How is it going out there with this new product of your's. I saw in one of my offices, doc said it could be big.
Cerefolin
- Thread starter Anonymous
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
The response in my territory has been encouraging, only drawback is there is no comparitive studies and many docs have questioned that.
The response I've received has been pretty overwhelming from the neurologists. Other doctors are definitely agreeing that the product might work. Current studies have been received relatively well. Could be big, but big to us not a big pharma.
I think it is sad what the company is doing with this vitamin. It is unethical and it is sad. They point to the Nilsson study that was designed to look at folate defficiency. They then point to a 4 point improvement in MMSE scores and say it is a wonder drug. That don't tell doctors that the margin of error was greater than 4 points (+/- 8.3)
These patients are suffering - need their money - and do not need to be taken advantage of by somone selling snake oil. They say it is cheaper than the medicines that actually work - but they do not account for the fact that the others are covered by insurance.
This is sad, tragic, and completely unethical. I pitty the poor reps that have to push this product. But mostly I feel for the people who waste their money on it thinking that they will regain their memory. In meetings you will hear reps tell amazing stories - but if you are a Doctor ask them for one concrete study. Just one - and see what they say.
Shame on Pan American Laboratories for what they are doing.
These patients are suffering - need their money - and do not need to be taken advantage of by somone selling snake oil. They say it is cheaper than the medicines that actually work - but they do not account for the fact that the others are covered by insurance.
This is sad, tragic, and completely unethical. I pitty the poor reps that have to push this product. But mostly I feel for the people who waste their money on it thinking that they will regain their memory. In meetings you will hear reps tell amazing stories - but if you are a Doctor ask them for one concrete study. Just one - and see what they say.
Shame on Pan American Laboratories for what they are doing.
If you are so much above Pamlab and only want to get on this site and reply negatively every few weeks to about 3 or 4 post in a row, get a life. If life is so better and you are so better why are you checking our site so often...Get lost loser
WRONG... DEAD WRONG ABOUT NILSSON DATA. THE MARGIN OF ERROR??? THIS (+/-8.3) IS THE MEAN VALUE DIFFERENCE OF THE LOWEST TO HIGHEST IN THE BASELINE GROUP. IT IS 4.7 IN THE FOLLOW-UP DATA. THE MULTIVARIATE OUTCOME DATA SHOWED THAT PATIENTS WITH MILD-MODERATE DEMENTIA AND ELEVATED HCY CONCENTRATIONS HAD AN IMPROVED MMSE SCORE AFTER VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTATION. WITHOUT SIDE EFFECTS! FOR $30 A MONTH.
YOU ALSO ARE MISTAKEN WHEN YOU SAY THE POINT OF THE STUDY WAS COBALAMIN AND FOLATE DEFICIENCIES. YOU MAY WANT TO GO BACK AND READ NILSSON'S STUDY AGAIN. YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMTHING. YOU COULD ALSO GO THE MEDICAL SCHOOL OR EVEN SPEND A FEW HOURS AT YOU AREA MEDICAL SCHOOL LIBRARY.
BOTTOM LINE: DR. NILSSON PRESENTED A STRONG CREDIBLE STUDY WITH THE HOPE OF HELPING HER PATIENTS ON ALL PATIENTS WITH DEMENTIA. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HER DATA YOU CAN FIND HER CONTACT INFORMATION ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE Int J Geriatr Psychiatry 2001; 609-614.
Good day
YOU ALSO ARE MISTAKEN WHEN YOU SAY THE POINT OF THE STUDY WAS COBALAMIN AND FOLATE DEFICIENCIES. YOU MAY WANT TO GO BACK AND READ NILSSON'S STUDY AGAIN. YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMTHING. YOU COULD ALSO GO THE MEDICAL SCHOOL OR EVEN SPEND A FEW HOURS AT YOU AREA MEDICAL SCHOOL LIBRARY.
BOTTOM LINE: DR. NILSSON PRESENTED A STRONG CREDIBLE STUDY WITH THE HOPE OF HELPING HER PATIENTS ON ALL PATIENTS WITH DEMENTIA. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HER DATA YOU CAN FIND HER CONTACT INFORMATION ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE Int J Geriatr Psychiatry 2001; 609-614.
Good day
WRONG... DEAD WRONG ABOUT NILSSON DATA. THE MARGIN OF ERROR??? THIS (+/-8.3) IS THE MEAN VALUE DIFFERENCE OF THE LOWEST TO HIGHEST IN THE BASELINE GROUP. IT IS 4.7 IN THE FOLLOW-UP DATA. THE MULTIVARIATE OUTCOME DATA SHOWED THAT PATIENTS WITH MILD-MODERATE DEMENTIA AND ELEVATED HCY CONCENTRATIONS HAD AN IMPROVED MMSE SCORE AFTER VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTATION. WITHOUT SIDE EFFECTS! FOR $30 A MONTH.
YOU ALSO ARE MISTAKEN WHEN YOU SAY THE POINT OF THE STUDY WAS COBALAMIN AND FOLATE DEFICIENCIES. YOU MAY WANT TO GO BACK AND READ NILSSON'S STUDY AGAIN. YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMTHING. YOU COULD ALSO GO THE MEDICAL SCHOOL OR EVEN SPEND A FEW HOURS AT YOU AREA MEDICAL SCHOOL LIBRARY.
BOTTOM LINE: DR. NILSSON PRESENTED A STRONG CREDIBLE STUDY WITH THE HOPE OF HELPING HER PATIENTS ON ALL PATIENTS WITH DEMENTIA. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HER DATA YOU CAN FIND HER CONTACT INFORMATION ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE Int J Geriatr Psychiatry 2001; 609-614.
Good day
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow! So you went to med school and you are now working for Pamlab - commendable career choice!
I hate to go here - I should just let this go. I left the company after the National meeting and went to another pharma company. I left because the Cerefolin message was unethical, and it became clear to me that this company was about stuffing their own pockets at the expense of their employees, and the general public. The Cerefolin message makes that transparent.
What was the conclusion of the Nilsson study?
"Conclusion Plasma homocysteine may be the best MARKER for detecting treatable cobalamin/folate DEFICIENCY in patients with demintia."
Some wonder drug.
I have zero doubt that Karin Nilsson conducted a study to help patients. The problem comes when Pamlabs twists that study for their own profit.
Look at the results. Baseline MMSE scores were 17.2 +/- 8.3(for the patients that supposedly realized improvement - those with HCY levels >19.9)
The so called improvement was 21.4 +/- 4.7
Look closer:
Starting MMSE scores: somewhere from 8.9 to 25.5
Improved scores: somewhere from 16.7 to 26.1
Do you see the problem with this study? There is absolutely 0 clinical significance here. These patients could have gotten worse. The margin of era makes the results impossible to discern. The patients could have started at 23 and ended at 20.
The problems worsen by the way.
The study notes that two patients were severly demented and could not cooperate before the test but cooperated well at follow up. Were they having bad days? The study says earlier that only patients who could cooperate before and after were used - and then two pages later it admits to using patients that could only cooperate after.
It was not a double blind study. It had less than 40 patients. And how were the numbers affected by the two mistery patients?
Do not misunderstand. I felt good about selling FOLTX - I knew I was helping people. I felt bad for the company when FOLTX went generic. But they lied to reps and said it was protected. They lied when I asked them about it on October 17 and they told me that it would be protected for 7 more years. They new then that the generic was coming and they later admitted that to me. I also think Cerefolin is superior to FOLTX in treating endothelial function and HCY defficiency.
But I could not justify selling Cerefolin for cognitive improvement. I could not walk into a Doctors office and tell them that patients in the study had a 25% improvement in MMSE scores. That would have been a lie.
I feel for you, and I hope you get out of this company for your own sake.
Rationalize, rationalize, rationalize. I hope that helps you sleep better at night. In the end, I applied some of those Christian values that Pamlab is so fond of talking about, but so incapable of practicing.
All you people thinking cerefolin is going to be some blockbuster drug, even for a small pharma company are drinking too much of the kool-aid they are handing out. Remember what they said about palgic when it was launched? It was going to blow the foltx numbers out of the water. Right? Listen, I applaud the management at Pamlab for trying to sell Medical Foods as true cures for alzheimers, dementia, cvd, chd, etc., but the bottom line is that unless you can find doctors who believed in medical foods to begin with, you will have a hard time changing anyones mind.
Pamlab has great enthusiasm when they launch a new drug, which I commend them for, but if you can't keep a drug from going generic, WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE. The lie that we were told in March about how the new 2mg had a better patent and they anticipated no more generics was a joke. Now they are suing the wholesalers? What the
fu!@. Why on gods green earth would you sue the very people that help grow your business.
My belief is that this company grew too fast, which isn't a bad thing, but management had no idea how to handle it. I think they are clueless on many issues.
Good company, but can you deal with all the headaches?
Pamlab has great enthusiasm when they launch a new drug, which I commend them for, but if you can't keep a drug from going generic, WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE. The lie that we were told in March about how the new 2mg had a better patent and they anticipated no more generics was a joke. Now they are suing the wholesalers? What the
fu!@. Why on gods green earth would you sue the very people that help grow your business.
My belief is that this company grew too fast, which isn't a bad thing, but management had no idea how to handle it. I think they are clueless on many issues.
Good company, but can you deal with all the headaches?
Who gives a shit about the Nillson study. IT USED FOLATE, NOT METAFOLIN. Where is the study using metafolin? How the hell can we sell foltx and cerefolin. Now they are getting rid of foltx in march and replacing it with cerefolin's little bitch, medinex. What the hell is going on? I hear the only difference is an antioxident, or titty milk or something they are going to add, because of some study they dug up out of belguim or guam or somewhere.
Why don't they take the 1 to 2 million they are wasting suing rite aid, and the money the are going to waste suing the wholesalers over genericed foltx, and have there own study done, using metafolin.
and please, someone tell me WHY THEY DID NOT PUT METAFOLIN IN FOLTX TO BEGIN WITH?. It was to expensive... right. Good one.
Why don't they take the 1 to 2 million they are wasting suing rite aid, and the money the are going to waste suing the wholesalers over genericed foltx, and have there own study done, using metafolin.
and please, someone tell me WHY THEY DID NOT PUT METAFOLIN IN FOLTX TO BEGIN WITH?. It was to expensive... right. Good one.
This company and most of these posts make me think of the Titanic. Pamlabs, like the titanic has been wavering for a while, the captain of the ship(SAM) made mistakes and cannot straighten the ship, The ship fills with water by getting hit by multiple generic that was to be unbreakable, smart classy passengers run to safty just like smart ex-reps who saw the inevitable, then there are the loyalist to the company/ship who are so enamered in the Ship/Pamlabs that they don't see they are going to die, cannot see reality and there doom will be horrific. The life boats have sailed, looking back seeing the lights pop, the smoke chimineys break of and explode their last exaust, seeing SAM and the staff yelling "stay the course", "Work longer hours", "Get a doctors letter", "Sell against OTC, generics", "detail in a mirror at night", "Get on a knee and propose a Palgic pill"!!! And when you wake up free of Pamlabs, having nothing than the clothes on your back. A Bigger company, a better ship comes by and offers you double the money, great products and the chance to make a difference. The Titanic will be a faint memory when you get that bigger check, 5K commission check, 3 weeks of Vacation, and company credit card with a $1000 expense account.
You sure seem to be involved with what we are doing now that you have gone on to bigger and better as you say .. So tell me, were is it that the grass is so much greener and what are my guarentees that it will stay that way. Pan Am pays me more than my last job and i'm not cooped up in an office all day.. so there
Again I ask, ... Where should I go? Merck, Pfizer or maybe one of the other companies with boards on here. Every board I look at is full of unhappy people who complain about how crappy their company is. Where is the board full of good news and happy people? I want to know so that I can apply there
Dude, Pfizer and Merck have more on there shelves just waiting to be sold than Pamlabs will ever have. Every Pharma company on the list would be better than Pamlabs. At any other company you would get a commission check and a salary that is comprable to your talents and abilities. Most companies offer a training bonus ranging from 5-10K, how can that not be better than Pamlabs. Most of those companies on the list offer 2-4 weeks of vacation so you can spend time with your family which is a sign of respect. Not at Pamlabs unless you want to take the time off unpaid. Forget your two week honeymoon or your friends bachelor party in Vegas!! So go apply to every company on the board and I can guarantee it will be better than Pamlabs! Or you can wait for your salary increase, and your commission check and take your family out to Sizzler for a nice buffett dinner. Would your commission check cover dinner here???hmmmm?
bottom line: I have seen everything from whinning about no commision to pissing contests entrys from guys who have left Pamlab or should leave.
1. If you are not happy about the money YOU make then get out of bed and go make some.
2. If you are so unhappy about the way YOU THINK things are at Pamlab then leave. If you have left, then it is just plain sad that you are on this dive of a web site to begin with.
1. If you are not happy about the money YOU make then get out of bed and go make some.
2. If you are so unhappy about the way YOU THINK things are at Pamlab then leave. If you have left, then it is just plain sad that you are on this dive of a web site to begin with.