What do we get from Optimer?


Guys,

The C. Diff drug is a DOG. I still can't believe management thinks this is an attractive purchase!

Not true, take the time to look at the data. Dificid is clearly superior to vanco. It's just priced too high for formulary thresholds to justify using it.

Now if you are referring to the Cubist c. diff drug in development, then you are right. It has no advantage over other drugs currently on the market. It's going to be a very expensive and time consuming process for Cubist to continue developing a me-too drug that has no clinical advantage.
 
Not true, take the time to look at the data. Dificid is clearly superior to vanco. It's just priced too high for formulary thresholds to justify using it.

Now if you are referring to the Cubist c. diff drug in development, then you are right. It has no advantage over other drugs currently on the market. It's going to be a very expensive and time consuming process for Cubist to continue developing a me-too drug that has no clinical advantage.

Dificid is not "clearly superior" to vanco or FDA would have allowed you to make the claim.
 
Dificid is not "clearly superior" to vanco or FDA would have allowed you to make the claim.

Uh, Sparky, check on that again. Dificid has a 14 % reduced rate of c. diff infection recurrence than Vanc. The FDA has allowed Optimer to state that it is considered superior. It was a secondary endpoint to their head to head non-inferior study.
 
Uh, Sparky, check on that again. Dificid has a 14 % reduced rate of c. diff infection recurrence than Vanc. The FDA has allowed Optimer to state that it is considered superior. It was a secondary endpoint to their head to head non-inferior study.

BFD on a single secondary endpoint in isolates that are non-BLI. It is NOT superior in the more dangerous strain, nor is there any HEOR data (remember we've been bitching about that?) that clinical pharmacists are accepting for unrestricted formulary status. The language is in the clinical trials section and not in the indications section. Do you think clinical pharmacists and physicians will buy that? Our sales certainly don't show it.

I don't know how long you have been selling antibiotics, but selling on a single endpoint and implying superiority in every patient is what got Pfizer fined for claiming Zyvox was superior to vanco.
 
BFD on a single secondary endpoint in isolates that are non-BLI. It is NOT superior in the more dangerous strain, nor is there any HEOR data (remember we've been bitching about that?) that clinical pharmacists are accepting for unrestricted formulary status. The language is in the clinical trials section and not in the indications section. Do you think clinical pharmacists and physicians will buy that? Our sales certainly don't show it.

I don't know how long you have been selling antibiotics, but selling on a single endpoint and implying superiority in every patient is what got Pfizer fined for claiming Zyvox was superior to vanco.

Microbiology-Guy, an overwhelming number of c. Diff strains are BLI. That makes Dificid having better recurrence rates than Vanco a "BFD" in your crude vernacular. Price is what is holding this drug back.
 
Sure, Dificid has been a tougher sell and there have been many challenges in the co-promotion.. However, the model was doomed to fail from the beginning.. Incentive compensation wasn't aligned which was a bone headed move.. Why on earth would any company enter an agreement if there was already a sales force dedicated to selling their secondary product?? And if any effort was deployed on Cubists' behalf, there was no return (in respect to bonus dollars paid) on their investment of time.. Where was the motivation?? Optimer paid well for bonus, Cubist paid shit for their efforts.. Period!

Although the "marriage" didn't necessarily pan out in certain parts of the country, I can tell you that my Cubist counterpart was solid as they come and has become a good friend.. It is too bad that senior leadership decided to price us out of the market and fuck it up royally for all of us.. With the right price, great leadership and aligned incentive compensation we could have hit a home run...
 
Microbiology-Guy, an overwhelming number of c. Diff strains are BLI. That makes Dificid having better recurrence rates than Vanco a "BFD" in your crude vernacular. Price is what is holding this drug back.

And they will just treat longer and with higher doses of the generic vancomycin injection compounded in cherry syrup and ground up generic metronidazole tablets.

Dificid didn't make the guidelines as first or second choice, and CDC sees no reason to change their guidance. In other words, we're stuck as a third-line, overly expensive option that is subject to more prior authorization than cancer compounds.

Even if they dropped the price by an order of magnitude (that means by factor of 10), the stuff will still not make it. We're flailing because of bad merchandising of the product relative to the much cheaper options, and because Medical Affairs did not bother getting the drug onto the guidelines appropriately. They missed the boat.
 
Sure, Dificid has been a tougher sell and there have been many challenges in the co-promotion.. However, the model was doomed to fail from the beginning.. Incentive compensation wasn't aligned which was a bone headed move.. Why on earth would any company enter an agreement if there was already a sales force dedicated to selling their secondary product?? And if any effort was deployed on Cubists' behalf, there was no return (in respect to bonus dollars paid) on their investment of time.. Where was the motivation?? Optimer paid well for bonus, Cubist paid shit for their efforts.. Period!

Although the "marriage" didn't necessarily pan out in certain parts of the country, I can tell you that my Cubist counterpart was solid as they come and has become a good friend.. It is too bad that senior leadership decided to price us out of the market and fuck it up royally for all of us.. With the right price, great leadership and aligned incentive compensation we could have hit a home run...

Glad you have a new friend!!! great. I don't need friends like that!
 
This co-promo was a mistake from the very beginning. However, it's going to happen so time to accept. Here are the facts:
Dificid has a relative reduction in recurrences of almost 50% in the per protocol population. This is significant.
The price of the drug is too damn high. Those jack asses at Optimer priced it way to high when they got "superiority" in their label.
Our C. diff drug has not superiority claims. Hence, we bought these idiots.
Optimer management is a joke from what I can see. That dude from TExas who thinks he's all knowing and is in charge is a dip shit. Jorge something.
If we drop the price to a reasonable price, it will sell. Have to make it up in volume.
 
I think you're right--the biggest challenge is the price that Optimer's idiot management wanted for the stuff. Superiority label be damned if it doesn't move product. We will spend the first six months rebuilding the territories, the second six months trying to deal with fallout from the idiot mismanagement of the product's placing in the guidelines and then maybe we will be able to move it to a better position.
 
You're absolutely correct.. Our management (Optimer) were/are arrogant and priced us out of the ballpark. There is still great potential in Dificid as long as a viable plan (financially and contractually) is deployed from a hospital and LTC standpoint. There is a ton of talent from a sales perspective at both organizations. .. We now need out-of-touch with reality management on both sides to give us an opportunity to win.. It can't be the same, let's price Dificid and Cubicin out of the stratosphere approach.. both sides have clearly missed there sales goals so please stop with the bullshit.. From the Cubist perspective, do you think the Optimer sales force will be around after the merger has come to fruition? Just trying to wrap my arms around what the future will hold ffor my family and children.. the same concerns that we all have..
 
You'll get LaShannon Akins, a VERY scary and deeply disturbed woman who thinks she is prettier than everyone else (no honey child, the pounds of makeup you slather on your face don't make you gorgeous, just creepy looking)...and she she claims that ALL women are threatened by her b/c of her "higher learning". Oh yeah, she a published author on a book about who evil men are. Umm....errr. WTH?
 
You're absolutely correct.. Our management (Optimer) were/are arrogant and priced us out of the ballpark. There is still great potential in Dificid as long as a viable plan (financially and contractually) is deployed from a hospital and LTC standpoint. There is a ton of talent from a sales perspective at both organizations. .. We now need out-of-touch with reality management on both sides to give us an opportunity to win.. It can't be the same, let's price Dificid and Cubicin out of the stratosphere approach.. both sides have clearly missed there sales goals so please stop with the bullshit.. From the Cubist perspective, do you think the Optimer sales force will be around after the merger has come to fruition? Just trying to wrap my arms around what the future will hold ffor my family and children.. the same concerns that we all have..

Probably will keep a few around, but honestly there isn't much hope that everybody will. We already call on the same accounts and there isn't much new with Cubicin--just playing it down to the patent end. I worked fine with my Optimer partner, but that person left. Don't know where it will go from here. Good luck.
 
what will they base their decision on? numbers, territories? Can we do anything to make us more attractive to Cubist at this point? Dificid is a great drug with a ton of potential. And a large portion of business comes from GI and LTC, so maybe you need us? or is that just wishful thinking. Either way, i hope we know soon, because working with no goal stinks
 
You'll get LaShannon Akins, a VERY scary and deeply disturbed woman who thinks she is prettier than everyone else (no honey child, the pounds of makeup you slather on your face don't make you gorgeous, just creepy looking)...and she she claims that ALL women are threatened by her b/c of her "higher learning". Oh yeah, she a published author on a book about who evil men are. Umm....errr. WTH?

Hmmm....catfight? Reeer!! Reeeeer!!! Psssst!!! pssst!!!
 
what will they base their decision on? numbers, territories? Can we do anything to make us more attractive to Cubist at this point? Dificid is a great drug with a ton of potential. And a large portion of business comes from GI and LTC, so maybe you need us? or is that just wishful thinking. Either way, i hope we know soon, because working with no goal stinks

No goal, no leadership, no communication, no nothing from no body around Optimer. Unfortunately many of the original Optimer reps make as much base salary as the Cubist managers so we will be the first to go. Have a back up plan in place now and do not just sit and wait to see what happens.
 
Good luck selling Dificid. You'll need it since most of you have never sold it. Don't say you have been co-promoting it for two years because we all know that only a few of you actually tried. I'm out!
 
I used to work at OPTR w/G.P. I can promise you that his hands were tied by Pedro and the group of clowns at McKinsey Consulting. Junior McKinsey consultants did all the pricing and positioning analysis. I have never seen such low quality work in my life (e.g., they assumed 100% compliance!). G.P. tried to argue but the McKinsey partner would whisper sweat nothings in Pedro's ear and rub is little belly.

Pedro should (and may) go to jail. McKinsey should be recommended to your competitors.

G.P. knew he had no chance but he also had no choice. If you knew what went on you would give him a break. I felt he was solid.
 


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