Primary Stability no good

[Anonymous]

I'm having issues undersizing the site to place the bone level implant for single stage cases to achieve stability for non-occlusal loading. Some succeed, but the failure rate is much higher. I use Straumman for posterior cases and it works well, but the anterior becomes an issue because the patients want teeth that day. Some pointers would be appreciated. I tried the Active for these cases, but I'm not too impressed because one false anlge of my hand piece and it becomes a nightmare.

Here's the weird part, I bought a bunch of the bone level, and slowly started to use them. Because I don't feel confident, I asked to switch them out. But they won't accept because I'm beyond my exchange period. Is there a way around this? I wish these guys were more easier to deal with. Serious inquiries, I don't use other systems w/o science.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, few things for you. First, the threads on a bone level implant not aggressive, unlike a NobelActive, therefore you would not be able to have the problems with your hand piece during insertion that you mention. Just not possible unless your bone quality is mush, in which case an implant would not be indicated.

Secondly, the protocol for placing a bone level implant is to use all the preparation drills, including the final profile drills and taps where appropriate in order to accommodate the threads. Therefore if you are seeing a higher failure rate with the cases in which you are under sizing the osteotomy and not following protocol, then well I will let you figure that one out yourself.

Thirdly, the 'active' surface is not a mechanical attribute, rather a biological one. It was designed to shorten the healing process and the science behind it is pretty solid, leaving no room for discussion when comparing to other surfaces on the market.

Lastly, I find it hard to believe that your rep is not working with you on exchanging implants. If you truly are trying to exchange them for a different implant then I would suggest you contact their manager if you feel they are not being as responsive to your needs as you would like.

Good luck with your problems and if you need answers try their customer service, they are generally pretty helpful.

 

[Anonymous]

"Good luck with your problems and if you need answers try their customer service, they are generally pretty helpful."

Maybe webMD can help.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, few things for you. First, the threads on a bone level implant not aggressive, unlike a NobelActive, therefore you would not be able to have the problems with your hand piece during insertion that you mention. Just not possible unless your bone quality is mush, in which case an implant would not be indicated.

Secondly, the protocol for placing a bone level implant is to use all the preparation drills, including the final profile drills and taps where appropriate in order to accommodate the threads. Therefore if you are seeing a higher failure rate with the cases in which you are under sizing the osteotomy and not following protocol, then well I will let you figure that one out yourself.

Thirdly, the 'active' surface is not a mechanical attribute, rather a biological one. It was designed to shorten the healing process and the science behind it is pretty solid, leaving no room for discussion when comparing to other surfaces on the market.

Lastly, I find it hard to believe that your rep is not working with you on exchanging implants. If you truly are trying to exchange them for a different implant then I would suggest you contact their manager if you feel they are not being as responsive to your needs as you would like.

Good luck with your problems and if you need answers try their customer service, they are generally pretty helpful.

The reason why I undersize them is because the threads are NOT aggresive, so I try to make the site tight so that the implant would go down with higher insertion in hopes of higher stability (which is not great), sorry for the confusion.

But with that clarification, it still wouldn't answer my issues. At least with the Active, I was able to get the stability, but that implant is sensitive to place. It's almost feels like it's directing itself too much for my taste. As far as the rep, I think it's the company more so than the rep, their policies are pretty rigid. It's like a mentality thing with these guys, including the area mgr.

Thanks for the advice though. What other options would you turn to for higher stability systems? I don't like the Replace, 3i? Zimmer? No knock-off

 

[Anonymous]

The reason why I undersize them is because the threads are NOT aggresive, so I try to make the site tight so that the implant would go down with higher insertion in hopes of higher stability (which is not great), sorry for the confusion.

But with that clarification, it still wouldn't answer my issues. At least with the Active, I was able to get the stability, but that implant is sensitive to place. It's almost feels like it's directing itself too much for my taste. As far as the rep, I think it's the company more so than the rep, their policies are pretty rigid. It's like a mentality thing with these guys, including the area mgr.

Thanks for the advice though. What other options would you turn to for higher stability systems? I don't like the Replace, 3i? Zimmer? No knock-off

Zimmer has the best "bone-level" implants on the market with the TSV, TSVT and new TM Implants. Go Zimmer and don't look back.

 

[Anonymous]

The reason why I undersize them is because the threads are NOT aggresive, so I try to make the site tight so that the implant would go down with higher insertion in hopes of higher stability (which is not great), sorry for the confusion.

But with that clarification, it still wouldn't answer my issues. At least with the Active, I was able to get the stability, but that implant is sensitive to place. It's almost feels like it's directing itself too much for my taste. As far as the rep, I think it's the company more so than the rep, their policies are pretty rigid. It's like a mentality thing with these guys, including the area mgr.

Thanks for the advice though. What other options would you turn to for higher stability systems? I don't like the Replace, 3i? Zimmer? No knock-off

Why is anyone bothering to answer this "doctor?" It's funny, because no one sees this in reality-I'll wait for you to state another "problem" on someone elses page, "doc".

 

[Anonymous]

Why is anyone bothering to answer this "doctor?" It's funny, because no one sees this in reality-I'll wait for you to state another "problem" on someone elses page, "doc".

I've been told the straumman mgmt folks are not flexible in negotiations with the specialist. It is as if they are too good to think of free implants. I had a rep competing rep who was willing to do a switch out and was happy to accept life core implants that expired in 2007. So sad. Meanwhile, I secured a 100 implant order that week. Reason given to the straumman rep: I offer deals with small Amy of free implants and better speakers for education. It's a pkg deal guys, not just cheap prices and big boobs.

 

[Anonymous]

I've been told the straumman mgmt folks are not flexible in negotiations with the specialist. It is as if they are too good to think of free implants. I had a rep competing rep who was willing to do a switch out and was happy to accept life core implants that expired in 2007. So sad. Meanwhile, I secured a 100 implant order that week. Reason given to the straumman rep: I offer deals with small Amy of free implants and better speakers for education. It's a pkg deal guys, not just cheap prices and big boobs.

Ooh I got this one! It's a trick question. You work for Keystone right? I mean why else would you take back implants that we're expired in 2007 from a company that technically doesn't even exist anymore. How many of your 100 implant order did your 'surgeon' actually buy? The last Keystone deal I heard about was something like buy 20 get 80 for free. No wonder they are going out of business...

 

[Anonymous]

Ooh I got this one! It's a trick question. You work for Keystone right? I mean why else would you take back implants that we're expired in 2007 from a company that technically doesn't even exist anymore. How many of your 100 implant order did your 'surgeon' actually buy? The last Keystone deal I heard about was something like buy 20 get 80 for free. No wonder they are going out of business...

Nope, read the post. Since when does keystone offer 'quality' speakers? And this specialist bought all 100, got a small percentage free because of the educational support is more of a value than free implants. So, I mix both as an incentive.

 

[Anonymous]

Nope, read the post. Since when does keystone offer 'quality' speakers? And this specialist bought all 100, got a small percentage free because of the educational support is more of a value than free implants. So, I mix both as an incentive.

Good point, they wouldn't know a quality speaker if one fell on their lap.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a good thing Straumann doesn't give away at the level the others do. They seem to know what they're doing if market share trends are something you follow. Showing pride and defending the innovations that provide real predictability is commendable. The problem with the Zimmer's, Nobel's and 3i's of the world is that their quality is related to the giveaway tactics they use. Zimmer is the crowned champ of freebies, because it's nothing more than Niznick's line from a million years ago, so everyone knows they're not worth 390 dollars each. Even they must laugh at the list price in their own catalog-it's a joke.

How else can they compete? The average Zimmer user probably pays half of that, and then call ID to go even lower on the food chain.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a good thing Straumann doesn't give away at the level the others do. They seem to know what they're doing if market share trends are something you follow. Showing pride and defending the innovations that provide real predictability is commendable. The problem with the Zimmer's, Nobel's and 3i's of the world is that their quality is related to the giveaway tactics they use. Zimmer is the crowned champ of freebies, because it's nothing more than Niznick's line from a million years ago, so everyone knows they're not worth 390 dollars each. Even they must laugh at the list price in their own catalog-it's a joke.

How else can they compete? The average Zimmer user probably pays half of that, and then call ID to go even lower on the food chain.

What do you know about Zimmer? So you work for the Straumann Cult huh? Reality check dumb ass, Zimmer gives "nothing" away for free. Discounts only happen if a Dr. decides to buy in very large quantitites of Implants. Also, with the new TSVT and now the new TM Implant (Medical Breakthrough in Dental), we are far from the origional Niznick Screw Vent Implants of the early 80's. That's your primary school lesson for today. Now go suck your thumb and cry in the corner of your room and ask mommy to make you a nice cup of warm milk.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a good thing Straumann doesn't give away at the level the others do. They seem to know what they're doing if market share trends are something you follow. Showing pride and defending the innovations that provide real predictability is commendable. The problem with the Zimmer's, Nobel's and 3i's of the world is that their quality is related to the giveaway tactics they use. Zimmer is the crowned champ of freebies, because it's nothing more than Niznick's line from a million years ago, so everyone knows they're not worth 390 dollars each. Even they must laugh at the list price in their own catalog-it's a joke.

How else can they compete? The average Zimmer user probably pays half of that, and then call ID to go even lower on the food chain.

Oh so you think you know something about Zimmer do you? Well let me take you to school for a moment. Zimmer gives "nothing" away for free. That is what all the hack clone companies do like ID, MIS, Neoss, BioHorizons, Keystone, Thomen, Megagen, Hiossan, etc. Zimmer only discounts if a customer buys a huge bulk of Implants. Zimmer's discounts are "exactly" on par with Straumann's, Nobel's, 3i's, Astra's for similiar bulk purchases. Finally, Niznick produced the Screw-Vent (straight wall). We are lightyears from the product line with the TSV, TSVT and recently the new Trabecular Metal Dental Implant that is clearly a medical breakthrough in Dental Implant technology that all of you wish that you were selling. The standard of care has officially changed now. I guess that is enough egg on your face for one reply. I let you embarass yourself now with your rookie response.

 

[Anonymous]

Quit making a fool out of yourself Z man, the world knows that your company is the discount leader.

 

[Anonymous]

Quit making a fool out of yourself Z man, the world knows that your company is the discount leader.

Far from the discount leader. We leave that to BioHorizons, Keystone, Sybron, ID, MIS, Neoss, Megagen, Thomen, Blue Sky etc. Like I said, nice rookie response. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been left wanting..........

 

[Anonymous]

Oh so you think you know something about Zimmer do you? Well let me take you to school for a moment. Zimmer gives "nothing" away for free. That is what all the hack clone companies do like ID, MIS, Neoss, BioHorizons, Keystone, Thomen, Megagen, Hiossan, etc. Zimmer only discounts if a customer buys a huge bulk of Implants. Zimmer's discounts are "exactly" on par with Straumann's, Nobel's, 3i's, Astra's for similiar bulk purchases. Finally, Niznick produced the Screw-Vent (straight wall). We are lightyears from the product line with the TSV, TSVT and recently the new Trabecular Metal Dental Implant that is clearly a medical breakthrough in Dental Implant technology that all of you wish that you were selling. The standard of care has officially changed now. I guess that is enough egg on your face for one reply. I let you embarass yourself now with your rookie response.

Dude, do you have brain damage? Did I just see your "rough draft" post and then 10 minutes later, the edited version, posted again? Now I just feel bad for you as a person more than anything else, not just that you defend a product like Niznick's (oops, Zimmer).

The standard of care (and TRIPLE the share Zimmer has in case that brain damage keeps inhibiting your ability to read) is Straumann. Zimmer Dental is in the "also ran" category and not a factor. The medical breakthrough was in Zimmer Orthopaedics-you guys don't, and never have, invented anything of consequence in dental (The Niz did it for you). Zimmer Ortho barely knows you guys exist unless you don't chip in to them with your number, so they can fund themselves-not you.

It would help if you guys proved yourselves as innovators before you talk trash instead of making things that break when you insert them. Now, it's time for you to wander back to your role as the 40-50% discount beggar that you are to the price-conscious set of dentists near retirement, and let the real market leaders duke it out.

One last tip for you: Please, please, go repeat the 3rd grade and maybe you'll finally learn when and when it isn't appropriate to capitalize certain words. That Zimmer screening process has some serious holes in it to let people like you through. Although, it has been funny seeing your personal dumbass "stamp" all over other boards, spewing falsehoods about products while pretending to be a dentist. Get help, kid.

 

[Anonymous]

I've heard from some of the specialist I have spoken to over the years that next to Astra, Straumman has more spinners. That should tell you something when comparing systems for stage one or immediate placement non-occlusal loading protocols.

 

[Anonymous]

Straumann and Astra have the most respected implants and proof of such in the game. I'll take that over whatever you just said. Whatever you're selling, it's a non-issue.

 

[Anonymous]

Straumann and Astra have the most respected implants and proof of such in the game. I'll take that over whatever you just said. Whatever you're selling, it's a non-issue.

Are you guys on crack? Straumann, Astra, or Nobel are not half of the company that Zimmer is. I would rather work for the #1 orthopeadic company in the world than the #1 or #3 dental implant company any day. You guys are just pissed because we have Trabecular Metal and you guys will never have it. Now we can steam roll over you and your precious ITI and make you look like the over sized ego maniacs that you have become. Enjoy the high now as it will quickly disapear as quickly as it came.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you guys on crack? Straumann, Astra, or Nobel are not half of the company that Zimmer is. I would rather work for the #1 orthopeadic company in the world than the #1 or #3 dental implant company any day. You guys are just pissed because we have Trabecular Metal and you guys will never have it. Now we can steam roll over you and your precious ITI and make you look like the over sized ego maniacs that you have become. Enjoy the high now as it will quickly disapear as quickly as it came.

There is, quite literally, NO chance that will happen. You don't work for the #1 orthopaedic company in the world (J&J). You don't even work for Zimmer Ortho. You work for Zimmer Dental, by anyone's estimate the #5 ranked company based on share. You can keep TM--we don't need, or want it. It has no impact on what we do.

The "high" Straumann attained didn't come quickly, and I'm not pissed about whatever you guys are up to at any time. No one cares as much as you think. I don't know what the corporate heads are feeding you, but the TM revolution ain't gonna happen because you simply don't have the reputation of creating meaningful advances in implant technology over there. Zimmer customers are used to paying half of what you charge for that thing. You don't have enough of a track record to get them to switch in droves, and certainly not enough track record to swipe long term Straumann users.

You've been peddling Niznick's stuff a long time, bro. THAT'S who you are. Without him, you'd be working at Hiossen or Megagen if they'd have you. 3 years from now, Sybron/ID might be #4, but you'll still be #5 or #6. Accept it as fact.