Feel like everything I do is wrong

[anonymous]

Hey y'all. I'm coming up on two years in my first pharma job and still feel like I have no clue what I'm doing and have a few questions... sorry for the lengthy post and thanks in advance.

1. My manager isn't bad when he's not with us, very hands off; but he rides with us two days in a row every 4-5 weeks from 9:00-3:00 and 9:00-1:00 respectively. We all have a hard time finding enough places to take him due to access issues to fill this kind of time. I've heard the stories of managers that come for lunch and maybe one other call and then leave. Are those managers common or far and few between? Trying to gauge how picky I should be about finding a "good" manager for my next job if there's just not that many of them. Should I just be happy he's not a nightmare 90% of the time and suck it up when it comes to ride alongs?

2. Calls: How many calls per day would you say are a true, by the definition interaction? If you take away sending the Ipad back for a signature, I might get 1-2 and usually that's with a lunch. Plenty of days with 0. I know faking calls is how we survive, but some reps claim they get 5-7 real interactions every day. Are they full of shit or am I really bad at this job?

3. How often do you put calls in from the parking lot? One of my favorite phrases this site has taught me is FIDO, F It and Drive Off. I sell a market leader that's been out for a decade. So I don't really see the point in going into an office that doesn't see reps just to drop off literature with 10 year old information on it. Some days I'll wear street clothes and just drive around to offices if I know I'm not going in. The slippery slope then becomes putting them in at home. Why bother to drive there if I'm not going to go in.. I worry about GPS tracking, that sort of thing. How often do y'all put calls in from the house or anywhere else?

4. Lunches: Do these feel like a waste of time to anyone else? I rarely talk product, and when I do it doesn't seem to make a difference in the business. I feel like I'm only doing lunches just so I have an expense report to do.

5. What are everyone's normal working hours? I leave my house around 9:30 at the earliest usually and have a hard time stretching my day to 1:00 sometimes. My territory is pretty small and most of my offices take the ipad or don't see reps. I spend alot of time doom scrolling in office parking lots just trying to extend my day enough so I'm working at least 10-2.

6. I work for a contract company. How different is working for a manufacturer compared to the picture I've kinda painted about my job? I see manufacturer reps pull into offices that I know for a fact don't see reps, they spend 15 minutes pre call planning, and they take in an arm full of literature. I assume they'll be back out in under 2 minutes and they'll be in there for 15. What they hell are they doing in there, giving a full detail to the receptionist?

 

[anonymous]

Find another job and career. Not trying to be rude but it doesn’t get much better

 

[anonymous]

Hey y'all. I'm coming up on two years in my first pharma job and still feel like I have no clue what I'm doing and have a few questions... sorry for the lengthy post and thanks in advance.

1. My manager isn't bad when he's not with us, very hands off; but he rides with us two days in a row every 4-5 weeks from 9:00-3:00 and 9:00-1:00 respectively. We all have a hard time finding enough places to take him due to access issues to fill this kind of time. I've heard the stories of managers that come for lunch and maybe one other call and then leave. Are those managers common or far and few between? Trying to gauge how picky I should be about finding a "good" manager for my next job if there's just not that many of them. Should I just be happy he's not a nightmare 90% of the time and suck it up when it comes to ride alongs?

2. Calls: How many calls per day would you say are a true, by the definition interaction? If you take away sending the Ipad back for a signature, I might get 1-2 and usually that's with a lunch. Plenty of days with 0. I know faking calls is how we survive, but some reps claim they get 5-7 real interactions every day. Are they full of shit or am I really bad at this job?

3. How often do you put calls in from the parking lot? One of my favorite phrases this site has taught me is FIDO, F It and Drive Off. I sell a market leader that's been out for a decade. So I don't really see the point in going into an office that doesn't see reps just to drop off literature with 10 year old information on it. Some days I'll wear street clothes and just drive around to offices if I know I'm not going in. The slippery slope then becomes putting them in at home. Why bother to drive there if I'm not going to go in.. I worry about GPS tracking, that sort of thing. How often do y'all put calls in from the house or anywhere else?

4. Lunches: Do these feel like a waste of time to anyone else? I rarely talk product, and when I do it doesn't seem to make a difference in the business. I feel like I'm only doing lunches just so I have an expense report to do.

5. What are everyone's normal working hours? I leave my house around 9:30 at the earliest usually and have a hard time stretching my day to 1:00 sometimes. My territory is pretty small and most of my offices take the ipad or don't see reps. I spend alot of time doom scrolling in office parking lots just trying to extend my day enough so I'm working at least 10-2.

6. I work for a contract company. How different is working for a manufacturer compared to the picture I've kinda painted about my job? I see manufacturer reps pull into offices that I know for a fact don't see reps, they spend 15 minutes pre call planning, and they take in an arm full of literature. I assume they'll be back out in under 2 minutes and they'll be in there for 15. What they hell are they doing in there, giving a full detail to the receptionist?

What you are describing is typical for the industry. It is the job and the truth is what we do everyday is a sham. It doesn't get better, only worse, because you will find that you never leave the house and the lunches are your only proof of actually going out in the field. If it is already wearing on your soul, definitely find another sales job. The only reason to stay in this industry is the pay and benefits, but it does pay a heavy price on your soul and overtime your appearance and habits. I know a ton of reps who have done pharma for years that are overweight, alcoholic, or drug addicts. Whatever you internalize in this job bubbles up over time in an outward way, so if that doesn't sound like the future you want, find something else. Working directly for a pharma company or doing contract work is pretty much the same grind, same dysfunctional leaders, same competitive colleagues, same disinterested customers. If I had to start all over today, I wouldn't go into this industry. Just my thoughts from a rep who has done this way too long.

 

[anonymous]

What you are describing is typical for the industry. It is the job and the truth is what we do everyday is a sham. It doesn't get better, only worse, because you will find that you never leave the house and the lunches are your only proof of actually going out in the field. If it is already wearing on your soul, definitely find another sales job. The only reason to stay in this industry is the pay and benefits, but it does pay a heavy price on your soul and overtime your appearance and habits. I know a ton of reps who have done pharma for years that are overweight, alcoholic, or drug addicts. Whatever you internalize in this job bubbles up over time in an outward way, so if that doesn't sound like the future you want, find something else. Working directly for a pharma company or doing contract work is pretty much the same grind, same dysfunctional leaders, same competitive colleagues, same disinterested customers. If I had to start all over today, I wouldn't go into this industry. Just my thoughts from a rep who has done this way too long.

Thank you for the reply. I never thought that in just 2 years it would take such a toll, but here we are. My work ethic has suffered. I tried (unsuccessfully) to get into device before taking this job. I was so ready for the work that comes with a device job and to take that work ethic and apply it to pharma. Now, just the idea of a device schedule makes me nauseous lol. Friends and family that know how hard I’ve worked in the past tell me I’m a hard worker and I’ll do great, but I feel like a fraud now. If there’s something I don’t want to do, such as a lunch with a difficult doctor, I simply don’t, and there’s zero consequences. Leaving the house has gotten tougher, but so has leaving the industry. I make pretty decent money for the least amount of work I’ve ever done and have time for family and anything else I want to do. Hard to leave that. I realize I should be grateful to have the free time (and benefits) I do and so many people would kill for that, but I feel so unproductive. Although it does seem like this industry impacts a lot of people the same way, it still seems like there’s an awful lot of reps that don’t feel this way. Putting in full/close to full days, not feeling unmotivated. I’d like some of whatever they’re on.

 

[anonymous]

Thank you for the reply. I never thought that in just 2 years it would take such a toll, but here we are. My work ethic has suffered. I tried (unsuccessfully) to get into device before taking this job. I was so ready for the work that comes with a device job and to take that work ethic and apply it to pharma. Now, just the idea of a device schedule makes me nauseous lol. Friends and family that know how hard I’ve worked in the past tell me I’m a hard worker and I’ll do great, but I feel like a fraud now. If there’s something I don’t want to do, such as a lunch with a difficult doctor, I simply don’t, and there’s zero consequences. Leaving the house has gotten tougher, but so has leaving the industry. I make pretty decent money for the least amount of work I’ve ever done and have time for family and anything else I want to do. Hard to leave that. I realize I should be grateful to have the free time (and benefits) I do and so many people would kill for that, but I feel so unproductive. Although it does seem like this industry impacts a lot of people the same way, it still seems like there’s an awful lot of reps that don’t feel this way. Putting in full/close to full days, not feeling unmotivated. I’d like some of whatever they’re on.

Most reps feel this way and the general feeling is that the money is good, benefits are solid, and it is part-time work for full-time pay. The only way to really morally survive in this job is to do something for yourself on the side. That either needs to be a fully developed hobby or even build up another career while doing this one during the day. The feelings you have now will only get more pronounced if you don't figure out how to compartmentalize the daily crap and have a "side gig." There are definitely better jobs out there that pay well and don't impact your moral compass, but this doesn't have to take up every hour of your working day. Figure out something else you can also do, and maybe someday you can stop being part of this industry and do something better for yourself.

 

[anonymous]

Most reps feel this way and the general feeling is that the money is good, benefits are solid, and it is part-time work for full-time pay. The only way to really morally survive in this job is to do something for yourself on the side. That either needs to be a fully developed hobby or even build up another career while doing this one during the day. The feelings you have now will only get more pronounced if you don't figure out how to compartmentalize the daily crap and have a "side gig." There are definitely better jobs out there that pay well and don't impact your moral compass, but this doesn't have to take up every hour of your working day. Figure out something else you can also do, and maybe someday you can stop being part of this industry and do something better for yourself.

You’re the man (or woman). Thank you for the advice. I love the idea of starting something for myself on the side.

 

[anonymous]

Hey y'all. I'm coming up on two years in my first pharma job and still feel like I have no clue what I'm doing and have a few questions... sorry for the lengthy post and thanks in advance.

1. My manager isn't bad when he's not with us, very hands off; but he rides with us two days in a row every 4-5 weeks from 9:00-3:00 and 9:00-1:00 respectively. We all have a hard time finding enough places to take him due to access issues to fill this kind of time. I've heard the stories of managers that come for lunch and maybe one other call and then leave. Are those managers common or far and few between? Trying to gauge how picky I should be about finding a "good" manager for my next job if there's just not that many of them. Should I just be happy he's not a nightmare 90% of the time and suck it up when it comes to ride alongs?

2. Calls: How many calls per day would you say are a true, by the definition interaction? If you take away sending the Ipad back for a signature, I might get 1-2 and usually that's with a lunch. Plenty of days with 0. I know faking calls is how we survive, but some reps claim they get 5-7 real interactions every day. Are they full of shit or am I really bad at this job?

3. How often do you put calls in from the parking lot? One of my favorite phrases this site has taught me is FIDO, F It and Drive Off. I sell a market leader that's been out for a decade. So I don't really see the point in going into an office that doesn't see reps just to drop off literature with 10 year old information on it. Some days I'll wear street clothes and just drive around to offices if I know I'm not going in. The slippery slope then becomes putting them in at home. Why bother to drive there if I'm not going to go in.. I worry about GPS tracking, that sort of thing. How often do y'all put calls in from the house or anywhere else?

4. Lunches: Do these feel like a waste of time to anyone else? I rarely talk product, and when I do it doesn't seem to make a difference in the business. I feel like I'm only doing lunches just so I have an expense report to do.

5. What are everyone's normal working hours? I leave my house around 9:30 at the earliest usually and have a hard time stretching my day to 1:00 sometimes. My territory is pretty small and most of my offices take the ipad or don't see reps. I spend alot of time doom scrolling in office parking lots just trying to extend my day enough so I'm working at least 10-2.

6. I work for a contract company. How different is working for a manufacturer compared to the picture I've kinda painted about my job? I see manufacturer reps pull into offices that I know for a fact don't see reps, they spend 15 minutes pre call planning, and they take in an arm full of literature. I assume they'll be back out in under 2 minutes and they'll be in there for 15. What the hell are they doing in there, giving a full detail to the receptionist?

1. It’s common for experienced pharma DMs and ones with the company a while to do once a month ride alongs or peace out early. They know how this shit works. My boss is like that. He’s late 50s. Young and/or new managers are usually kool aid drinking, neurotics who are up their reps asses. They wanna make a name. Hence usually, not always. Best bet is avoid DMs with little mgmt experience or haven’t been with the company a while


2. Full of shit. Most calls are fake by definition. That’s why orgs hate when reps ask what the definition of a call is. Your fellow reps know, your boss knows, your boss’s boss knows most of your calls are fudged. Frequency of real calls (talking to hcp) varies by territory access. Don’t ask, don’t tell. Stay looking good on paper. Ever wonder why your DM never asks you to take them to a specific customer?

3. I put my calls in when I get home. Fake and real. My company uses Veeva CRM so don’t need to log them in right away. I’m at a large pharma company. No one has given me a problem

4. Most lunches are a waste of time and money for veteran drugs. Also depends what you sell. Docs only care for new data or indications and new drugs (understandably). The fat ass office staff just wants to chow down on food. Lunches are more about marketing

5. Depends on the day. Usually 9:30/10 to 3:30. Where I am and general access

6. Never worked contract, only manufacturer. Can’t share too much there but what I’ve heard is reps report to the DM for the manufacturer who contracted AND the actual contract org? 2 DMs sounds terrible. There may be more job security with manufacturer? And reps dropping off literature at no-sees? Waste of time.

I’m a 29 year old woman, by the way. Colleagues I was close with in the same age bracket know the job is bullshit. We realized rather quickly. Been doing this 4 years. Just don’t be like some of the older reps who get their panties in a bunch and take the job too seriously.

 

[anonymous]

1. It’s common for experienced pharma DMs and ones with the company a while to do once a month ride alongs or peace out early. They know how this shit works. My boss is like that. He’s late 50s. Young and/or new managers are usually kool aid drinking, neurotics who are up their reps asses. They wanna make a name. Hence usually, not always. Best bet is avoid DMs with little mgmt experience or haven’t been with the company a while


2. Full of shit. Most calls are fake by definition. That’s why orgs hate when reps ask what the definition of a call is. Your fellow reps know, your boss knows, your boss’s boss knows most of your calls are fudged. Frequency of real calls (talking to hcp) varies by territory access. Don’t ask, don’t tell. Stay looking good on paper. Ever wonder why your DM never asks you to take them to a specific customer?

3. I put my calls in when I get home. Fake and real. My company uses Veeva CRM so don’t need to log them in right away. I’m at a large pharma company. No one has given me a problem

4. Most lunches are a waste of time and money for veteran drugs. Also depends what you sell. Docs only care for new data or indications and new drugs (understandably). The fat ass office staff just wants to chow down on food. Lunches are more about marketing

5. Depends on the day. Usually 9:30/10 to 3:30. Where I am and general access

6. Never worked contract, only manufacturer. Can’t share too much there but what I’ve heard is reps report to the DM for the manufacturer who contracted AND the actual contract org? 2 DMs sounds terrible. There may be more job security with manufacturer? And reps dropping off literature at no-sees? Waste of time.

I’m a 29 year old woman, by the way. Colleagues I was close with in the same age bracket know the job is bullshit. We realized rather quickly. Been doing this 4 years. Just don’t be like some of the older reps who get their panties in a bunch and take the job too seriously.

Thanks for the reply, makes me feel less crazy. My manager was a rep for 5 years, a manager at one company for 25 years, and now a manager at my company for 3 or so years. Spends a lot of time kissing his bosses asses. Wants to see total office calls, thinks talking to the MA will help get scripts. I’d rather he come to 2-3 calls and get out of my hair. Not sure if he is this way because he’s still too new to the company or too far removed from what it’s like to be a rep. 3 of our 10 reps just left at the same time for other opportunities and my manager won’t budge at all about being in the field 4 days a week. Probably going to have him twice a week every 3 weeks for a while.

We also use Veeva and my manager (when he’s with us) has a panic attack if the call isn’t put in before my ass hits the seat of my car. When I’m not with him I just kinda put them in whenever. Doesn’t seem like anyone is looking too close, but I still wonder IF someone will look.

Only have to report to my contract manager fortunately, but know plenty of other contracts report to both. No thanks.

29 years old as well and first pharma gig. Know some senior reps that take PTO for 4:30pm personal doctors appts. These types drive me crazy. My team mostly realizes it’s bullshit.

 

[anonymous]

Thanks for the reply, makes me feel less crazy. My manager was a rep for 5 years, a manager at one company for 25 years, and now a manager at my company for 3 or so years. Spends a lot of time kissing his bosses asses. Wants to see total office calls, thinks talking to the MA will help get scripts. I’d rather he come to 2-3 calls and get out of my hair. Not sure if he is this way because he’s still too new to the company or too far removed from what it’s like to be a rep. 3 of our 10 reps just left at the same time for other opportunities and my manager won’t budge at all about being in the field 4 days a week. Probably going to have him twice a week every 3 weeks for a while.

We also use Veeva and my manager (when he’s with us) has a panic attack if the call isn’t put in before my ass hits the seat of my car. When I’m not with him I just kinda put them in whenever. Doesn’t seem like anyone is looking too close, but I still wonder IF someone will look.

Only have to report to my contract manager fortunately, but know plenty of other contracts report to both. No thanks.

29 years old as well and first pharma gig. Know some senior reps that take PTO for 4:30pm personal doctors appts. These types drive me crazy. My team mostly realizes it’s bullshit.

I’m the previous poster you quoted..

2 field ride days a month seems like a lot. It’s common for just 1 ride every 1-2 months. A lot of people are covering their asses in this job. My guess is your boss wants to be perceived as impactful and busy. His experience being a rep in the 90s is a 180 degree difference from us. He might be a mix of out-of-touch and uptight.

It’s possible he came from a psychopathic company that babied reps and tracked them nonstop. Working in that environment will do a number on you mentally.

The total office call sometimes is useful. Usually not. Only if the staff actually talks about the drug with patients. Some MAs and RNs do in my speciality.

The job itself is barely real, but the golden handcuffs are absolutely real. What the rep job provides us is far above what it’s worth and its effectiveness. It’s hard to leave. Besides benefits, we’re tied to the same territories working with the same drugs years on end. What more can we say to these offices? And just the offices we even get access to.

Most people in the industry know it’s a facade. A lot of higher ups were reps at some point. You cannot get through the day without lying just a little at a minimum. I’ll never understand why pharma companies let it continue on