Parietex Mesh

[Anonymous]

Covidien reps...below is a list of FACTS ascertained through a variety of sources. I am interested to hear your responses to these facts, specifically with regards to how they apply to your long term growth strategy.

Fact1: Polyester has been proven through multiple studies to be more infection prone than polypropylene (Klausterhaufen, Amid, Leber).

Fact2: Covidien has applied for 510k for a polypropylene version of parietex (essentially validating the previous fact)..For those of you who fall into the "fact 3" category, this is essentially asking the FDA's permission to sell a product.

Fact3: Covidien is hiring (in certain markets) reps directly out of college with no real world experience, let alone sales acumen.

Fact4: Surgeons in the hernia mesh market are accustomed to dealing with infections and adhesions as mesh issues, not death (as referenced in fact 5)

Fact5: Last week a surgeon (I won't mention where because it could get back to me) had a patient die due to fistula formation to a PCO3020. It is listed on the FDA Maude database as of today.

 

[Anonymous]

Did the surgeon just report this incident? I just checked the database and did not see a mention of death. Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

It was reported yesterday, I helped him do it in his office. I'm not sure how long it takes to post.

 

[Anonymous]

That's a load of crap! Death mesh...grow up! Parietex is the best that’s out there!

We all know that fistulas can happen with any mesh BUT are less likely to happen with a ptx mesh than with a polypro or gtx. There will always be occasional complications in medicine and many factors that can be correlated with these. To fault a mesh, any mesh is quite a stretch…maybe you should go back to school …let us all know when you develop something that will always be 100% perfect because it doesn’t exist…

 

[Anonymous]

Fact 1 Incorrect. If you are going to come on this board and have a discussion, the first thing you want to do is have your facts straight regarding the product you're attacking. You talk about higher infection rates with polyester, (Ethicon/Mersilene) then infer Parietex falls into that category. Do you know of a single human study done with Parietex that shows this mythical, higher rate of infection? Didn't think so.

Did you think we would take you seriously with wrong information?

The rest of your facts are too reckless and silly to bother with, but I will address Parietene. I had no knowledge we were trying to gain approval, but if/when we do, the rest of the market is ours. There won't be much to say against the competitor who has the best of both worlds. It's called keeping your pipeline full and Covidien is doing just that, and not just with Parietene.

Good luck to you!

 

[Anonymous]

Parietex has no data to show that their weave is any different than that of Mersilene....both products are multi-filament. Multi-filament products do not cause infection but, if the product does get infected, it will harbor the infection just like ePTFE. Do not claim that Parietex has data claiming it has really low infection rates because ePTFE products can show the same data and, either way, the product will need to be removed. Hopefully, you also recognize that the majority of these studies are garbage because they are not indicative of what happens in the real world to a real-life community surgeon.

Additionally, Parietex probably has some of the worst handling properties in the lap ventral market. The mesh flops around like a piece of tissue paper and, if you use too much pressure with a grasper or tacker, then you can poke a hole right through that collagen barrier.

Finally, if the porcine collagen barrier is so great, why dont yall have a product to compete with Sepraflim and Interceed?

Now, I am not saying that Proceed or Dualmesh or Composix products are the true answer to hernia repair but neither is Parietex. It is just a fad like Proceed was a few years ago and look at the long-term problems surgeons are not having with Proceed.

 

[Anonymous]

Parietene is already available in Europe. The product was originally created to appease the German medical community. Due to overwhelming polyester related infections and German clinical data, a polypropylene product was created to capture market in the German market.

 

[Anonymous]

Fact- thanks for giving us your favorite five talking points- bullshit or otherwise. I will continue kicking Bards ass now.

PS- My docs love Parietex mesh. They shower in that shit.

 

[Anonymous]

Parietex has no data to show that their weave is any different than that of Mersilene....both products are multi-filament. Multi-filament products do not cause infection but, if the product does get infected, it will harbor the infection just like ePTFE. Do not claim that Parietex has data claiming it has really low infection rates because ePTFE products can show the same data and, either way, the product will need to be removed. Hopefully, you also recognize that the majority of these studies are garbage because they are not indicative of what happens in the real world to a real-life community surgeon.

Additionally, Parietex probably has some of the worst handling properties in the lap ventral market. The mesh flops around like a piece of tissue paper and, if you use too much pressure with a grasper or tacker, then you can poke a hole right through that collagen barrier.

Finally, if the porcine collagen barrier is so great, why dont yall have a product to compete with Sepraflim and Interceed?

Now, I am not saying that Proceed or Dualmesh or Composix products are the true answer to hernia repair but neither is Parietex. It is just a fad like Proceed was a few years ago and look at the long-term problems surgeons are not having with Proceed.

All of this is your jaded opinion. I see nothing in your babling that is indeed, "Fact", as you stated before.

What major acct did you lose recently to cause you to come cry on a chat board? Get over it, even though I'm a Covidien rep, there is still the reality that we're talking about mesh here. It's not the cure for AIDS.

Btw, we DO have data showing low rates of infection. Give me your address and I'll send them to you. And Parietex is the answer for synthetic hernia repair, go ask one of our many supporters.

 

[Anonymous]

Additionally, Parietex probably has some of the worst handling properties in the lap ventral market. The mesh flops around like a piece of tissue paper and, if you use too much pressure with a grasper or tacker, then you can poke a hole right through that collagen barrier.

As for the worst handling properties, its all dependent on surgeon preference.
Would you rather have a raincoat or a piece of plastic in your abdomen than a softer piece of mesh, that will not turn into a big fibrotic potato chip?

 

[Anonymous]

O.P. nice questions...... kind of sums up the issues faced by Tyco suture reps right now.

One of my Dr.'s just removed a piece of parietex from a patients bowel. He is concerned she is not going to make it. It will only take a few more of these before dr's begin to realize that polyester and pig collagen is not the answer.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

O.P. nice questions...... kind of sums up the issues faced by Tyco suture reps right now.

One of my Dr.'s just removed a piece of parietex from a patients bowel. He is concerned she is not going to make it. It will only take a few more of these before dr's begin to realize that polyester and pig collagen is not the answer.

Lol. You are so confident. well, I guess we should all just quit now before they come to that conclusion. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Fact3: Covidien is hiring (in certain markets) reps directly out of college with no real world experience, let alone sales acumen.


We are hiring MBA's from the Ivy League and highly competitive universities. In accordance with our standard hiring practices, these candidates must have a minimum GPA of 3.6 to be considered. If hired, they will function as administrative assistants for various depts in the corp office and stay in those same positions for a minimum of 2 years. We recruit and develop the best talent. If that bothers you, submit a resume.

 

[Anonymous]

Fact: Bard is scared shitless that we are gaining market share. I personally have converted two hospitals in less than a year. Im not drinking company Kool Aid, I think bard has good mesh, just dont bash ours because you guys dont know how to sell or keep business.

Fact: Every hospital in my area thinks the Bard rep is a sleazy guy who uses "contract" to grow his business.

Fact: Bard reps DO NOT know how to sell the benefits of their own product, just how to bash ours. I have never sold any product by bashing the competition.

In the end we are all just doing our jobs, i'm just saying, do it with a little dignity. Both meshes work, just like both tackers tack.

 

[Anonymous]

FACT: Regardless of how Davol grows their business, they still grow.

FACT: No patient has ever developed a fistula through ePTFE into polypropylene.

FACT: Several patients, as is currently displayed via the Maude database, have fistualized through pig collagen into Polyester.

FACT: Davol reps make over 200k, and you are lucky to make 100. Great job converting 2 hospitals in a year.

 

[Anonymous]

My ass Davol reps make 200K a year. And Dick, I have 10 accounts since Im not even a hernia rep, so 2 out of 10 hospitals ain't bad.

You guys are a fucking joke within the industry and within hospitals. And hey, thats a FACT.

 

[Anonymous]

Covidien is the worst loser company in the medical industry. Their products are inferior, recall after recall after recall. It's a great year when you hit 100K in income. They think the are the bees knees. The training is intense, paperwork out the ass and no quan. Not a place I want to be.

Talk to the contrast and nuclear folks. What a joke! Steer clear of Covidien and that is free advice!

 

[Anonymous]

I just stumbled onto this board looking for answers and I hope I can find some here. In March of 07 I had a piece of perietex mesh implanted iiin my left groin are due to an inguanal (I hope I spelled that right) hernia. About 2weeks after the surgery I started to experience alot of left groin and left testicle discomfort and sensitivity so much sensitivity in fact that if my hand or even clothing would grace the testicle it would send me threw the roof along with a constant throbbing sensation. I was constantly in and out of the doctors office, in and out of work and on and of pain medicine (along with nerve block injections). Finally around month 6 the doctor kept me out of work, told me to take it easy and if things didn't clear up that the only way to solve all of my pain was to have the left testicle removed (which I didn't understand since I didn't have surgery there). I was also sent for tests,an MRI on my back to make sure my back wasn't causing the issue and it came back negative, a doppler ultrasound of the groin and testicle to make sure there was proper blood flow, came back negative and last but not least I had a cyscostopy done to make sure I didn't have a jammed kidney stone (which I do have a very long history of them) or prostititis.Wellon this one the found I did have prostititis and put me on cipro and naproxen for the swelling and they pushed it down my neck that this was the cause. Well after 2 mounths on the medicine none of my signs cleared up and it was back to sqaure one after that it wasnt much longer till i was told I was making it up and it was just because I wanted pain meds! so as you might think I got mad and found another doc. After this new doc sent me for and MRI to see what he was dealing with in there he stated to me that he had never seen so many tacs holding this kind of mesh in place (28 to be exact) and he told me I had three options, 1 stay on meds and go for shots for the rest of my life, 2 he would go in and remove the mesh and replace it with a piece of human skin, 3 operateon my back and cut the inguanal nerve. I had already been threw step one so weopted for step 2 which I had done 3 months ago. Here is where it gets better. 24 hours after the surgery I turned black and blue from my left thigh threwout my groin and down my right thigh with unbelievable swelling in the scrodal area, I was then hospitalized for 5 days till the swelling went down and the pain got under control but since this doc claimed the mesh bonded itself to all my nerves and blodd vessels I ended up loosing allblood flow to my left testicle which I am going to have surgery this upcoming Tuesday to have it removed, the testicle that is (talk about a kick in the teeth,I did everything I could not to have the testicle removed and to get rid of the pain and now I'm loosing it anyway with even more pain than before!) and maybe it wouldn't have been that bad if I had the mesh removed sooner but the original doc told me he wouldn't do anything until a year had lapsed and to do alot of walking so like a fool I never looked for another doc and listened and now I'm facing a ton of pain for the rest of my life and the loss of my testicle not to mention anything else that creeps up from this point forward. So after this very long story I just dumped on everyone (I'm sorry but I'm very thankful you all took the time to read it cause I'm very upset over it all and need answers) where do I go from here? Is there any kind of recall on this stuff? Do I go and get a lawyer (believe me I am not a person that sues, I even hate the thought of it but I have tried everything I could and I'm the one that is going to hurt for the rest of my life and maybe never be able to work again and I know everyone makes mistakes and doctors are no different)? Is there anything I should be checking for from this point forward or telling my doctor to send me for special test because not only am I very upset over it I'm scared to death so much so I have been rushed to the hospital many times for panic attacks the literally paralize me because this is all I think about. Please any help anyone can provide me I greatly appreciate it and say thank you from the bottom of my heart cause I just want to have a normal life again and be able to play with my son with no more pain! I'm sorry if there is any misspelling or run on sentences, the more I typed the more upset i got and it affected my typing I'm sure. If there is anything I can answer to help you guys give me answers or if I can help someone else out with what happened to me just post here and I'llrespond ASAP. Thank you allagain ever so much!