Primary Stability no good

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Anonymous said:
They may be popular, but with the patient demand looking for immediate restorations (and who can blame them, toothless or a flipper option suck either way) there are other options that allow the surgeon to meet those demands with predictability. Astra by far has the worse primary stability followed by Straumman.
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Astra may or may not have the worse (?) primary stability (it's why they introduced TX), but it's definitely followed by 3i osseo or nano straight walls-too smooth. I know you try to find ways to beat Straumann, but man, it's getting desperate for you when you try to find stuff that isn't an issue. If you follow the protocols, which are extremely accurate, and with the SLA or SLActive ideal, moderately rough surface, it's a non-issue. SLActive heals to biologic stability quicker than any surface in the world (3-4 weeks) and probably has more proof than all the other surfaces combined. Stick to what you can win. FYI, Astra doesn't sweat you either. Desperation must suck when you chase the winners.
 


Anonymous said:
Astra may or may not have the worse (?) primary stability (it's why they introduced TX), but it's definitely followed by 3i osseo or nano straight walls-too smooth. I know you try to find ways to beat Straumann, but man, it's getting desperate for you when you try to find stuff that isn't an issue. If you follow the protocols, which are extremely accurate, and with the SLA or SLActive ideal, moderately rough surface, it's a non-issue. SLActive heals to biologic stability quicker than any surface in the world (3-4 weeks) and probably has more proof than all the other surfaces combined. Stick to what you can win. FYI, Astra doesn't sweat you either. Desperation must suck when you chase the winners.
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This brings up an interesting question. Everyone, what is your opinion on what surface is most studied, with studies published in respected journals such s Jomi, etc?
 


Anonymous said:
Astra may or may not have the worse (?) primary stability (it's why they introduced TX), but it's definitely followed by 3i osseo or nano straight walls-too smooth. I know you try to find ways to beat Straumann, but man, it's getting desperate for you when you try to find stuff that isn't an issue. If you follow the protocols, which are extremely accurate, and with the SLA or SLActive ideal, moderately rough surface, it's a non-issue. SLActive heals to biologic stability quicker than any surface in the world (3-4 weeks) and probably has more proof than all the other surfaces combined. Stick to what you can win. FYI, Astra doesn't sweat you either. Desperation must suck when you chase the winners.
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Oh so now SLActive heals to biologic stability in 3-4 weeks now. I thought your bullshit study by Ganeles and Friends et all says 6 weeks. You make up this shit as you post it and you have no "official FDA" claims on SLActive so that statement you just made is 100% "OFF LABEL". Go crawl back under your rock you tool.
 


Anonymous said:
Oh so now SLActive heals to biologic stability in 3-4 weeks now. I thought your bullshit study by Ganeles and Friends et all says 6 weeks. You make up this shit as you post it and you have no "official FDA" claims on SLActive so that statement you just made is 100% "OFF LABEL". Go crawl back under your rock you tool.
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6 weeks is the healing time for SLA. I'm not going to be able to help you very much if you can't read published studies. It's always been 3-4 weeks, it's been rigorously evaluated, used, and proven as such. It is not up for debate anywhere. To educate you, it's FDA approved in it's claim. 15 studies BEFORE launch, which is probably 15 more than whatever you have in your bag. Other than that, you're spot on again, Einstein.

These are the reasons you get beaten like a drum out there-you're a treasure trove of misinformation.
 


Anonymous said:
6 weeks is the healing time for SLA. I'm not going to be able to help you very much if you can't read published studies. It's always been 3-4 weeks, it's been rigorously evaluated, used, and proven as such. It is not up for debate anywhere. To educate you, it's FDA approved in it's claim. 15 studies BEFORE launch, which is probably 15 more than whatever you have in your bag. Other than that, you're spot on again, Einstein.

These are the reasons you get beaten like a drum out there-you're a treasure trove of misinformation.
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Reference the studies. Reference the 501k submitted to the FDA supporting your claim. It's easy, go on their website, it's public knowledge. I'm not going to do the job for you. Reference articles published on non-bias publications, not fluff journals. Please, no marketing slicks.

If you can't, then shut up. Also, show me studies proven by double blind test standards which supports any claim on immediate non-occlusial loading to meet the demand of the patient and in turn the demand of the specialist and GP?

Thank you for your time on this matter....Dweeb.
 


Anonymous said:
Reference the studies. Reference the 501k submitted to the FDA supporting your claim. It's easy, go on their website, it's public knowledge. I'm not going to do the job for you. Reference articles published on non-bias publications, not fluff journals. Please, no marketing slicks.

If you can't, then shut up. Also, show me studies proven by double blind test standards which supports any claim on immediate non-occlusial loading to meet the demand of the patient and in turn the demand of the specialist and GP?

Thank you for your time on this matter....Dweeb.
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You know, you really sound stupid when you try to talk like an adult.

First, it is a 510k, NOT a 501k.

Second, google the studies, it's easy, they are public knowledge. Your laziness is your downfall, here and in the field, and is the reason why you get your butt kicked all over your territory.

You're an idiot. You really need to work harder at being 'smart'.
 


Anonymous said:
You know, you really sound stupid when you try to talk like an adult.

First, it is a 510k, NOT a 501k.

Second, google the studies, it's easy, they are public knowledge. Your laziness is your downfall, here and in the field, and is the reason why you get your butt kicked all over your territory.

You're an idiot. You really need to work harder at being 'smart'.
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So rather than take the opportunity to accept the challenge of backing your claim, you chose to throw a schoolyard retort. So then, you choose to try again?
 


Anonymous said:
So rather than take the opportunity to accept the challenge of backing your claim, you chose to throw a schoolyard retort. So then, you choose to try again?
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Sometimes the simplest of retorts are the most effective. Clearly as noted in the previous post you realize that you were throwing out terms and asking for things that you did not understand. I encourage you to go back and take a minute to figure out what kinds of questions make sense, then come back and ask them again. I am happy to go back and forth with you but you need to try to make it above a 3rd grade level of understanding of how medical devices get cleared by the FDA and what kinds of testing is actually relevant.

Seriously, if you want to get information just ask, but ask intelligent questions next time. Go make an effort to learn something and people will take you seriously, here and in the field.
 


Anonymous said:
So rather than take the opportunity to accept the challenge of backing your claim, you chose to throw a schoolyard retort. So then, you choose to try again?
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Listing every relevant, published study here on SLActive would take too many pages and that's just to abbreviate what's been evaluated and accepted by the scientific community as fact. Do ten minutes of research and you'll understand my point. Besides, I don't need to prove anything like SLActive to wannabe, 3rd tier implant reps out there who sell garbage. It's not like it's a secret in the implant world how well it behaves, the sales have been outstanding, not based on marketing, but rather Straumann's continued, unmatched level of commitment to clinical excellence. I know it bothers you enough to misinform everyone here or cry wolf, but I think you need to pick smarter battles-this one you can't win.
 


Anonymous said:
Listing every relevant, published study here on SLActive would take too many pages and that's just to abbreviate what's been evaluated and accepted by the scientific community as fact. Do ten minutes of research and you'll understand my point. Besides, I don't need to prove anything like SLActive to wannabe, 3rd tier implant reps out there who sell garbage. It's not like it's a secret in the implant world how well it behaves, the sales have been outstanding, not based on marketing, but rather Straumann's continued, unmatched level of commitment to clinical excellence. I know it bothers you enough to misinform everyone here or cry wolf, but I think you need to pick smarter battles-this one you can't win.
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Again, we seem to have a failure of communication. If I recall, claims were made by you, and all I asked was for evidence from the respected trade journals and proof of double-blind studies backing your company claims. There aren't too many of these 'respected' trade publications, and usually there's only a handful of double-blind studies of 500 or more patients. So please try to humour the implant selling public and provide the details. Again, nothing from marketing or internal studies.
 


Anonymous said:
Again, we seem to have a failure of communication. If I recall, claims were made by you, and all I asked was for evidence from the respected trade journals and proof of double-blind studies backing your company claims. There aren't too many of these 'respected' trade publications, and usually there's only a handful of double-blind studies of 500 or more patients. So please try to humour the implant selling public and provide the details. Again, nothing from marketing or internal studies.
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I am mystified as to why the burdon of proof is on us to prove the success of our implant line on this message board when the proof is readily available to the public. Get off your ass and look it up. I am finding it pointless to respond to a mudslinger like yourself because nothing anyone says will ever be good enough for you. If I come back and show you the data, which once again is easy to find on this really cool thing called 'google', you will just come up with some BS response and continue to try to disparage Straumann and their accomplishments.

If you want to get into a serious discussion on where the market is heading or what kinds of products will impact the industry the most then fine, let's do that. But for you to come on here with your BS agenda of trying to make Straumann look bad is just ridiculous. The facts are the facts, we are #1 in the world and damn close to #1 in the US. This is due to the efforts and pride we take in making sure that our products are the very best we can manufacture for our customers, that would be the patients. The company constantly checks and rechecks this prior to market release of any product as well as after by continuing to study the products as new treatment options come into everyday practice.

The problem with people like you is that you are looking at our success and saying 'hey where's my piece of that pie?' well there's an answer for you, your piece is spilt up amongst the many bottom feeders in the industry who chose flashy marketing instead of science to sell their product. Sure you had enough to get cleared by the FDA, but you stopped there, which is why after a few months you seem to lose your customers.

I'd like to tell you that Straumann is hiring and that you should check out their website, but to be truthful, I am pretty sure you're not qualified based on our discussion here. Best of luck to you in the future, you're gonna need it.
 




What to do with all these Straumman implants? I have 30 of them, the guy didn't care for them anymore. It was a switch out. Hmmm, maybe bolt my deck with them? Hang my 60 inch plasma? Maybe offer them to a piercing shop, make belly button trinkets? Now there's an idea!
 




What good is primary stability if your over all success & survival rates are subpar? Implant dentistry isn't carpentry you idiots. I could probaby get a screw from Home Depot that would give me higher primary stability, but that doesn't mean it's going to have the most osseointegration you bunch of freaking primates. Biology, surface topography, surgical protocol, not being a kool-aid drinking cry baby...think about it.
 


Anonymous said:
What good is primary stability if your over all success & survival rates are subpar? Implant dentistry isn't carpentry you idiots. I could probaby get a screw from Home Depot that would give me higher primary stability, but that doesn't mean it's going to have the most osseointegration you bunch of freaking primates. Biology, surface topography, surgical protocol, not being a kool-aid drinking cry baby...think about it.
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This guy has no clue about biology and why primary stability would assist with the healing process and the conversion of biological stability. Wow, no wonder these guys have gone through 5 reps since I've been around.
 


Really dumbass? I'm not saying primary stability isn't important. I'm saying there's more to implants than primary stability more than 35ncm. I probably know more about biology than any of you freaking crybabies on this website. Everyone is always crying about Straumann. Give me a break. NO ONE on here talks about anything positive. If you guys did anything other than sell on price and HIGH primary stability you might not have so much to cry about.
 




Four simple words-- lazy, unproductive, toxic and negative. And the winner of this award goes to the Dallas RD Griff. He definitely receives the all-time worse manager award.
 


Anonymous said:
Four simple words-- lazy, unproductive, toxic and negative. And the winner of this award goes to the Dallas RD Griff. He definitely receives the all-time worse manager award.
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The only people that would say that would be one of the Straumann TM's in Dallas who are all known (except for 2) to be the laziest reps of any company in any field. Those reps could be making a killing if they would just show up at a docs office or call ANYONE back. It's amazing Straumann HQ hasn't given him the blessing to fire everyone in the Dallas area and start completely over. 50% of all Nobel accounts in the Dallas area are willing to switch to Straumann but have voiced their frustration over lack of field support. Is Griff lazy because he can't make it to everyone's territory and sell for you lazy bums?
 



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