backwoods shits.

 

[Anonymous]

What a bunch of Crap. The Ethicon Rep is making stuff up to sell more and the "reprocessing rep" isn't? That reprocessing guy is protecting his business as well. Look at their own statements ... they now claim to "minimize bio-burden" on reprocessed devices. Even in their own literature they no longer say they are 100% clean. Unfortunately, your reprocessing rep doesn't want to talk about that.

Oh, by the way, does the reprocessing company fund training programs for your physicians, residents, and nurses? Does the reprocessing company reinvest money to develop new technologies to make procedures easier, faster, and safer? Does your reprocessing company donate millions in funding and products to help out in countries such as Haiti with the relief efforts? I don't think so. All the reprocessing company does is marginally clean the trash and then pocket every dollar the hospital pays them without working to advance medicine or medical knowledge.

Also ... why is it that the reprocessing company (and most likely your hospital) doesn't want the patient to know they are getting a used device? If their devices are as great as they say they are, then why isn't a patient informed, consented, and given a choice? Why do the reprocessors lobby against creating laws that would offer the patient a choice or at least a notification?

Tell me where the integrity is with all of that. Bottom line is the reprocessors want to make money and the hospital wants to save money. The patient and the physician have been taken out of this equation, but unfortunatley that is where healthcare is these days. So reprocessing companies will continue to thrive no matter how clean or dirty the devices are.

Why is it important to tell the patient an item being used on them is reprocessed? The FDA says it isn't when they require a 510K clearance from the reprocessing company just like they do the OEM. Your: "Even in their own literature they no longer say they are 100% clean. Unfortunately, your reprocessing rep doesn't want to talk about that. " You just showed your true colors by posting that idiotic comment because they do not produce any literature that says that. Quite the contrary. The FDA also makes them prove their items are "substantially equivalent" (FDA defines as "The same or better") just like Ethicon had to prove when they bought the original harmonic from Ultracision.

FDA 100% backs reprocessing. Reprocessing is here to stay. I can't wait to see the high turnover rate of Ethicon Endo reps.

How do I know all this: my own company has reusable products (that have to be cleaned at Tir 30). If the FDA allows that, they will allow the reprocessing company to reverse engineer the stupid harmonic.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't work for Ethicon (most un-ETHICAL bunch of goobers around) but if you are the patient, are you OK with having surgeons use a reprocessed single use device in you? The OR director will say " we don't have the BUDGET to use disposables". Close your fucking hicktown hospital you backwoods shits.

REEEAAAALLLLY! You don't work for Ethicon, is that why your comment came 1min after the Ethicon rant.

 

[Anonymous]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

Do you trust a reprocessed device (cleared by FDA) to be used on you?

Or do you trust a product made in Juarez Mexico to be used on you?

Both have their hazards, but I would trust both to be used on me since there are no FDA findings against either one. They are both good products, so both sides need to zip it. If you are a good salesman you do not need to spread lies. Karma happens.

 

[Anonymous]

It is all the mighty $$$ these days, that is it and that is why reprocessing will thrive! When asked, 85% of clinicians and the general public would want a new device in the procedure. That is why a choice is not given.

Substantially equivalent? Your clean and comfortable toilet at your house is substantially equivalent to a porta-potty at a construction site. Both serve the same purpose, but where would you rather take a crap?

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with the above poster.

Unfortunately, this a reality that we simply have to bare with. The only way to totally do away with it. Is if Ethicon drops the price point of harmonics drastically, but then half of us will be out of jobs.

 

[Anonymous]

It is all the mighty $$$ these days, that is it and that is why reprocessing will thrive! When asked, 85% of clinicians and the general public would want a new device in the procedure. That is why a choice is not given.

Substantially equivalent? Your clean and comfortable toilet at your house is substantially equivalent to a porta-potty at a construction site. Both serve the same purpose, but where would you rather take a crap?

I agree with you. Very good points. But I also think it is about perception. The reprocessing company brought our chief doc and OR manager to their plant to view their procedures and they returned very impresssed and no longer had any concerns. We are a VHA facility and our OR manager also thought if the company is on contract with them, then other research has been done also. Don't get me wrong my perception still prefers new, but I would not argue if I go in for a lap and they tell me a reprocessed is going to be used on me. Say I am drinking the kool-aid, but our hospital saved $560K in 2009.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, by the way, does the reprocessing company fund training programs for your physicians, residents, and nurses? Does the reprocessing company reinvest money to develop new technologies to make procedures easier, faster, and safer? Does your reprocessing company donate millions in funding and products to help out in countries such as Haiti with the relief efforts? I don't think so. All the reprocessing company does is marginally clean the trash and then pocket every dollar the hospital pays them without working to advance medicine or medical knowledge.

Tell me where the integrity is with all of that. Bottom line is the reprocessors want to make money and the hospital wants to save money. The patient and the physician have been taken out of this equation, but unfortunatley that is where healthcare is these days. So reprocessing companies will continue to thrive no matter how clean or dirty the devices are.

This is the best rant I've seen on here. Uhh, hey jack, Ethicon doesn't pay for all those things you're so generously offering. The customer is paying for it through you're inflated prices. And what has Ethicon developed lately? How about you actually develop something rather than buy it.

Reprocessing makes sense when their cleaning Ethicon's devices.

I love the integrity line too. Hahaha. I'm dying over that one.

 

[Anonymous]

This is the best rant I've seen on here. Uhh, hey jack, Ethicon doesn't pay for all those things you're so generously offering. The customer is paying for it through you're inflated prices. And what has Ethicon developed lately? How about you actually develop something rather than buy it.

Reprocessing makes sense when their cleaning Ethicon's devices.

I love the integrity line too. Hahaha. I'm dying over that one.

That's awesome. The funny thing the Ethicon reps can't get through their head, is what their upper management has clued in on. They are scared to wits end that their business is going to diminish dramatically. They have expendable reps, so they put out a bogus study and make their reps be the the front to look horrible. I am sure Ethicon will see a spike in business for a few months . . . until the bogus study in Canada loses all credibility. I believe in Capitalism as next as the next American, but I also believe in being green and not sticking it to the hospitals so Congress doesn't feel they need to screw with Healthcare.

One more thing... I am sure Stryker (Fortune 500 company), did their own research and testing, why would they pay $525mil for a company that marginally cleans OR toys. That is because they know it is very easy to reverse engineer a scalpel/trocay/burr/bit/blade, and make it as sterile as it was when it came from the OEM.

 

[Anonymous]

I can tell that the ascent reos are all over this thread. Don't flatter yourselves bc you were bought by stryker. Just as your company doesn't invest in its own rd. Your company does not invest in you. That is why your not paid shit nor treated well. So stop talking junk.

You guys talk as if your paid on growth or making real dough. I'm not blowing the Ethicon horn either. This is my step to a great opportunity for my future, but I hate it when you reprocessing guys start talking trash, especially after you come rolling out with a bunch of my product from the garbage and I mean no disrespect bc we are all trying our best to make a good living for our families.

I have met some of you reprocessed reps that I thought could have done much better than selling reprocessed.

But some of you guys rub me the wrong way.

Grow up!!

 

[Anonymous]

This is the best rant I've seen on here. Uhh, hey jack, Ethicon doesn't pay for all those things you're so generously offering. The customer is paying for it through you're inflated prices. And what has Ethicon developed lately? How about you actually develop something rather than buy it.

With the exception of the Enseal acquisition, what else has Ethicon Endo purchased? The purchasing of start up companies isn't a bad idea, it's good business. Look at Covidien, they purchased Valleylab and now Stryker with the purchase of Ascent. They're both huge moneymakers now. Acquisitions are part of the game and are smart business.