The doc probably should get more if we cared about "bringing value to society" above all else, but as Americans, we don't. We're capitalists who care about bringing cash into a company and value to stockholders. Does the DM not trump the MD here?... (at least the MDs in primary care?)
District Manager/Regional Manager/salary and bonus
- Thread starter Anonymous
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
I believe it was the Regional Manager that was making more than the Doc, not a DM. I think anyone who manages 100-150 people should be paid more than a family physician. A well managed region of highly clinical sales reps brings a whole lot more value to society then one family doc removing warts in an office.
Well if you feel so bad for doctors and the inequities in our system, why don't you pay your doctor even more money than he collects from your insurer and your co-pay? Go ahead and clear your conscience or to help mankind or whatever your reasons for caring about the issue.
[ QUOTE ]
I believe it was the Regional Manager that was making more than the Doc, not a DM. I think anyone who manages 100-150 people should be paid more than a family physician. A well managed region of highly clinical sales reps brings a whole lot more value to society then one family doc removing warts in an office.
[/ QUOTE ]
Spoken like a true manager. And this attitude is the precise reason that managers are banned from offices. My god, man. You manage 100-150 caterers/Barbies/Kens and honestly think that trumps a physician with a case load of several hundred patients of all ages with all manner of disease states. You have a degree in marketing and maybe a MBA and that trumps medical school and internship and a residency and whatever else? You have zero to zilch liability and pay zero insurance premiums to peddle the "clinical" data while a physician pays through the nose to--as you so disparagingly state--treat warts? You know, your arrogance would be more disturbing if I hadn't had first hand experience in the koolaid you have been drinking for so long. I hope that no receptionist shows this crap to a physician and noone picks it up to post on a thread where physicians can get to it because those 100 to 150 reps you are toiling over may have no place to go tomorrow. You are an utter idiot.
I believe it was the Regional Manager that was making more than the Doc, not a DM. I think anyone who manages 100-150 people should be paid more than a family physician. A well managed region of highly clinical sales reps brings a whole lot more value to society then one family doc removing warts in an office.
[/ QUOTE ]
Spoken like a true manager. And this attitude is the precise reason that managers are banned from offices. My god, man. You manage 100-150 caterers/Barbies/Kens and honestly think that trumps a physician with a case load of several hundred patients of all ages with all manner of disease states. You have a degree in marketing and maybe a MBA and that trumps medical school and internship and a residency and whatever else? You have zero to zilch liability and pay zero insurance premiums to peddle the "clinical" data while a physician pays through the nose to--as you so disparagingly state--treat warts? You know, your arrogance would be more disturbing if I hadn't had first hand experience in the koolaid you have been drinking for so long. I hope that no receptionist shows this crap to a physician and noone picks it up to post on a thread where physicians can get to it because those 100 to 150 reps you are toiling over may have no place to go tomorrow. You are an utter idiot.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe it was the Regional Manager that was making more than the Doc, not a DM. I think anyone who manages 100-150 people should be paid more than a family physician. A well managed region of highly clinical sales reps brings a whole lot more value to society then one family doc removing warts in an office.
[/ QUOTE ]
Spoken like a true manager. And this attitude is the precise reason that managers are banned from offices. My god, man. You manage 100-150 caterers/Barbies/Kens and honestly think that trumps a physician with a case load of several hundred patients of all ages with all manner of disease states. You have a degree in marketing and maybe a MBA and that trumps medical school and internship and a residency and whatever else? You have zero to zilch liability and pay zero insurance premiums to peddle the "clinical" data while a physician pays through the nose to--as you so disparagingly state--treat warts? You know, your arrogance would be more disturbing if I hadn't had first hand experience in the koolaid you have been drinking for so long. I hope that no receptionist shows this crap to a physician and noone picks it up to post on a thread where physicians can get to it because those 100 to 150 reps you are toiling over may have no place to go tomorrow. You are an utter idiot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Calling this guy an "utter idiot" is disparaging and insulting to true utter idiots all over the world, who are shining beacons of wisdom compared to this tool. The worst part is, there are SO many managers in the industry that feel this way -delusional in their belief that "highly clinical reps" are out there everyday educating the doctors to an extent so meaningful as to benefit all of society. Well, at least more more benefit than some doctor removing warts. I hope you get warts so bad that your face looks like a scrotum.
Here's a newsflash for you, you psychotic crunch-cloth. The docs are onto how your game works! Your studies mean nothing to them. They are limiting access all over the country because reps do not provide sufficient value and/or are trustworthy enough to justify allowing them in an office. You have nothing to leverage with except FOOD! If they don't get the samples from you, a competitor will be glad to step up, and the doc will use their product, and don't give me that formulary bullshit, because there's usually a couple in the class on formulary at the same tier.
And once this thread comes to light and makes the rounds through the offices, (and it will), things will go even worse for you. This could be the beginning of a purge of this industry, and I hope you get burned, turd.
[ QUOTE ]
I believe it was the Regional Manager that was making more than the Doc, not a DM. I think anyone who manages 100-150 people should be paid more than a family physician. A well managed region of highly clinical sales reps brings a whole lot more value to society then one family doc removing warts in an office.
[/ QUOTE ]
Spoken like a true manager. And this attitude is the precise reason that managers are banned from offices. My god, man. You manage 100-150 caterers/Barbies/Kens and honestly think that trumps a physician with a case load of several hundred patients of all ages with all manner of disease states. You have a degree in marketing and maybe a MBA and that trumps medical school and internship and a residency and whatever else? You have zero to zilch liability and pay zero insurance premiums to peddle the "clinical" data while a physician pays through the nose to--as you so disparagingly state--treat warts? You know, your arrogance would be more disturbing if I hadn't had first hand experience in the koolaid you have been drinking for so long. I hope that no receptionist shows this crap to a physician and noone picks it up to post on a thread where physicians can get to it because those 100 to 150 reps you are toiling over may have no place to go tomorrow. You are an utter idiot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Calling this guy an "utter idiot" is disparaging and insulting to true utter idiots all over the world, who are shining beacons of wisdom compared to this tool. The worst part is, there are SO many managers in the industry that feel this way -delusional in their belief that "highly clinical reps" are out there everyday educating the doctors to an extent so meaningful as to benefit all of society. Well, at least more more benefit than some doctor removing warts. I hope you get warts so bad that your face looks like a scrotum.
Here's a newsflash for you, you psychotic crunch-cloth. The docs are onto how your game works! Your studies mean nothing to them. They are limiting access all over the country because reps do not provide sufficient value and/or are trustworthy enough to justify allowing them in an office. You have nothing to leverage with except FOOD! If they don't get the samples from you, a competitor will be glad to step up, and the doc will use their product, and don't give me that formulary bullshit, because there's usually a couple in the class on formulary at the same tier.
And once this thread comes to light and makes the rounds through the offices, (and it will), things will go even worse for you. This could be the beginning of a purge of this industry, and I hope you get burned, turd.
Wow the insults on here are pretty disgusting and getting personal toward the pro industry people. It's kind of interesting to see actually as a new comer to this thread. The people that have tried to logically explain the reasons why some regional pharma managers may make more than primary care doctors have been called "utter idiots", "psychotic crunch cloths", turds etc etc. It seems that personal insults, rather than a rational thought process rules the day here. Its pretty clear that the anti-industry groups have permeated this blog---which is wonderful----it's just disturbing when the remarks get inflammatory. But it is evident that as usual, when it comes to the anti industry extremists, emotion rears its ugly head.
[ QUOTE ]
Wow the insults on here are pretty disgusting and getting personal toward the pro industry people. It's kind of interesting to see actually as a new comer to this thread. The people that have tried to logically explain the reasons why some regional pharma managers may make more than primary care doctors have been called "utter idiots", "psychotic crunch cloths", turds etc etc. It seems that personal insults, rather than a rational thought process rules the day here. Its pretty clear that the anti-industry groups have permeated this blog---which is wonderful----it's just disturbing when the remarks get inflammatory. But it is evident that as usual, when it comes to the anti industry extremists, emotion rears its ugly head.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is according to how one defines "anti-industry". To me that is reach and frequency policies enforced by RSMs and DSMs that have caused offices to close their practices to reps. It is also the industry demanding reps conduct speaker programs that cost a bundle that physicians have to be coerced to attend. I could go on and on but as someone new to the industry (I am assuming same as new to the thread) the previous poster didn't recognize that the remarks posted were probably those of present managers and reps who are tired of the bull. Tired of the anointed who somehow become managers and lost perspective of what this industry has become, simply because they are the clones its produces. Look. I am a rep. But I get exactly what the previous posters are saying. It is not anti-industry. It is just fact. Also, in my opinion, there is no logical reason why a RSM for pharma should have a greater compensation than a medical doctor. Put aside one's self interests and just think about it. No way.
Wow the insults on here are pretty disgusting and getting personal toward the pro industry people. It's kind of interesting to see actually as a new comer to this thread. The people that have tried to logically explain the reasons why some regional pharma managers may make more than primary care doctors have been called "utter idiots", "psychotic crunch cloths", turds etc etc. It seems that personal insults, rather than a rational thought process rules the day here. Its pretty clear that the anti-industry groups have permeated this blog---which is wonderful----it's just disturbing when the remarks get inflammatory. But it is evident that as usual, when it comes to the anti industry extremists, emotion rears its ugly head.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is according to how one defines "anti-industry". To me that is reach and frequency policies enforced by RSMs and DSMs that have caused offices to close their practices to reps. It is also the industry demanding reps conduct speaker programs that cost a bundle that physicians have to be coerced to attend. I could go on and on but as someone new to the industry (I am assuming same as new to the thread) the previous poster didn't recognize that the remarks posted were probably those of present managers and reps who are tired of the bull. Tired of the anointed who somehow become managers and lost perspective of what this industry has become, simply because they are the clones its produces. Look. I am a rep. But I get exactly what the previous posters are saying. It is not anti-industry. It is just fact. Also, in my opinion, there is no logical reason why a RSM for pharma should have a greater compensation than a medical doctor. Put aside one's self interests and just think about it. No way.
It's simple math. There are more primary care doctors in the USA than there are RSM's. Supply and demand. That's why cops and public school teachers get paid shit. Because there are too many to pay well. It's the nature of the beast.
Also, I guess docs could refuse to accept insurance like they did years ago when they made shitloads of money. It's their own fault for whoreing their services for practically free and opening the floodgates for lesser educated foreigners to come in and lower their pay even more. It's also your fault for forcing doctors to treat for free if an emergency as well as the forcing it upon the hospitals. That you need to take up with your legislatures. Hate me for saying this but it's the truth.
Also, I guess docs could refuse to accept insurance like they did years ago when they made shitloads of money. It's their own fault for whoreing their services for practically free and opening the floodgates for lesser educated foreigners to come in and lower their pay even more. It's also your fault for forcing doctors to treat for free if an emergency as well as the forcing it upon the hospitals. That you need to take up with your legislatures. Hate me for saying this but it's the truth.
Maybe the compensation is more to do with the profit margin of pharma as opposed to the profit margin of health care. Ya think?
This thread is interesting, but all I know is what I see. I don't have a clue what a regional sales manager actually does, so I can't address that. I do know what my DSM does, and I can tell you it is not much. And the DSM knows it and really makes no attempt to hide it. Faked ride alongs. Worthless conference calls. If a DSM has a crew of experienced reps with an established drug with the marketing machine and reach and frequency quotas dictating every move reps make, what does a DSM do other than file reports? My DSM is an anonymous presence for the most part.
I always thought family docs made a tom of money, a heck of alot more than pharma people, anyway calm down people!
It is interesting to me as an outsider to the industry to read the physician perspective on compensation. Here you have a person who has most likely worked hard his whole life, good grades, extracurricular activities and honors at graduation all in the pursuit of acceptance to medical school and ultimately a medical degree. Pretty hard work to get there eh? To finally realize the benefit of your hard work.
Funny how that same dedication to a career in the business world is not worth the payout. That rep who started out of college worked to DM and to RM through 10 years by hitting numbers and obtaining an MBA shouldn’t get paid like you eh?
In other words, different skill set than Doctor should = Less $?
Interesting view of the world.
Funny how that same dedication to a career in the business world is not worth the payout. That rep who started out of college worked to DM and to RM through 10 years by hitting numbers and obtaining an MBA shouldn’t get paid like you eh?
In other words, different skill set than Doctor should = Less $?
Interesting view of the world.
Are you equating a MBA to a Doctorate of Medicine? The ten years for the business major while getting his MBA at night--well, the doctor is still in medical school full time not earning any compensation. So with that logic the physician should be paid more to compensate for years of labor lost while earning the greater amount of hours in order to just practice his profession--time spent that the MBA does not put in because the level of education required is not close to that of a doctor. The personal liability and direct responsibility for human lives of a physician is also on a different plane than the responsibilities of one with a MBA. Also to be considered should be the cost of a doctorate of medicine vs that of a MBA. I realize and concur the great value of a MBA graduate to society. I do, however, conclude that the salary of one who earns a doctorate of medicine (given they start earning that at your estimation at least 10 years later than the MBA) should be at a higher level than that of a MBA degreed individual. So shoot me.
The question should be..."how "smart" is someone who kills themself through schooling, residency, boards, expensive schools, lost income opportunity during that time, the high risks of being sued and having responsibility for human life in your hands, and you stay in it making shit money vs. getting out of it and using your brain to make money easier wherever it is?"
The best and brightest are not going to medical school anymore because of this. Mostly, you're getting flooded with B/C+ students and foreigners becoming primary care doctors. You get what you pay for. That's why docs make shit! It's their own fault for lowering standards, not policing themselves, accepting medicare/medicaid, accepting HMOs and being told how to practice medicine by them, being forced to treat the poor, and yours for being so cheap and trying to socialize medicine.
The best and brightest are not going to medical school anymore because of this. Mostly, you're getting flooded with B/C+ students and foreigners becoming primary care doctors. You get what you pay for. That's why docs make shit! It's their own fault for lowering standards, not policing themselves, accepting medicare/medicaid, accepting HMOs and being told how to practice medicine by them, being forced to treat the poor, and yours for being so cheap and trying to socialize medicine.
I never cease to be amazed at some of the crap posted on CP. Just when I think nothing can top a post, something like the previous post pops up.
[ QUOTE ]
It's simple math. There are more primary care doctors in the USA than there are RSM's. Supply and demand. That's why cops and public school teachers get paid shit. Because there are too many to pay well. It's the nature of the beast.
Also, I guess docs could refuse to accept insurance like they did years ago when they made shitloads of money. It's their own fault for whoreing their services for practically free and opening the floodgates for lesser educated foreigners to come in and lower their pay even more. It's also your fault for forcing doctors to treat for free if an emergency as well as the forcing it upon the hospitals. That you need to take up with your legislatures. Hate me for saying this but it's the truth.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are actually shortages of certain types of teachers, iirc math and science. So by your logic, the math and science teachers in my kids junior h.s. are making a bundle, due to supply and demand?!? Most schools are public institutions, genius, and if you haven't noticed, government isn't the best run "business" around.
MD's should make more money than RSM's. I don't know what RSM's do, but I'm not sure it's really worth what they're paid. Same with DSM's. Same with reps, at least considering how many of them are in the industry. It seems that a smaller, less managed sales force could accomplish the same or maybe more than the 90,000+ are doing. What are they doing, anyway, aside from decreasing access for themselves?
If there were half as many reps then I think the current salaries paid to reps would be totally justified. DSM's and RSM's should get 10-20K more a year than the reps, just to keep them humble
.
It's simple math. There are more primary care doctors in the USA than there are RSM's. Supply and demand. That's why cops and public school teachers get paid shit. Because there are too many to pay well. It's the nature of the beast.
Also, I guess docs could refuse to accept insurance like they did years ago when they made shitloads of money. It's their own fault for whoreing their services for practically free and opening the floodgates for lesser educated foreigners to come in and lower their pay even more. It's also your fault for forcing doctors to treat for free if an emergency as well as the forcing it upon the hospitals. That you need to take up with your legislatures. Hate me for saying this but it's the truth.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are actually shortages of certain types of teachers, iirc math and science. So by your logic, the math and science teachers in my kids junior h.s. are making a bundle, due to supply and demand?!? Most schools are public institutions, genius, and if you haven't noticed, government isn't the best run "business" around.
MD's should make more money than RSM's. I don't know what RSM's do, but I'm not sure it's really worth what they're paid. Same with DSM's. Same with reps, at least considering how many of them are in the industry. It seems that a smaller, less managed sales force could accomplish the same or maybe more than the 90,000+ are doing. What are they doing, anyway, aside from decreasing access for themselves?
If there were half as many reps then I think the current salaries paid to reps would be totally justified. DSM's and RSM's should get 10-20K more a year than the reps, just to keep them humble
[ QUOTE ]
I never cease to be amazed at some of the crap posted on CP. Just when I think nothing can top a post, something like the previous post pops up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fuck off Howard Dean. Go back to politics you know it all good for nothing.
I never cease to be amazed at some of the crap posted on CP. Just when I think nothing can top a post, something like the previous post pops up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fuck off Howard Dean. Go back to politics you know it all good for nothing.
You are all IDIOTS. Professional athletes make more money than teachers, doctors, policemen, EMT's, Sciencetists, engineers, missionary people. SO F'in WHAT. It's called being part of a capitalistic society and not everyone gets everything in equal amounts. If that is what you want move your ass to China, N Korea, Cuba, where you don't have to do anything but get something as just as much and just as little as everyone else. This opportunity is what makes America great. It's not that fact that it is right that this is happening but it's part of OUR society. If you dont like it get out simply put.
Futhermore, take 25K of your salary and hand it out to all of the docs in your territory every year and that will help counterbalance the problem. Didnt think you were interested in that solution......
Futhermore, take 25K of your salary and hand it out to all of the docs in your territory every year and that will help counterbalance the problem. Didnt think you were interested in that solution......
[ QUOTE ]
You are all IDIOTS. Professional athletes make more money than teachers, doctors, policemen, EMT's, Sciencetists, engineers, missionary people. SO F'in WHAT. It's called being part of a capitalistic society and not everyone gets everything in equal amounts. If that is what you want move your ass to China, N Korea, Cuba, where you don't have to do anything but get something as just as much and just as little as everyone else. This opportunity is what makes America great. It's not that fact that it is right that this is happening but it's part of OUR society. If you dont like it get out simply put.
Futhermore, take 25K of your salary and hand it out to all of the docs in your territory every year and that will help counterbalance the problem. Didnt think you were interested in that solution......
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes yes we all get it. Pro athletes make millions, and that's capitalism for you.
That doesn't change the fact that many doctors are making less and less money each year. Everything from decreasing reimbursement for services to higher costs for malpractice insurance means less take home pay for the doctor. I know many physicinas who have left their practices to pursue other careers. I know many more who love their jobs, but are frustrated by the long hours and low pay.
But that's okay with you, because that's capitalism, and if I don't like it, I should go to Cuba.
How about instead of that, I could just vote for things like caps on malpractice awards. Or maybe we could work on changing public opinion, so that reimbursement of services doesn't decrease, but would increase.
How about we work within the system to make changes. Would that be okay with you?
What makes me think DSM's and RVP's should get less is that they don't carry the weight the reps do. Furthermore, it is highly disturbing to me that someone on this thread who was supposedly a manager wrote with such disdain for physicians. Something about 100 to 150 drug reps providing more value to society than a doctor removing warts.
Is that the attitude you want the leadership of your company to have? "Doctors are a bunch of wart removers, but my reps are adding value to society". WTF? What happened to "we are GUESTS in the doctor's office"?
I know one thing. I don't think there's ever been a time in history when someone has fallen ill, and someone else has said "Quick! Call a drug rep!"
You are all IDIOTS. Professional athletes make more money than teachers, doctors, policemen, EMT's, Sciencetists, engineers, missionary people. SO F'in WHAT. It's called being part of a capitalistic society and not everyone gets everything in equal amounts. If that is what you want move your ass to China, N Korea, Cuba, where you don't have to do anything but get something as just as much and just as little as everyone else. This opportunity is what makes America great. It's not that fact that it is right that this is happening but it's part of OUR society. If you dont like it get out simply put.
Futhermore, take 25K of your salary and hand it out to all of the docs in your territory every year and that will help counterbalance the problem. Didnt think you were interested in that solution......
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes yes we all get it. Pro athletes make millions, and that's capitalism for you.
That doesn't change the fact that many doctors are making less and less money each year. Everything from decreasing reimbursement for services to higher costs for malpractice insurance means less take home pay for the doctor. I know many physicinas who have left their practices to pursue other careers. I know many more who love their jobs, but are frustrated by the long hours and low pay.
But that's okay with you, because that's capitalism, and if I don't like it, I should go to Cuba.
How about instead of that, I could just vote for things like caps on malpractice awards. Or maybe we could work on changing public opinion, so that reimbursement of services doesn't decrease, but would increase.
How about we work within the system to make changes. Would that be okay with you?
What makes me think DSM's and RVP's should get less is that they don't carry the weight the reps do. Furthermore, it is highly disturbing to me that someone on this thread who was supposedly a manager wrote with such disdain for physicians. Something about 100 to 150 drug reps providing more value to society than a doctor removing warts.
Is that the attitude you want the leadership of your company to have? "Doctors are a bunch of wart removers, but my reps are adding value to society". WTF? What happened to "we are GUESTS in the doctor's office"?
I know one thing. I don't think there's ever been a time in history when someone has fallen ill, and someone else has said "Quick! Call a drug rep!"