Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Do you mean serum derived immunoglobilins? Then yes....Please educate yourself regarding this compound and then go talk to your docotrs about immunoglobulins in an intelligent matter vs. yelling Cow's Blood over and over again hoping to evoke some pandemic response. Don't be scared it won't hurt to be educated.
IgG 2000 vs. Colostrum and Milk
ImmunoLin Colostrum Milk
Somatic Cell Count: Not Detected >1,000,000 ml/cell <750,000 ml/cell
Age of Animals: 1-3 years 3-6 years 3-6 years
Inspection: Yes No Yes
Recombinant BST: No Yes Yes
Processing: Extensive Spray Dried Only Spray Dried Only
Notes:
No neural tissue, cell count is very low
Serum is collected from inspected, young, healthy beef animals
Recombinant BST is not approved for use in beef cattle
Extensive processing using membranes and dilution eliminates the possibility
of antibiotics
Somatic Cells
Definition: (so-MAT-ik) All of the body cells except the reproductive germ cells.
Somatic Cells or Leucocytes (white blood cells) is “where” the prions (agent of BSE) would be ‘if’ the animal were infected. The US has an allowable legal maximum of 750,000 cells/ml in milk. Therefore, the relationship between ImmunoLin and milk is that ImmunoLin is even safer than milk as somatic cells are not detected due to our extensive processing.
Reference Article:
Somatic Cells, Mastitis and Milk Quality
by Winston Ingalls, Ph.D West Agro, Inc., Kansas City, MO
Milk somatic cell count (SCC) is a constant topic of discussion within the dairy industry. It can be a complex and confusing issue, yet it is important that dairy producers understand the importance of somatic cell counts and the relationships between cell counts and other factors. Somatic cell counts have legal, animal health, milk quality and productivity implications and each is important.
Somatic Cell Function
Dairy cows have evolved a complex internal body system that enables them to defend and rid themselves of threats such as those posed by invading bacteria. They have the ability to mobilize and direct bacteria fighting cells to the udder if a bacterial infection commences in the gland. These cells termed, " somatic cells or leucocytes " move to the infection site and initially act to minimize the infection and then eventually they help eliminate it. Somatic cells are equipped with a variety of tools to accomplish this task.
The initial step taken by the body in limiting the extent of an infection is determining when to move somatic cells to the infected region. Whenever infection develops there is inevitably some tissue damage which releases a variety of different chemical compounds into the system. The body detects and interprets the presence of such materials as a call to action and very rapidly, large quantities of somatic cells are directed to the infection site.
Once at the infection site they have to locate the invading bacteria. Again the body has evolved a mechanism that is quite effective in doing so. It is not absolutely foolproof and a cell may mistake a milk fat droplet for a bacteria, but for the most part, it can recognize the bacteria and move in on them. Somatic cells, after contacting the bacteria, tend to lock on and envelope or internalize the bacteria. This process of internalization is referred to as phagocytosis. Once bacteria are internalized the cells proceed to destroy them by using various mechanisms including a number of enzymes capable of digesting bacterial components. When successful they can stop an infection before it becomes severe enough to cause major problems and that is the desired result.
Years of study of this topic have provided scientists a good understanding of the infection process and the normal body response. One generally accepted conclusion is that the concentration of somatic cells, in the milk, is directly related to the infection status of the udder. All other possible factors are of lesser consequence. Stated another way, if the cell count is high the cow has mastitis or inflammation of the mammary gland. No other factor(s) influences the milk somatic cell count to the degree that bacterial infections do.
Therefore, in the day to day management of the dairy, infection status of the herd can be monitored effectively by monitoring the SCC of bulk tank milk or individual cow samples.
What is Normal and What May be Unacceptable?
Research has demonstrated that an uninfected cow can have a milk SCC well below 100,000/ml and herds, with low infection levels, may have overall herd cell counts below 100,000. Such levels are an indication of low infection rates and a general indication that many things are being done correctly. When the overall SCC reaches approximately 200,000/ml it is an indication that a certain low number of cows are infected and the question always is, what is the cause?
As the cell count elevates it is directly related to more quarters of more cows being infected. This may result in cell levels of 400,000-800,000 cells/ml and such levels are a concern for several reasons.
First, there is a relationship to the milk producing capability. Based on analysis of large amounts of data it is apparent that in second and later lactation cows each time the SCC doubles, above 200,000 cells/ml, the level of milk production drops approximately 1.5 pounds/cow/day. In first calf heifers the reduction is considered to be approximately half this amount. Infected cows have elevated cell counts and diminished production due to tissue damage.
For example, a herd at 200,000 SCC, would be considered as doing well and yet they would be experiencing a loss of approximately 1.5 pounds/cow/ day. When the SCC rises to 400,000 the loss increases to about 3.0 pounds/cow/day and at 800,000 it is approximately 4.5 lbs/cow/day. Loss of production potential can be significant as the cell count rises to such levels.
Bonus Payments For Low Cell Count Milk
Most milk buyers have implemented some form of bonus payment plan that usually considers SCC as well as other factors. These plans are based on straightforward economic factors. If the milk, a producer provides, has more value to the processor, they benefit and are willing to share some of the increased value with the producers.
One of the reasons why there is a willingness to pay bonuses for low cell count milk relates to the relationship between the SCC and the amount of cheese that can be harvested from a pound of milk. The higher the cell count the lower the cheese yield and vice versa. High SCC milk may also produce a cheese that is of lesser quality. It is therefore in the best interest of everyone to produce milk with a low somatic cell count.
With a bonus plan in place, at 400,000 cells/ml, loss of a bonus payment of 10-20 cents per hundredweight would occur and this would amount to a significant annual loss. In certain situations such an income shortfall may cause financial problems.
Milk Keeping Quality
In addition to concerns about cheese yield is the issue of keeping quality of the milk. When the somatic cells destroy bacteria, left behind are enzymes that have been involved in the process. These enzymes are often resistant to pasteurization procedures and can cause milk fat and protein damage. This can result in serious off-flavors in milk that consumers find objectionable. It also may reduce shelf life significantly, even when milk is kept properly refrigerated.
Somatic Cell Counts-Legal Implications
The legal issue relates to the legal maximum limit for somatic cells as stated in the PMO for Grade A milk. It is currently at 750,000 cells/ml. If, for some reason a producer has problems that cause the SCC to rise to this level or greater then they will have problems keeping their Grade A permit and a number of changes will have to be implemented. With the constant emphasis on the topic such situation are much less common today than in the past but they still occur.
The second "legal" issue regarding cell count levels is related to international trade considerations. Milk and milk products are valuable food items traded amongst various parts of the world. Inevitably any item that is traded becomes subject to standards and milk is no exception. The European Union, New Zealand, Australia and a few other countries have adopted a standard for maximum allowable cell counts in their Grade A type milk of 400,000 cell/ml. Canada presently is at 500,000 while the US has an allowable legal maximum of 750,000. In the international trade arena it is likely that major milk exporters will lobby for their standard to be the international standard and may well make it difficult to compete unless that standard is met. If the US wants to be a player in the international milk export market it will likely have to debate this issue and move towards a lower upper limit similar to what may now exist in Europe. Be prepared for this eventuality and be prepared to participate in the discussion.
IgG 2000 vs. Colostrum and Milk
ImmunoLin Colostrum Milk
Somatic Cell Count: Not Detected >1,000,000 ml/cell <750,000 ml/cell
Age of Animals: 1-3 years 3-6 years 3-6 years
Inspection: Yes No Yes
Recombinant BST: No Yes Yes
Processing: Extensive Spray Dried Only Spray Dried Only
Notes:
No neural tissue, cell count is very low
Serum is collected from inspected, young, healthy beef animals
Recombinant BST is not approved for use in beef cattle
Extensive processing using membranes and dilution eliminates the possibility
of antibiotics
Somatic Cells
Definition: (so-MAT-ik) All of the body cells except the reproductive germ cells.
Somatic Cells or Leucocytes (white blood cells) is “where” the prions (agent of BSE) would be ‘if’ the animal were infected. The US has an allowable legal maximum of 750,000 cells/ml in milk. Therefore, the relationship between ImmunoLin and milk is that ImmunoLin is even safer than milk as somatic cells are not detected due to our extensive processing.
Reference Article:
Somatic Cells, Mastitis and Milk Quality
by Winston Ingalls, Ph.D West Agro, Inc., Kansas City, MO
Milk somatic cell count (SCC) is a constant topic of discussion within the dairy industry. It can be a complex and confusing issue, yet it is important that dairy producers understand the importance of somatic cell counts and the relationships between cell counts and other factors. Somatic cell counts have legal, animal health, milk quality and productivity implications and each is important.
Somatic Cell Function
Dairy cows have evolved a complex internal body system that enables them to defend and rid themselves of threats such as those posed by invading bacteria. They have the ability to mobilize and direct bacteria fighting cells to the udder if a bacterial infection commences in the gland. These cells termed, " somatic cells or leucocytes " move to the infection site and initially act to minimize the infection and then eventually they help eliminate it. Somatic cells are equipped with a variety of tools to accomplish this task.
The initial step taken by the body in limiting the extent of an infection is determining when to move somatic cells to the infected region. Whenever infection develops there is inevitably some tissue damage which releases a variety of different chemical compounds into the system. The body detects and interprets the presence of such materials as a call to action and very rapidly, large quantities of somatic cells are directed to the infection site.
Once at the infection site they have to locate the invading bacteria. Again the body has evolved a mechanism that is quite effective in doing so. It is not absolutely foolproof and a cell may mistake a milk fat droplet for a bacteria, but for the most part, it can recognize the bacteria and move in on them. Somatic cells, after contacting the bacteria, tend to lock on and envelope or internalize the bacteria. This process of internalization is referred to as phagocytosis. Once bacteria are internalized the cells proceed to destroy them by using various mechanisms including a number of enzymes capable of digesting bacterial components. When successful they can stop an infection before it becomes severe enough to cause major problems and that is the desired result.
Years of study of this topic have provided scientists a good understanding of the infection process and the normal body response. One generally accepted conclusion is that the concentration of somatic cells, in the milk, is directly related to the infection status of the udder. All other possible factors are of lesser consequence. Stated another way, if the cell count is high the cow has mastitis or inflammation of the mammary gland. No other factor(s) influences the milk somatic cell count to the degree that bacterial infections do.
Therefore, in the day to day management of the dairy, infection status of the herd can be monitored effectively by monitoring the SCC of bulk tank milk or individual cow samples.
What is Normal and What May be Unacceptable?
Research has demonstrated that an uninfected cow can have a milk SCC well below 100,000/ml and herds, with low infection levels, may have overall herd cell counts below 100,000. Such levels are an indication of low infection rates and a general indication that many things are being done correctly. When the overall SCC reaches approximately 200,000/ml it is an indication that a certain low number of cows are infected and the question always is, what is the cause?
As the cell count elevates it is directly related to more quarters of more cows being infected. This may result in cell levels of 400,000-800,000 cells/ml and such levels are a concern for several reasons.
First, there is a relationship to the milk producing capability. Based on analysis of large amounts of data it is apparent that in second and later lactation cows each time the SCC doubles, above 200,000 cells/ml, the level of milk production drops approximately 1.5 pounds/cow/day. In first calf heifers the reduction is considered to be approximately half this amount. Infected cows have elevated cell counts and diminished production due to tissue damage.
For example, a herd at 200,000 SCC, would be considered as doing well and yet they would be experiencing a loss of approximately 1.5 pounds/cow/ day. When the SCC rises to 400,000 the loss increases to about 3.0 pounds/cow/day and at 800,000 it is approximately 4.5 lbs/cow/day. Loss of production potential can be significant as the cell count rises to such levels.
Bonus Payments For Low Cell Count Milk
Most milk buyers have implemented some form of bonus payment plan that usually considers SCC as well as other factors. These plans are based on straightforward economic factors. If the milk, a producer provides, has more value to the processor, they benefit and are willing to share some of the increased value with the producers.
One of the reasons why there is a willingness to pay bonuses for low cell count milk relates to the relationship between the SCC and the amount of cheese that can be harvested from a pound of milk. The higher the cell count the lower the cheese yield and vice versa. High SCC milk may also produce a cheese that is of lesser quality. It is therefore in the best interest of everyone to produce milk with a low somatic cell count.
With a bonus plan in place, at 400,000 cells/ml, loss of a bonus payment of 10-20 cents per hundredweight would occur and this would amount to a significant annual loss. In certain situations such an income shortfall may cause financial problems.
Milk Keeping Quality
In addition to concerns about cheese yield is the issue of keeping quality of the milk. When the somatic cells destroy bacteria, left behind are enzymes that have been involved in the process. These enzymes are often resistant to pasteurization procedures and can cause milk fat and protein damage. This can result in serious off-flavors in milk that consumers find objectionable. It also may reduce shelf life significantly, even when milk is kept properly refrigerated.
Somatic Cell Counts-Legal Implications
The legal issue relates to the legal maximum limit for somatic cells as stated in the PMO for Grade A milk. It is currently at 750,000 cells/ml. If, for some reason a producer has problems that cause the SCC to rise to this level or greater then they will have problems keeping their Grade A permit and a number of changes will have to be implemented. With the constant emphasis on the topic such situation are much less common today than in the past but they still occur.
The second "legal" issue regarding cell count levels is related to international trade considerations. Milk and milk products are valuable food items traded amongst various parts of the world. Inevitably any item that is traded becomes subject to standards and milk is no exception. The European Union, New Zealand, Australia and a few other countries have adopted a standard for maximum allowable cell counts in their Grade A type milk of 400,000 cell/ml. Canada presently is at 500,000 while the US has an allowable legal maximum of 750,000. In the international trade arena it is likely that major milk exporters will lobby for their standard to be the international standard and may well make it difficult to compete unless that standard is met. If the US wants to be a player in the international milk export market it will likely have to debate this issue and move towards a lower upper limit similar to what may now exist in Europe. Be prepared for this eventuality and be prepared to participate in the discussion.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
thanks for the info. don't worry - no one is running around yelling "cow's blood" silly - it's the spray dried syrum of the slaughtered baby cow's blood.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Do you mean serum derived immunoglobilins?
Yes, exactly. It is blood-derived. That's what we said. If you could have made your reply a paragraph or two longer we would have all forgotten the question and thought it was from the cow teet.
Yes, exactly. It is blood-derived. That's what we said. If you could have made your reply a paragraph or two longer we would have all forgotten the question and thought it was from the cow teet.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Sooooo....the answer is "Yes, it IS from cow's blood."
But, but, but, but.
But, but, but, but.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Sooooo....the answer is "Yes, it IS from cow's blood."
But, but, but, but.
BUTT,BUTT, BUTT FUCK YOURSELF YOU METAGENICS FAGGOT HOW ABOUT YOUR BULLSHIT IN ALL YOUR PRODUCTS, OR IS IT KATKE SHIT WITH NO BLOOD IN THE STOOL.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Nice; very professional response. Shows who you are. A little defensive, maybe? Feeling like things maybe aren't such a bed or roses since you stabbed your old friends in the bacK? Not as easy to convert your accounts as you thougnt?
And for the future, TRY to be a little more professional. Or at least act like you are.
And for the future, TRY to be a little more professional. Or at least act like you are.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Keep talking back and forth Meta. While I am out replacing your awesome Ultra Meal w/Insinase. Thanks!!
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Nice; very professional response. Shows who you are. A little defensive, maybe? Feeling like things maybe aren't such a bed or roses since you stabbed your old friends in the bacK? Not as easy to convert your accounts as you thougnt?
And for the future, TRY to be a little more professional. Or at least act like you are.
Hey look at this this is the dick from metagenics on our site, hey here is an idea go back to your cafepharma site and think of something new to say on that site, oh thats right you caanot think at metagenics you have to suck the Katke cock and march around like good soliders. Metagenics old, tired and out of ideas you think insinase is the answer here is a clue the shit does not work. This site was started for the mere pleasure of Metagenics to divert the truth away from Meta site. You are sucha tool. "High my name is_____ with metagenics(who) Metagenics we are the biggest nutracutical company ever and we you ever heard of Al Gore? (why) he invented the internet and Jeff Katke invented every vitamin every made..........(SILENCE) ..do you use nutrition?...........Can I see the Doctor?..........(NO)...Can I give you this lovely yet very fake research my company did and made all the results look to be so positive that that it it will cure diabetes and make you lose weight and reduce pain and it is so much better then anything you ever had..............(silence)....Can I see the doctor?........... (NO) .......silence... THE END
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
I apologize Mr. or Mrs. Mensa. Were the two paragraphs to much for you to read or was it that you couldn't understand what the paragraphs said? First of all do you have any historical perspective here or have you been working in this industry for a few weeks now? Are you at all aware that glandulars are from pig and cow glands? Yes "cows blood". That MCHC is from Cow(Veal) bone? Are you aware that many vaccines come from serum? Are you aware that most Flora products, including yours, come from human fecal matter? Yes my friend human fecal matter. I assume you have not read the studies. Does that mean everytime a patient takes Ultra Flora Plus they are eating human shit? No that isn't what that means Einstein. It means that the source of the compound was originally fecal but the end product is free of contamination. The IgG 2000, which has published human clinical trials, is free of dairy, casein, lactose, somatic cell, "cows blood" and risk free for that matter. What you would have gathered, if you had chosen to read my last post, is that milk and milk derived immunoglobulin products (yes smarty Probioplex and Probioplex IC) have somatic cells in them. Somatic cells are where BSE and other blood pathogens are found (Just trying to help). Are you at risk when taking dairy or dairy based immunoglobulins? No. But to get 5000mg of immunoglobulins, vs 200mg and without dairy, your going to have to get them from a serum source. I hope you understand now. If not please let me know. I can direct you to a doctor who can explain it to you.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Hey man I love the response but do not give away too much to the Meta r*****s, they will run back to The Jeff's thinking they are good doggies and then the Jeff's will invent a product and say look what we did and Xymogen copied us. Meta wants us to start things on here I say since we have our site now lets use it to expand our fun and really laugh at all the metarejects.
And Serum derived IGG is the only way to go, oh thats right meta it cost alot you wont buy it, but Jeff will screw you in the ass and drain the blood from your stool and send you up to gig harbor for a slanted study and prove it is better then Xymogen and then hand the doctor a glossy picture of a terd and say this is the best ever and it will help all your patients and its a medical food.
Shit in a bottle with a silver label is still just shit in a bottle
And Serum derived IGG is the only way to go, oh thats right meta it cost alot you wont buy it, but Jeff will screw you in the ass and drain the blood from your stool and send you up to gig harbor for a slanted study and prove it is better then Xymogen and then hand the doctor a glossy picture of a terd and say this is the best ever and it will help all your patients and its a medical food.
Shit in a bottle with a silver label is still just shit in a bottle
Xymogen Sale Rep
Guest
Xymogen Sale Rep
Guest
This is great! I love this cafepharma Xymogen board. So true about Probioplex. And the Ultra Flora. It is from poop, but it does not mean it has poop. To my knowledge there is only ONE human published clinical trial on the NCFM Strain the rest have been in a dish( please anyone correct me). And there are serveral on Lacidofil and many more on Sac B.. And I might add Lacidofil is used by Merck in Germany as a probiotic. Is the NCFM Strain?
I am not here to bash the M Company. I want to make it clear that when you compete with the X, you will have to do better than to spread lies about our products. It is easy to say things you do not know, like when people thought the world was flat. You could just imagine the stupid stories people said. Xymogen has the researched products without the high mark up. SO the patients spend less, doctors make more and the X keeps on growing every month.
researched products???
1. New CoQ10 CF (reaserached and far less)
2. OncoPlex (John Hopkins over 200 studies)
3. Sac B (most used probiotic over trillion dosages)
4. ConjuLean (Yep the researched one)
5. Saloxicin (wow 2x price mark up for doctors and yet only $8 a month and of course researched)
Shall I go on? Why would we do the research ourselves when companies come to us to ask US to sell their researched based products? Just wait until April, when our next next line of products are launched! Did you say a European Pharm company is backing the X with a revolutionary product???
Did you know the average tenure for experienced knowledgable sales consultants for the X is over eight years? Why don't you count your company?
Do not get me wrong, I am not here to bash the M. They have some good products and the quality if perfect. Quit talking about the Katke. We all know them. With the money Katke makes I think anyone would want to be him.
I am ready to challenge any products out there. See you out in the field.
Happy selling against the X!!!!!
I am not here to bash the M Company. I want to make it clear that when you compete with the X, you will have to do better than to spread lies about our products. It is easy to say things you do not know, like when people thought the world was flat. You could just imagine the stupid stories people said. Xymogen has the researched products without the high mark up. SO the patients spend less, doctors make more and the X keeps on growing every month.
researched products???
1. New CoQ10 CF (reaserached and far less)
2. OncoPlex (John Hopkins over 200 studies)
3. Sac B (most used probiotic over trillion dosages)
4. ConjuLean (Yep the researched one)
5. Saloxicin (wow 2x price mark up for doctors and yet only $8 a month and of course researched)
Shall I go on? Why would we do the research ourselves when companies come to us to ask US to sell their researched based products? Just wait until April, when our next next line of products are launched! Did you say a European Pharm company is backing the X with a revolutionary product???
Did you know the average tenure for experienced knowledgable sales consultants for the X is over eight years? Why don't you count your company?
Do not get me wrong, I am not here to bash the M. They have some good products and the quality if perfect. Quit talking about the Katke. We all know them. With the money Katke makes I think anyone would want to be him.
I am ready to challenge any products out there. See you out in the field.
Happy selling against the X!!!!!
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Who would want to be Katke? are you stupid or what no one in there right mind would want to be a Katke regardless of the money. Money does not make youa better person it makes you rich. But I would rather be poor and happy then rich and a act like a Katke.
Dude stop saying so much about what Xymogen is going to do, they nwill find out soon enough and how the west coast will become a Xymogen strong hold let them find out later the sooner
Dude stop saying so much about what Xymogen is going to do, they nwill find out soon enough and how the west coast will become a Xymogen strong hold let them find out later the sooner
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Who would want to be Katke? are you stupid or what no one in there right mind would want to be a Katke regardless of the money. Money does not make youa better person it makes you rich. But I would rather be poor and happy then rich and a act like a Katke.
Dude stop saying so much about what Xymogen is going to do, they nwill find out soon enough and how the west coast will become a Xymogen strong hold let them find out later the sooner
I am just saying we do not need to put down anyone to achieve our goals of domination. Yes, money is not everything Dah!. I would NOT want to be a K. And I really do not care about west coast, only myself and what is the truth out there. We have it made in the shade regardless of what is said here.
Happy selling and taking the business!!
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Guest
are there any studies on oral Igg for AIDS
Please contact Xymogen and ask for the rep in your area.
Dr. Heilman
Guest
Dr. Heilman
Guest
I want to point out some concerns/doubts regarding this product and overall thread.
1. The ability to assimilate IgG by non-related species is quite limited. For example, if you provide a baby goat (kid), colostrum from a cow as it's only source of colostrum that baby goat is going to likely be severely immune compromised and be a likely candidate for "Floppy Kid Syndrome" . "Kids" that have nursed colostrum from a same species host rarely ever have floppy kid syndrome. The micobiologists that I have consulted with on this topic have scoffed at the notion of providing cow-based colostrum to a human consumer.
Deer to goat, goat to deer, or goat to sheep will have a much higher assimilation because of the genetic similarities. Cow to goat, cow to horse is very incompatible and on this status - I would be highly suspicious of any claims of humans being able to assimilate this bovine IgG in any significant manner - especially in an adult.
Specifically with goat dairies, the replacement of goat colostrum with colostrum from a cow source is a recipe for high morbidity and high mortality rates. This was an economic disaster on the agriculture industry in the late 80's when several large dairies were replacing their natural sourced colostrum for their neonatal stock as a means of preventing caprine arthritis encephalitis transmission and they had to develop techniques of destroying the virus while maintaining the viability of the colostrum.
2. IgG from my prior understanding is usually only utilized by an organism until the animals own immune system is successfully generating self immunity. That is why animals, including humans only produce colostrum for a period of approximately 3 days. I suppose an exception to this rule is in the severely immune compromised individual.
3. I would sure like to know the source of your cow colostrum. First of all, MOST dairies utilize this colostrum to feed their calves for the first 3 days (not a large window of opportunity). Selling this product for human consumption is a surefire way to have a higher incidence of calf loss. Dairy farmers are notorious for questionable animal husbandry standards, I should know - I've have worked directly with agri-business for over 20 years and have done hundreds of ride-alongs with large animal veterinarians and have witnessed first hand the high degree of sanitary issues that are endemic in the industry. Cows are rarely existing in the dairy environment without a snotty nose, persistent diarrhea, and extremely frequent applications of antibiotics and hormones. RBHT is a hormone that is frequently listed, however, there are many MANY others injected into each cow throughout the term of the pregnancy. Needle disposal following injection is not a common practice either. In the winter and spring, "dry-lot" raised cattle basically live in foot deep pools of liquified fecal material to the degree of being able to suck the boots - right off of your leg. Before bringing a cow into a dairy parlor - they stand the cows over sprinklers to rinse off the stagnant dripping "goo." This is why I avoid dairy products from cow sources. This is one of the many reasons (some economic, some health based) that the government has warning labels on raw-milk.
Somatic cell counts are also consistently spiked from poor disinfection practices with milk line equipment.
Why are posters on this thread attacking Ultra-Flora? This is an IgG product that is the subject matter. Ultra-Flora from Metagenics is an extremely high quality product. I have NEVER found any other brand of Acidophilis that has come anyway close to the fast rebound of reduction of abdominal distress post antibiotic therapy. You really are doing a patient/client a dis-service by discouraging this very safe and effective therapy with your nonsense presentation of "concern about it being harvested from "poo."
P.S. The Metagenics rep who initiated this thread was really WRONG to provide concern over this product through this means. Serums are not limited to be derived from a blood source, but also a milk source. Whoever it was was inviting a beating by the blood source comment mis-statement.
1. The ability to assimilate IgG by non-related species is quite limited. For example, if you provide a baby goat (kid), colostrum from a cow as it's only source of colostrum that baby goat is going to likely be severely immune compromised and be a likely candidate for "Floppy Kid Syndrome" . "Kids" that have nursed colostrum from a same species host rarely ever have floppy kid syndrome. The micobiologists that I have consulted with on this topic have scoffed at the notion of providing cow-based colostrum to a human consumer.
Deer to goat, goat to deer, or goat to sheep will have a much higher assimilation because of the genetic similarities. Cow to goat, cow to horse is very incompatible and on this status - I would be highly suspicious of any claims of humans being able to assimilate this bovine IgG in any significant manner - especially in an adult.
Specifically with goat dairies, the replacement of goat colostrum with colostrum from a cow source is a recipe for high morbidity and high mortality rates. This was an economic disaster on the agriculture industry in the late 80's when several large dairies were replacing their natural sourced colostrum for their neonatal stock as a means of preventing caprine arthritis encephalitis transmission and they had to develop techniques of destroying the virus while maintaining the viability of the colostrum.
2. IgG from my prior understanding is usually only utilized by an organism until the animals own immune system is successfully generating self immunity. That is why animals, including humans only produce colostrum for a period of approximately 3 days. I suppose an exception to this rule is in the severely immune compromised individual.
3. I would sure like to know the source of your cow colostrum. First of all, MOST dairies utilize this colostrum to feed their calves for the first 3 days (not a large window of opportunity). Selling this product for human consumption is a surefire way to have a higher incidence of calf loss. Dairy farmers are notorious for questionable animal husbandry standards, I should know - I've have worked directly with agri-business for over 20 years and have done hundreds of ride-alongs with large animal veterinarians and have witnessed first hand the high degree of sanitary issues that are endemic in the industry. Cows are rarely existing in the dairy environment without a snotty nose, persistent diarrhea, and extremely frequent applications of antibiotics and hormones. RBHT is a hormone that is frequently listed, however, there are many MANY others injected into each cow throughout the term of the pregnancy. Needle disposal following injection is not a common practice either. In the winter and spring, "dry-lot" raised cattle basically live in foot deep pools of liquified fecal material to the degree of being able to suck the boots - right off of your leg. Before bringing a cow into a dairy parlor - they stand the cows over sprinklers to rinse off the stagnant dripping "goo." This is why I avoid dairy products from cow sources. This is one of the many reasons (some economic, some health based) that the government has warning labels on raw-milk.
Somatic cell counts are also consistently spiked from poor disinfection practices with milk line equipment.
Why are posters on this thread attacking Ultra-Flora? This is an IgG product that is the subject matter. Ultra-Flora from Metagenics is an extremely high quality product. I have NEVER found any other brand of Acidophilis that has come anyway close to the fast rebound of reduction of abdominal distress post antibiotic therapy. You really are doing a patient/client a dis-service by discouraging this very safe and effective therapy with your nonsense presentation of "concern about it being harvested from "poo."
P.S. The Metagenics rep who initiated this thread was really WRONG to provide concern over this product through this means. Serums are not limited to be derived from a blood source, but also a milk source. Whoever it was was inviting a beating by the blood source comment mis-statement.
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Dr.Heliman- I think there is some misunderstanding regarding the amount of research that has been done on IgG supplementation (not colostrum). So much that I cannot post everything here. You will have to meet me half way and look at the research yourself. Please use these sources for said data.
www.proliantinc.com/health/products/ImmunoLin_FAQ.asp
Some of the research:
References Supporting the Use of Immunoglobulin in Dietary Supplements to Improve Human Health
Proliant Health Ingredients
4/12/2005
The Effect of Bovine Serum Immunoglobulin on Cholesterol Indices in Participants with Hypercholesterolemia (View Abstract)
Conrad P. Earnest, Alexander Jordan, and Eric Weaver.
4/11/2005
Effect of supplementation with multiple micronutrients (MMN) and/or bovine serum concentrate (BSC) on the growth of low-income, peri-urban Guatemalan (View Abstract)
KH Brown, MC Santizo, F Begin, B. Torun.
7/27/2004
Dietary Plasma Protein Affects the Immune Reponse of Weaned Rats Challenged with S. aureua Superantigen B1,2 (View Abstract)
Anna Perez-Bosque, et. al.
7/12/2004
Acceptability, Safety, and Digestibility of Spray-Dried Bovine Serum Added to Diets of Recovering Malnourished Children (View Abstract)
Jorge L. Lembcke, Janet M. Peerson and Kenneth H. Brown
1/1/1997
Cholesterol-lowering and blood pressure effects of immune milk (View Abstract)
Susan J. Sharpe, Gregory D. Gamble, and D. Norman Sharpe
7/20/2004
Cholesterol-lowering effect of skim milk from immunized cows in hypercholesterolemic patients (View Abstract)
Alain Golay, Jean-Marc Ferrara, Jean-Pierre Felber, and Heinz Schneider
7/20/2004
Anti-inflammatory properties of human serum IgA: induction of IL-1 receptor antagonist and Fc-R(CD89)- medicated down-regulation of tumour necrosis fa (View Abstract)
H.M. wolf, I. Hauber, H. Gulle, A. Samstag, M.B Fischer, R.U. Ahmad and M.M. Eibl
7/14/2004
Bovine colostrum: does it improve athletic performance? (View Abstract)
Jonathan D. Buckley
7/14/2004
Evaluation of animal protein supplements in diets of early-weaned pigs (View Abstract)
J.A Hansen, J.L. Nelssen, R.D. Goodband, and T.L. Weeden
7/14/2004
Plasma protein for pigs weaned at 19 to 24 days of age: effect on performance and plasma insulin-like growth factor I, growth hormone, insulin, and gl (View Abstract)
B.Z. de Rodas, K.S. Sohn, C.V. Maxwell, and L.J. Spicer
7/14/2004
Effects of bovine colostrum supplementation on serum IGF-I, IgG, hormone, and saliva IgA during training (View Abstract)
Antti Mero, Heidi Mikkulainen, Jarmo Riski, Raimo Pakkanem, Jouni Aalot, and Timo Takala
7/14/2004
The Effects of Bovine Colostrum Supplementation on Body Composition and Exercise Performance in Active Men and Women (View Abstract)
Jose Antonio, Michael S. Sanders, and Darin Van Gammeren
7/14/2004
Effect of bovine colostrum on anaerobic exercise performance and plasma insulin-like growth factor I (View Abstract)
Jonathan D. Buckley, Grant D. Brinkworth, and Marion J. Abbott
7/14/2004
The effects of thermal environment and spray-dried plasma on the acute-phase response of pigs challenged with lipopolysaccharide (View Abstract)
J. W. Frank, J. A. Carroll, G. L. Allee, and M. E. Zannelli
7/2/2004
Arginine stimulates intestinal cell migration through a focal adhesion kinase dependent mechanism (View Abstract)
J. M. Rhoads, W. Chen, J. Gookin, G. Y. Wu, Q. Fu, A. T. Blikslager, R. A. Rippe, R. A. Argenzio, W. G. Cance, E. M. Weaver, and L. H. Romer
7/2/2004
Use of spray-dried animal plasma in diets for weanling pigs (View Abstract)
Richard D. Coffey and Gary L. Cromwell
12/1/2001
The Use of Bovine Serum Protein as an Oral Support Therapy Following Coronavirus Challenge in Calves (View Abstract)
J.D. Arthington, C.A. Jaynes, H.D. Tyler, S. Kaplis and J.D. Quigley, III
5/1/2002
Oral Bovine Serum Concentrate Improves Cryptosporidial Enteritis in Calves (View Abstract)
Hunt, E. et al.
11/3/2002
Dietary Plasma Protein Is Used More Efficiently than Extruded Soy Protein for Lean Tissue Growth in Early-Weaned Pigs (View Abstract)
Ruhong Jiang, Xiaoyan Chang, Barbara Stoll, Kenneth J. Ellis, Roman J. Shypallo, Eric Weaver, Joy Campbell and Douglas G. Burrin
3/1/2000
Bioactive molecules in milk and their role in health and disease: The role of transforming growth factor-B
A. Donnet-Hughes, N. Duc, P. Servant, K. Vidal and EJ Schiffrin
1/1/2000
Dietary Plasma Protein Reduces Small Intestinal Growth and Lamina Propria Cell Density in Early Weaned Pigs (View Abstract)
Ruhoong Jiang, Xiaoyan Chang, Barbara Stoll, Ming Z. Fan, John Arthington, Eric Weaver, Joy Campbell and Douglas G. Burrin
1/1/2000
Effects of Spray-Dried Porcine Plasma Protein on Growth Traits and Nitrogen and Energy Balance in Mice (View Abstract)
J.E. Thomson, E.E. Jones, and E.J. Eisen
4/6/1997
N-Labeled Immunoglobulins from Bovine Colostrum Are Partially Resistant to Digestion in Human Intestine (View Abstract)
N. Roos, S. Mahe, R. Benamouzig, H. Sick, J. Rautureau and D. Tome
11/1/1995
www.proliantinc.com/health/products/ImmunoLin_FAQ.asp
Some of the research:
References Supporting the Use of Immunoglobulin in Dietary Supplements to Improve Human Health
Proliant Health Ingredients
4/12/2005
The Effect of Bovine Serum Immunoglobulin on Cholesterol Indices in Participants with Hypercholesterolemia (View Abstract)
Conrad P. Earnest, Alexander Jordan, and Eric Weaver.
4/11/2005
Effect of supplementation with multiple micronutrients (MMN) and/or bovine serum concentrate (BSC) on the growth of low-income, peri-urban Guatemalan (View Abstract)
KH Brown, MC Santizo, F Begin, B. Torun.
7/27/2004
Dietary Plasma Protein Affects the Immune Reponse of Weaned Rats Challenged with S. aureua Superantigen B1,2 (View Abstract)
Anna Perez-Bosque, et. al.
7/12/2004
Acceptability, Safety, and Digestibility of Spray-Dried Bovine Serum Added to Diets of Recovering Malnourished Children (View Abstract)
Jorge L. Lembcke, Janet M. Peerson and Kenneth H. Brown
1/1/1997
Cholesterol-lowering and blood pressure effects of immune milk (View Abstract)
Susan J. Sharpe, Gregory D. Gamble, and D. Norman Sharpe
7/20/2004
Cholesterol-lowering effect of skim milk from immunized cows in hypercholesterolemic patients (View Abstract)
Alain Golay, Jean-Marc Ferrara, Jean-Pierre Felber, and Heinz Schneider
7/20/2004
Anti-inflammatory properties of human serum IgA: induction of IL-1 receptor antagonist and Fc-R(CD89)- medicated down-regulation of tumour necrosis fa (View Abstract)
H.M. wolf, I. Hauber, H. Gulle, A. Samstag, M.B Fischer, R.U. Ahmad and M.M. Eibl
7/14/2004
Bovine colostrum: does it improve athletic performance? (View Abstract)
Jonathan D. Buckley
7/14/2004
Evaluation of animal protein supplements in diets of early-weaned pigs (View Abstract)
J.A Hansen, J.L. Nelssen, R.D. Goodband, and T.L. Weeden
7/14/2004
Plasma protein for pigs weaned at 19 to 24 days of age: effect on performance and plasma insulin-like growth factor I, growth hormone, insulin, and gl (View Abstract)
B.Z. de Rodas, K.S. Sohn, C.V. Maxwell, and L.J. Spicer
7/14/2004
Effects of bovine colostrum supplementation on serum IGF-I, IgG, hormone, and saliva IgA during training (View Abstract)
Antti Mero, Heidi Mikkulainen, Jarmo Riski, Raimo Pakkanem, Jouni Aalot, and Timo Takala
7/14/2004
The Effects of Bovine Colostrum Supplementation on Body Composition and Exercise Performance in Active Men and Women (View Abstract)
Jose Antonio, Michael S. Sanders, and Darin Van Gammeren
7/14/2004
Effect of bovine colostrum on anaerobic exercise performance and plasma insulin-like growth factor I (View Abstract)
Jonathan D. Buckley, Grant D. Brinkworth, and Marion J. Abbott
7/14/2004
The effects of thermal environment and spray-dried plasma on the acute-phase response of pigs challenged with lipopolysaccharide (View Abstract)
J. W. Frank, J. A. Carroll, G. L. Allee, and M. E. Zannelli
7/2/2004
Arginine stimulates intestinal cell migration through a focal adhesion kinase dependent mechanism (View Abstract)
J. M. Rhoads, W. Chen, J. Gookin, G. Y. Wu, Q. Fu, A. T. Blikslager, R. A. Rippe, R. A. Argenzio, W. G. Cance, E. M. Weaver, and L. H. Romer
7/2/2004
Use of spray-dried animal plasma in diets for weanling pigs (View Abstract)
Richard D. Coffey and Gary L. Cromwell
12/1/2001
The Use of Bovine Serum Protein as an Oral Support Therapy Following Coronavirus Challenge in Calves (View Abstract)
J.D. Arthington, C.A. Jaynes, H.D. Tyler, S. Kaplis and J.D. Quigley, III
5/1/2002
Oral Bovine Serum Concentrate Improves Cryptosporidial Enteritis in Calves (View Abstract)
Hunt, E. et al.
11/3/2002
Dietary Plasma Protein Is Used More Efficiently than Extruded Soy Protein for Lean Tissue Growth in Early-Weaned Pigs (View Abstract)
Ruhong Jiang, Xiaoyan Chang, Barbara Stoll, Kenneth J. Ellis, Roman J. Shypallo, Eric Weaver, Joy Campbell and Douglas G. Burrin
3/1/2000
Bioactive molecules in milk and their role in health and disease: The role of transforming growth factor-B
A. Donnet-Hughes, N. Duc, P. Servant, K. Vidal and EJ Schiffrin
1/1/2000
Dietary Plasma Protein Reduces Small Intestinal Growth and Lamina Propria Cell Density in Early Weaned Pigs (View Abstract)
Ruhoong Jiang, Xiaoyan Chang, Barbara Stoll, Ming Z. Fan, John Arthington, Eric Weaver, Joy Campbell and Douglas G. Burrin
1/1/2000
Effects of Spray-Dried Porcine Plasma Protein on Growth Traits and Nitrogen and Energy Balance in Mice (View Abstract)
J.E. Thomson, E.E. Jones, and E.J. Eisen
4/6/1997
N-Labeled Immunoglobulins from Bovine Colostrum Are Partially Resistant to Digestion in Human Intestine (View Abstract)
N. Roos, S. Mahe, R. Benamouzig, H. Sick, J. Rautureau and D. Tome
11/1/1995
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Ultra-Flora from Metagenics is an extremely high quality product. I have NEVER found any other brand of Acidophilis that has come anyway close to the fast rebound of reduction of abdominal distress post antibiotic therapy. You really are doing a patient/client a dis-service by discouraging this very safe and effective therapy with your nonsense presentation of "concern about it being harvested from "poo."
As the above being stated by the misguided Dr. CAN YOU HAVE METAGENICS GIVE YOU AND THEN TO ME STUDIES ON THE NCFM strain other then use in foods. And can you show me the studies of actual growth in the intestine from using Ultraflora, I am sure you are well versed in Metagnics formulas and you seem very sincere. However you almpost sound like an infomercial for metagenics. Or at the very least you have drank some of the kool aid we all drank at one time(please take no offense to that we all believed the metagenics story) that being said, are you joking when you doubt Igg's from cow's efficacy. Can we please send you the research on this. I do not want to offend you, but I am really shocked by your post.
As the above being stated by the misguided Dr. CAN YOU HAVE METAGENICS GIVE YOU AND THEN TO ME STUDIES ON THE NCFM strain other then use in foods. And can you show me the studies of actual growth in the intestine from using Ultraflora, I am sure you are well versed in Metagnics formulas and you seem very sincere. However you almpost sound like an infomercial for metagenics. Or at the very least you have drank some of the kool aid we all drank at one time(please take no offense to that we all believed the metagenics story) that being said, are you joking when you doubt Igg's from cow's efficacy. Can we please send you the research on this. I do not want to offend you, but I am really shocked by your post.
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
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Ultra-Flora from Metagenics is an extremely high quality product. I have NEVER found any other brand of Acidophilis that has come anyway close to the fast rebound of reduction of abdominal distress post antibiotic therapy. You really are doing a patient/client a dis-service by discouraging this very safe and effective therapy with your nonsense presentation of "concern about it being harvested from "poo."
As the above being stated by the misguided Dr. CAN YOU HAVE METAGENICS GIVE YOU AND THEN TO ME STUDIES ON THE NCFM strain other then use in foods. And can you show me the studies of actual growth in the intestine from using Ultraflora, I am sure you are well versed in Metagnics formulas and you seem very sincere. However you almpost sound like an infomercial for metagenics. Or at the very least you have drank some of the kool aid we all drank at one time(please take no offense to that we all believed the metagenics story) that being said, are you joking when you doubt Igg's from cow's efficacy. Can we please send you the research on this. I do not want to offend you, but I am really shocked by your post.
Am I joking when I doubt IgG from cows: Did I not just present for you cross-species incompatability in my last post??? See if you can understand it presented this way:
-->The five human isotypes, IgA, IgD, IgG, IgE and IgM are found in all humans and a result, injection of human IgG into another human would not generate antibodies directed against the structural features (determinants) that define the IgG isotype. However, injection of human IgG into a rabbit would generate antibodies directed against those same structural features.
NCFM acidophilis is prescribed to my patients with confidence. I prescribe 1 capsule BID followed by either a cup of yoghurt or with the recommended dosage of Endefen. The average time span from treatment administration to significant reduction on GI symptoms is 2 days (one case took 11), but they continue the therapy for one-month (2 cases I recommended 1 tablet once daily for 2 months only because of the long-term duration of antibiotics that they were prescribed. Out of the many cases of NCFM that I have acquired from Metagenics I can count only ONE patient that was unsatisfied with the product.
She claimed a rash.
The reason why I prescribe the yoghurt or endefen is to supply a nutrient supply that encourages the re-population of friendly bacteria. I don't scope the patients to measure re-population since with the long-term resolution of symptoms I can reasonably assume that the re-population has occurred.
FYI - so what if the studies on NCFM were in a food source - the NCFM I get from Metagenics is taken orally so the route of administration is the same. As long as the NCFM has an appropriate food supply, and there is no antibiotics in the system, probiotics will regenerate rapidly.
I'm not drinking Kool-Aid, if you observed my practice style, record keeping and patient satisfaction forms, you would quickly retract your claim of me being mis-guided, but sincere. I have provided first hand evidence and examples with actual patients and other species that I am sure you are not informed regarding.
How can you request for me to send you studies - whoever you are - I seem to be the only poster on this board with the confidence to post my name.