Abortion discussion: When does life begin?

[Man For All Seasons]

the catholics believe life begins before conception-- that is why they ban all birth control.
And also, they believe in their own interpretation of the bible, and do not follow it literally

Respectfully, you are wrong. Catholics believe that every act of sexual intercourse should be open to the possibility of conception without the use of any artificial means to prevent it.

 

[Doc Who]

Respectfully, you are wrong. Catholics believe that every act of sexual intercourse should be open to the possibility of conception without the use of any artificial means to prevent it.

Just curious man. R they open to artificial insemination?

 

[Vagitarian]

Respectfully, you are wrong. Catholics believe that every act of sexual intercourse should be open to the possibility of conception without the use of any artificial means to prevent it.

That ignores biology though because what about sex for pure pleasure and relaxation?

 

[Man For All Seasons]

That ignores biology though because what about sex for pure pleasure and relaxation?

No. it doesn't ignore biology at all. Pleasure and relaxation is fine but Catholics believe that intercourse should be open to the possibility of conception without the use of artificial means to prevent it.

 

[Vagitarian]

No. it doesn't ignore biology at all. Pleasure and relaxation is fine but Catholics believe that intercourse should be open to the possibility of conception without the use of artificial means to prevent it.

Which just proved my point, thank you. These are religious opinions not necessarily facts. Catholics have one belief, Presbyterians have anoyther belief, they can't both be correct since they are diametrically opposed. This is like your belief that sex is right only in marriage. Jews don't share that belief. Again, they can't both be right. So morality is relative. In my church we decide what is good and what is bad and we abide by that. We do not tell others what is right or wrong like you try to. We have a code that works and does not harm society.

 

[Man For All Seasons]

Which just proved my point, thank you. These are religious opinions not necessarily facts. Catholics have one belief, Presbyterians have anoyther belief, they can't both be correct since they are diametrically opposed. This is like your belief that sex is right only in marriage. Jews don't share that belief. Again, they can't both be right. So morality is relative. In my church we decide what is good and what is bad and we abide by that. We do not tell others what is right or wrong like you try to. We have a code that works and does not harm society.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but no I didn't prove your point.

Morality is not relative. All orthodox Jews and orthodox Christians hold to the Biblical teaching of sex within marriage.

If one takes the Bible as authoritative then it clearly teaches against most of the stuff you support.

 

[Vagitarian]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but no I didn't prove your point.

Morality is not relative. All orthodox Jews and orthodox Christians hold to the Biblical teaching of sex within marriage.

If one takes the Bible as authoritative then it clearly teaches against most of the stuff you support.

'If'? If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Among Jews, 11% define themselves as orthodox - but they're all still Jews.

Among Christians? 2 - 3% but they all still call themselves Christians.

So once again, thanks for proving my point.

 

[Man For All Seasons]

'If'? If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Among Jews, 11% define themselves as orthodox - but they're all still Jews.

Among Christians? 2 - 3% but they all still call themselves Christians.

So once again, thanks for proving my point.

Once again the only point I'm proving is mine. The opinions of nonreligeous Jews holds no weight in this discussion. The vast majority of Christian churches agree with me.

 

[Vagitarian]

Once again the only point I'm proving is mine. The opinions of nonreligeous Jews holds no weight in this discussion. The vast majority of Christian churches agree with me.

Baloney! Maybe on paper but not in practice. Are you telling me that a majority of Christians do NOT practice birth control? Most all of them do. And when they do, newsflash - they're not having sex that is open to conception - they're having sex for pleasure and relation.

Used to be a Catholic doctor wouldn't even Rx birth control. Now they write with both hands.

 

[Vagitarian]

Vag, in reference to the above; I am really confused here. You made reference in an earlier post (on a different thread) you made reference to you being a Christian (which is awesome)...and then what you said above .... "In MY Church".............Now what I am confused about is how you can say these two things yet have made it clear you are an Atheist. Do Atheist have actual Church's they attend? I'm serious....just asking.....

Church of Religious Science or Universal Life Church are 2 examples. There are others.

PS, I was RAISED as a Presbyterian.


My OBGYN for YEARS and when it was time, my daughter went to this OBGYN also up until she married. He was not Catholic yet implemented a practice that he did NOT write ANY RX's for birth control....it was against what he believed (his Faith). If I had an appointment first thing in the morning he had a sign posted to kindly wait...they were in prayer. I went to him for well over 20 yrs.

Right before he started his new rule to not rx BC (in 2006), my daughter was married by that time yet she switched doctors....for that reason as well as wanting a female doctor (younger too since he was nearing retirement.) His new rule didn't seem to hurt his practice...he was an awesome doctor (now retired).

That's a nice story, there are a FEW like that even today but what I said was, do you (or MFAS) know any couples ) Catholic or Christian) who practice ZERO birth control? If they practice any BC ever, they are engaging in sex for reasons other than conception.

PS, I'll bet money that MFAS & Mrs MFAS have domne it a time or two too.

 

[AnswerMan4Ever!]

. In my church we decide what is good and what is bad and we abide by that. We do not tell others what is right or wrong like you try to. We have a code that works and does not harm society.

Atheists have churches now?

OK I read further...So what exactly do you do at church vag?

The Universal Life Church is a non-denominational non-profit organization that is devoted to spreading religious freedom and tolerance throughout the world under its moniker “We are all children of the same universe”. Our primary service is to make it possible for anyone who is called into the ministry to get ordained for free to become a pastor or wedding officiant. People get ordained from all faiths and backgrounds in order to perform a wedding, conduct a funeral, baptize, and preside over religious services.
The Universal Life Church has strong convictions that all people are free to practice their beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are, so long as they do not infringe on the rights of others and are within the law. Persons who are non-religious and anti-religious alike can be ordained for free through the Universal Life Church. We are looking to change negative perception of religion while encouraging people to fearlessly state their religious beliefs, even if that means that one does not have any beliefs. This church seeks to fulfill the spiritual needs of as many different groups as possible by offering a wide variety of services and information.

I gotta tell ya vag, you don't seem to be very tolerant of MFAS's beliefs.

 

[Breakingnews]

I gotta tell ya vag, you don't seem to be very tolerant of MFAS's beliefs.

You are clearly confused. It is MFAS who is not very tolerant of other RP's beliefs, in fact, he has gotten even more rigid after crawling back from under the rock he has been hiding under since early November.

 

[GorgeousGAMS]

One, life begins before conception depending upon how someone wishes to define "life." Even a microbe is alive. Two, if you believe in a spirit or soul, than life begins before conception and continues on after death. While I believe in keeping abortion legal and feel it is a difficult choice for the majority of women who seek one, it is not a form of birth control. Two, and contrary to popular opinion, it is typically not because a "child is unwanted." Those are inflamatory terms. Too many social, emotional, health, economic and pscyhological factors come into play when a woman must choose. This is a completely no win debate.

 

[AnswerMan4Ever!]

You are clearly confused. It is MFAS who is not very tolerant of other RP's beliefs, in fact, he has gotten even more rigid after crawling back from under the rock he has been hiding under since early November.

WRONG! inference as usual WRONGBREAKINGNEWSMAN!
I never said that MFAS was tolerant of anyone's beliefs.
And I never said that MFAS follows a religion that claims to be tolerant of others beliefs. (Vag claimed that he follows such a religion though.)

btw
It's Vag that always gets his panties in a bunch when MFAS states his beliefs.
MFAS always stays calm and cool and actually does tolerate Vag's sometimes(usual) crazy attacks on MFAS's beliefs.
MFAS almost always tries to have a logical argument with Vag about things, and tries to persuade Vag to his thinking. I don't recall MFAS using absurd analogies to denigrate Vag's beliefs.
So, in reality it is MFAS who IS tolerant of Vag's beliefs, even though I wasn't stating that in my original post.


Now SIT BN!
Stay BN!
Rollover BN!

owned once again

 

[Breakingnews]

WRONG! inference as usual WRONGBREAKINGNEWSMAN!
I never said that MFAS was tolerant of anyone's beliefs.
And I never said that MFAS follows a religion that claims to be tolerant of others beliefs. (Vag claimed that he follows such a religion though.)

btw
It's Vag that always gets his panties in a bunch when MFAS states his beliefs.
MFAS always stays calm and cool and actually does tolerate Vag's sometimes(usual) crazy attacks on MFAS's beliefs.
MFAS almost always tries to have a logical argument with Vag about things, and tries to persuade Vag to his thinking. I don't recall MFAS using absurd analogies to denigrate Vag's beliefs.
So, in reality it is MFAS who IS tolerant of Vag's beliefs, even though I wasn't stating that in my original post.


Now SIT BN!
Stay BN!
Rollover BN!

owned once again

Your above rambling post only serves to prove that you have some serious issues that go well beyond the reaches of this site. Your online mental breakdown is now complete.

As far as "owning' anyone, that is just another one of your WRONG answers.

Now go back to your corner, Goob.

 

[Breakingnews]

One, life begins before conception depending upon how someone wishes to define "life." Even a microbe is alive. Two, if you believe in a spirit or soul, than life begins before conception and continues on after death. While I believe in keeping abortion legal and feel it is a difficult choice for the majority of women who seek one, it is not a form of birth control. Two, and contrary to popular opinion, it is typically not because a "child is unwanted." Those are inflamatory terms. Too many social, emotional, health, economic and pscyhological factors come into play when a woman must choose. This is a completely no win debate.

As usual, GG checks in with a RIGHT answer.

 

[Vagitarian]

Atheists have churches now?

OK I read further...So what exactly do you do at church vag?

The Universal Life Church is a non-denominational non-profit organization that is devoted to spreading religious freedom and tolerance throughout the world under its moniker “We are all children of the same universe”. Our primary service is to make it possible for anyone who is called into the ministry to get ordained for free to become a pastor or wedding officiant. People get ordained from all faiths and backgrounds in order to perform a wedding, conduct a funeral, baptize, and preside over religious services.
The Universal Life Church has strong convictions that all people are free to practice their beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are, so long as they do not infringe on the rights of others and are within the law. Persons who are non-religious and anti-religious alike can be ordained for free through the Universal Life Church. We are looking to change negative perception of religion while encouraging people to fearlessly state their religious beliefs, even if that means that one does not have any beliefs. This church seeks to fulfill the spiritual needs of as many different groups as possible by offering a wide variety of services and information.

I gotta tell ya vag, you don't seem to be very tolerant of MFAS's beliefs.

Oh I tolerate his beliefs, in fact there are others here with similar ones. We discuss, we don't mix it up. I know of 2 people here who have him on ignore because they find his prosthyletizing so caustic. He preaches, prosthylitizes and tells not only me but others we're wrong. I've never say that, I say we're all right. Another example. P Ho has been very open about his beliefes being fundamental and he goes by the bible. Am I intolerant of him? HE's one of my faves and if he were in town, we'd be having a beer or a Crown.

BTW, another non-denominational church that truly is wonderful is the Unitarian chruch. We took our children there and their Sunday scnhool cvlasses taught tem about every religion there is, the puirpose of religion and that we're all probably praying (those who pray) to the same god (or life force if you will). As far as what do adults do? We sing (Morning is broken by Cat Stevens is popular) and we talk about life. It's like a fellowship. We also raise funds for families and charities. The difference is, we agree there is a creative force by which everything got here but we don't think it cares about someone having sex for reasons other than to bring kids into the world. We don't put people down if that's what they do OR if they just enjoy their sex life - that's THEIR business.

 

[AnswerMan4Ever!]

Oh I tolerate his beliefs, .

Dude, you attack MFAS's beliefs constantly with your vivid and ludicrous analogies of the Bible.

 

[Vagitarian]

WRONG! inference as usual WRONGBREAKINGNEWSMAN!
I never said that MFAS was tolerant of anyone's beliefs.
And I never said that MFAS follows a religion that claims to be tolerant of others beliefs. (Vag claimed that he follows such a religion though.)

btw
It's Vag that always gets his panties in a bunch when MFAS states his beliefs.
MFAS always stays calm and cool and actually does tolerate Vag's sometimes(usual) crazy attacks on MFAS's beliefs.
MFAS almost always tries to have a logical argument with Vag about things, and tries to persuade Vag to his thinking. I don't recall MFAS using absurd analogies to denigrate Vag's beliefs.
So, in reality it is MFAS who IS tolerant of Vag's beliefs, even though I wasn't stating that in my original post.


Now SIT BN!
Stay BN!
Rollover BN!

owned once again

Excuse me? MFAS is tolerant of my posts? Please read this characterization of one of my posts. He says it's 'another deranged post'. Is that tolerance?

http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showpost.php?p=4602367&postcount=60

 

[AnswerMan4Ever!]

Your above rambling post only serves to prove that you have some serious issues that go well beyond the reaches of this site. Your online mental breakdown is now complete.

As far as "owning' anyone, that is just another one of your WRONG answers.

Now go back to your corner, Goob.

I.e., BN does not have the facilities to refute what I said so he has to use one of his old and stale responses from an old and stale forum.