List of Non-Payment Labs

[anonymous]

Unfortunately, I’ve been seeing a lot of this recently. Let’s make a list to help each other weed out the non-payment labs. I’ll start.

Excel Laboratories
Althea

 

[anonymous]

Unfortunately, I’ve been seeing a lot of this recently. Let’s make a list to help each other weed out the non-payment labs. I’ll start.

Excel Laboratories
Althea

Let’s also start losing reps that violate the sunshine act and break the anti kickback statue with MSOs. I’ll start with a few of you would like.

 

[anonymous]

Let’s also start losing reps that violate the sunshine act and break the anti kickback statue with MSOs. I’ll start with a few of you would like.

Im really tired of reps who know nothing about the business acting like they are getting screwed. Yes, there are bad labs just like there are bad reps.
I guarantee that a majority of the time the rep gets paid when the lab gets paid and thats how it should be. Lab owners put up their capital and take all of the risk while reps take a large % and feel they should get paid even when the lab does not. Stop complaining and pointing fingers.

 

[anonymous]

Im really tired of reps who know nothing about the business acting like they are getting screwed. Yes, there are bad labs just like there are bad reps.
I guarantee that a majority of the time the rep gets paid when the lab gets paid and thats how it should be. Lab owners put up their capital and take all of the risk while reps take a large % and feel they should get paid even when the lab does not. Stop complaining and pointing fingers.

I agree. Most lab owners should drop 1099 reps immediately. To be in medical sales is a very grey area. Most of these reps have some type of kick arrangement with docs. Whether it is dinners or bar tabs. These reps break the sunshine act all the time. However, the scam is up. Compounding was the first to go. The “pharmacy experts” went to Pgx. That scam has now passed. Like compounding, these labs are being investigated with a fine tooth comb, and are paying fines or paying back money. Btw, don’t even think about signing docs up for clinical trials. That is the quickest way to end up in the clanker. Rep groups that are marketing this are actively breaking federal law. I know there is a group on this forum marketing this. Be very very careful, as federal law as it pertains to marketing clinical trials is very clear with many reps going to jail because of this.

 

[anonymous]

I agree. Most lab owners should drop 1099 reps immediately. To be in medical sales is a very grey area. Most of these reps have some type of kick arrangement with docs. Whether it is dinners or bar tabs. These reps break the sunshine act all the time. However, the scam is up. Compounding was the first to go. The “pharmacy experts” went to Pgx. That scam has now passed. Like compounding, these labs are being investigated with a fine tooth comb, and are paying fines or paying back money. Btw, don’t even think about signing docs up for clinical trials. That is the quickest way to end up in the clanker. Rep groups that are marketing this are actively breaking federal law. I know there is a group on this forum marketing this. Be very very careful, as federal law as it pertains to marketing clinical trials is very clear with many reps going to jail because of this.

Well said! These 1099 are scum and labs that use them are scum too. I hope all these labs go bankrupt. We are seeing sign already: AEON, Castle, PCL, AMMON, Premier, Precision, TrueTox, Lenco, All the Accu- labs in NJ. They can all rot in hell!

 

[Alex K]

Well said! These 1099 are scum and labs that use them are scum too. I hope all these labs go bankrupt. We are seeing sign already: AEON, Castle, PCL, AMMON, Premier, Precision, TrueTox, Lenco, All the Accu- labs in NJ. They can all rot in hell!

All of the ones you’ve mentioned are on my radar. If you are comfortable with connecting with me to discuss in more detail, let me know. For obvious reasons, can’t include my contact # to this public...

FWA Investigator - BCBS

 

[anonymous]

All of the ones you’ve mentioned are on my radar. If you are comfortable with connecting with me to discuss in more detail, let me know. For obvious reasons, can’t include my contact # to this public...

FWA Investigator - BCBS

Lol! Bcbs biggest scam insurance in the world! Why don’t you go investigate your slow pay no pay policy.

 

[anonymous]

We are seeing sign already: AEON, Castle, PCL, AMMON, Premier, Precision, TrueTox, Lenco, All the Accu- labs in NJ. They can all rot in hell!

Good info.

 

[anonymous]

All of the ones you’ve mentioned are on my radar. If you are comfortable with connecting with me to discuss in more detail, let me know. For obvious reasons, can’t include my contact # to this public...

FWA Investigator - BCBS

Add Pacific Toxicology Labs aka Pactox, Exceltox to Labs that don’t pay and steal your reps

 

[anonymous]

Add Pacific Toxicology Labs aka Pactox, Exceltox to Labs that don’t pay and steal your reps

Let me correct that. This lab doesn’t want to deal with an illegal middleman. Btw, none of your contacts ever hold up in court. Go f yourself, and stop being a bitch!

 

[Padro]

All of the ones you’ve mentioned are on my radar. If you are comfortable with connecting with me to discuss in more detail, let me know. For obvious reasons, can’t include my contact # to this public...

FWA Investigator - BCBS

How does someone get in touch with you?

 

[anonymous]

I agree. Most lab owners should drop 1099 reps immediately. To be in medical sales is a very grey area. Most of these reps have some type of kick arrangement with docs. Whether it is dinners or bar tabs. These reps break the sunshine act all the time. However, the scam is up. Compounding was the first to go. The “pharmacy experts” went to Pgx. That scam has now passed. Like compounding, these labs are being investigated with a fine tooth comb, and are paying fines or paying back money. Btw, don’t even think about signing docs up for clinical trials. That is the quickest way to end up in the clanker. Rep groups that are marketing this are actively breaking federal law. I know there is a group on this forum marketing this. Be very very careful, as federal law as it pertains to marketing clinical trials is very clear with many reps going to jail because of this.

You are so wrong about the clinical trials. Why are physicians doing trials currently and why have they been doing them for decades? Do you really think these physicians and some practices that are nothing but clinical trials do them because they just want to help mankind?
No, it is because they are legally paid for doing them by the pharmaceutical company.

The reason this is not a kickback is that there is NO filing of any insurance claim for treating that patient AND there is no filing of a claim for laboratory testing.
ANY laboratory testing that is required is paid for by the pharmaceutical sponsor. The sponsors are companies like Pfizer, Merck, GSK, etc and is the largest clinical trial company in the US with more physicians legally enrolled than any other clinical trial company. We currently have over 210 clinical trials.
Everyone involved in this program knows we strictly use 1099 reps including the mega Billion dollar sponsors and they would NOT be doing these with our clinical trial company if it was illegal in any way. This program is not like the corrupt compounding pharmacies that claimed they were doing trials too but like the corrupt labs the pharmacies were simply paying the doctors to send them the prescriptions so they could bill the patients insurance carrier.

You are making the assumption that these Phase III Clinical trials are like the trials that some of the labs were doing a couple of years ago promoting PGX. The difference is those labs were paying doctors to send them specimens for patients whose insurance was being billed HOWEVER and that's where the difference is because our trials does not involve insurance whatsoever. In fact it does not matter what insurance the patient has or if they don't even have insurance. Our trials are highly regulated by the FDA which is something that none of the labs claiming they were doing trials on PGX testing and the compounding pharmacies could ever say.
There is NO legal connection between the laboratory testing and the clinical trial program other than our reps can promote both. The connection is just that this program makes it easier to differentiate our services from other labs just like some of the other ancillary services we promote that clearly you cannot provide.

 

[anonymous]

You are so wrong about the clinical trials. Why are physicians doing trials currently and why have they been doing them for decades? Do you really think these physicians and some practices that are nothing but clinical trials do them because they just want to help mankind?
No, it is because they are legally paid for doing them by the pharmaceutical company.

The reason this is not a kickback is that there is NO filing of any insurance claim for treating that patient AND there is no filing of a claim for laboratory testing.
ANY laboratory testing that is required is paid for by the pharmaceutical sponsor. The sponsors are companies like Pfizer, Merck, GSK, etc and is the largest clinical trial company in the US with more physicians legally enrolled than any other clinical trial company. We currently have over 210 clinical trials.
Everyone involved in this program knows we strictly use 1099 reps including the mega Billion dollar sponsors and they would NOT be doing these with our clinical trial company if it was illegal in any way. This program is not like the corrupt compounding pharmacies that claimed they were doing trials too but like the corrupt labs the pharmacies were simply paying the doctors to send them the prescriptions so they could bill the patients insurance carrier.

You are making the assumption that these Phase III Clinical trials are like the trials that some of the labs were doing a couple of years ago promoting PGX. The difference is those labs were paying doctors to send them specimens for patients whose insurance was being billed HOWEVER and that's where the difference is because our trials does not involve insurance whatsoever. In fact it does not matter what insurance the patient has or if they don't even have insurance. Our trials are highly regulated by the FDA which is something that none of the labs claiming they were doing trials on PGX testing and the compounding pharmacies could ever say.
There is NO legal connection between the laboratory testing and the clinical trial program other than our reps can promote both. The connection is just that this program makes it easier to differentiate our services from other labs just like some of the other ancillary services we promote that clearly you cannot provide.

Ummm.... yes there is. These trials are completely illegal. Let me help you out douche bag.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/...case-highlights-the-fields-hope-and-hype.html

Hold on let me “supremely” own you further douche bag


https://www.statnews.com/2016/12/13/proove-opioid-risk-test/

I hope you aren’t “supremely” selling these trials.

 

[anonymous]

Ummm.... yes there is. These trials are completely illegal. Let me help you out douche bag.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/...case-highlights-the-fields-hope-and-hype.html

Hold on let me “supremely” own you further douche bag


https://www.statnews.com/2016/12/13/proove-opioid-risk-test/

I hope you aren’t “supremely” selling these trials.

Damn boy, you must not be able to read. LOL
I SAID that there is ZERO insurance being filled on these trials.
The 1st example you sited is EXACTLY what I said is illegal and NOT AT ALL WHAT WE ARE DOING AT ALL!!!

Renaissance was billing the patients insurance and they were NOT doing clinical trials of medications. They claimed they were doing trials of genetic testing.

Our trials are on PHASE III Clinical Trials of medications!!!
Our trials are NOT of laboratory testing in any way!!!

How many times do I need to explain this but our clinical trials are NOT regarding laboratory testing but are in regards to medications that pharma companies are hoping to get approved by the FDA.
In fact, If there is any laboratory testing required we are not even doing that testing. LOL

So your whole argument is totally baseless and clearly you have a learning disability or you would have been man enough to admit that the examples you are citing are not at all what we are doing.

1. You have failed to explain who do you think is paying for physicians to do clinical trials now or do you think that physicians are doing trials for free?

A Hint, it is the pharmaceutical companies whose drugs they want approved. Guess what, they have been paying doctors to enroll patients in their clinical trials for decades.

We simply set the physicians up in the trials so they can earn this great revenue. It has NOTHING to do with our lab OTHER than the fact that my lab sales reps can offer this service REGARDLESS of whether the physician uses our lab for their own laboratory testing or not. I have already talked to the Federal authorities and there is nothing whatsoever illegal about this program so you can take your false accusations elsewhere. Our Clinical Trial company is the largest in the US and we have more than 200 trials available on tons of medications available for a wide range of physicians.

 

[anonymous]

Damn boy, you must not be able to read. LOL
I SAID that there is ZERO insurance being filled on these trials.
The 1st example you sited is EXACTLY what I said is illegal and NOT AT ALL WHAT WE ARE DOING AT ALL!!!

Renaissance was billing the patients insurance and they were NOT doing clinical trials of medications. They claimed they were doing trials of genetic testing.

Our trials are on PHASE III Clinical Trials of medications!!!
Our trials are NOT of laboratory testing in any way!!!

How many times do I need to explain this but our clinical trials are NOT regarding laboratory testing but are in regards to medications that pharma companies are hoping to get approved by the FDA.
In fact, If there is any laboratory testing required we are not even doing that testing. LOL

So your whole argument is totally baseless and clearly you have a learning disability or you would have been man enough to admit that the examples you are citing are not at all what we are doing.

1. You have failed to explain who do you think is paying for physicians to do clinical trials now or do you think that physicians are doing trials for free?

A Hint, it is the pharmaceutical companies whose drugs they want approved. Guess what, they have been paying doctors to enroll patients in their clinical trials for decades.

We simply set the physicians up in the trials so they can earn this great revenue. It has NOTHING to do with our lab OTHER than the fact that my lab sales reps can offer this service REGARDLESS of whether the physician uses our lab for their own laboratory testing or not. I have already talked to the Federal authorities and there is nothing whatsoever illegal about this program so you can take your false accusations elsewhere. Our Clinical Trial company is the largest in the US and we have more than 200 trials available on tons of medications available for a wide range of physicians.

Reps can not be paid from clinical trials. Been there down that. Another scammer! Also, any written opinion from the OIG is called a white paper. No white paper has ever or will approve this scum bag. Go
Supremely screw over someone else.

 

[anonymous]

[QUOTE="
There is NO legal connection between the laboratory testing and the clinical trial program other than our reps can promote both. The connection is just that this program makes it easier to differentiate our services from other labs just like some of the other ancillary services we promote that clearly you cannot provide.[/QUOTE]

I'm not the original poster, and trying to follow this thread so bear with me. I don't think the OP was suggesting ALL clinical trials are illegal. Clinical trials divisions at Quest Dx and Labcorp and other CROs have been doing this for decades (as you mentioned). But the clinical trials moniker has been abused lately.

What IS your program? Are you a management company who hires reps and partners with pharma for these trials? I don't think the large clinical trials labs use 1099 reps. Do these 1099 reps off these trials as a way for the doctor to make money for their participation in these clinical trials? Do these 1099 reps sell non-clinical trial testing to the same physicians?

 

[anonymous]

[QUOTE="
There is NO legal connection between the laboratory testing and the clinical trial program other than our reps can promote both. The connection is just that this program makes it easier to differentiate our services from other labs just like some of the other ancillary services we promote that clearly you cannot provide.

I'm not the original poster, and trying to follow this thread so bear with me. I don't think the OP was suggesting ALL clinical trials are illegal. Clinical trials divisions at Quest Dx and Labcorp and other CROs have been doing this for decades (as you mentioned). But the clinical trials moniker has been abused lately.

What IS your program? Are you a management company who hires reps and partners with pharma for these trials? I don't think the large clinical trials labs use 1099 reps. Do these 1099 reps off these trials as a way for the doctor to make money for their participation in these clinical trials? Do these 1099 reps sell non-clinical trial testing to the same physicians?[/QUOTE]

That’s what this scum bag doesn’t understand. IRBs will never allow a rep to make money off a trial, and if the same physician is ordering lab tests for the rep, that is a big no no. This guy is a Supreme scum bag. He used to be a pain cream expert, and now is a lab sales and CRO
expert. The feds need to put this Supreme scum bag where he belongs. Hey dirt, it is called a confirmation bias, go suck a phallus, and pay the reps you ripped off!

 

[anonymous]

I'm not the original poster, and trying to follow this thread so bear with me. I don't think the OP was suggesting ALL clinical trials are illegal. Clinical trials divisions at Quest Dx and Labcorp and other CROs have been doing this for decades (as you mentioned). But the clinical trials moniker has been abused lately.

What IS your program? Are you a management company who hires reps and partners with pharma for these trials? I don't think the large clinical trials labs use 1099 reps. Do these 1099 reps off these trials as a way for the doctor to make money for their participation in these clinical trials? Do these 1099 reps sell non-clinical trial testing to the same physicians?

That’s what this scum bag doesn’t understand. IRBs will never allow a rep to make money off a trial, and if the same physician is ordering lab tests for the rep, that is a big no no. This guy is a Supreme scum bag. He used to be a pain cream expert, and now is a lab sales and CRO
expert. The feds need to put this Supreme scum bag where he belongs. Hey dirt, it is called a confirmation bias, go suck a phallus, and pay the reps you ripped off![/QUOTE]


Wrong. Our Clinical Trial company DOES use 1099 reps. so that's your first mistake. A clinical trial company can compensate their reps any way they want and they can either pay W2 or 1099 for the reps to recruit and sign up the physicians to participate in these clinical trials.

We are a distributor for the clinical trial company. Both ways of paying reps are perfectly legal. Of course EVERY clinical trial company in the US is offering the physicians a way to make money otherwise 99.999999% of physicians would NEVER do trials as they would go out of business. There is no connection whatsoever between physicians doing trials and our lab testing. The clinical trial program alone can generate tremendous residual income for reps without any testing being done by any physician. Just because our reps can offer these trials DOES NOT make them illegible to offer our lab services to the physician, there is no law against that and it would be insane to even suggest that.

These clinical trials do NOT involve ANY filing of insurance claims either by commercial carriers or by federal programs so there is no potential kickback or breaking of any Stark laws. Basically the physician will only get compensated by the pharmaceutical company through our clinical trial company for having their patients participating in these trials. They are not being paid to order testing, they are being paid for finding patients who fit the criteria of the trial such as having BP greater than 140/90 and trying a new Phase III medication to see how it lowers the BP vs another medication or placebo.

You can be jealous all you want to and try to throw insults our way but this program has already been given the green light for years on being perfectly legal so it shows how much you grade school drop out lawyers know about this program. There is NO obligation on the part of any physician to use our lab or to even do testing, this is just one of the ancillary services we offer our reps so they can differentiate themselves to their physicians. We have never ripped anyone off and have always paid our reps on the sales collected. I always laugh at the people who hide on boards like this throwing out insults and lies when they know they are making up garbage simply because they cannot compete against us. Why else would they refuse to say who they are unless they are ashamed and know they have nothing to back up their lies.

I agree with you that the clinical trial moniker has been abused by many people but as far as I know in EVERY single case mentioned above and in all the abuse cases it was because some organization such as a lab or pharmacy was paying a bribe to someone so that the organization could collect money on the insurance policy of the patient.

We are NOT filing ANY insurance claims and the ONLY money involved is the money paid to the physicians practice through our clinical trial company. The medication is GIVEN to the patient for free and in fact the patients is typically paid a small amount for participating in the trials JUST LIKE EVERY other clinical trial company does. When I worked for a pharma company we helped recruit some physicians to participate in a clinical trial and in that case just like now the physician was PAID for participating in the trial, the patient was given the medication for free and were in fact paid a small fee for each visit to the physician regarding the trial.

Physicians have been doing these trials for many years earning hundreds of thousands of dollars EVERY year just for doing 2-3 trials per year with just a handful of patients and the reps can possibly earn $40,000 plus off one doctor if they do a few trials per year.

Every day that a pharma companies product is not approved by the FDA costs that pharma company MILLIONS per day so doesn't it make perfect sense that they would be willing to pay big bucks to physicians to recruit the patients as fast as possible and to get the trial completed ASAP? This is done so they can hopefully be granted FDA approval and they can finally bring their product to the marketplace and start making BILLIONS.

 

[anonymous]

Reps can not be paid from clinical trials. Been there down that. Another scammer! Also, any written opinion from the OIG is called a white paper. No white paper has ever or will approve this scum bag. Go
Supremely screw over someone else.

I stumbled across this thread and while I don't know who you are I can assure you that I have been working promoting clinical trials for years and years making a great income as a 1099 rep so you are wrong about reps not being able to get paid from clinical trials. Who told you that nonsense?

I don't believe the guy said the OIG ever gave a written opinion. You don't have to get a written opinion to talk to someone and get some free advice about what you can and cannot do.

In fact, what doesn't make any sense is why there is all this debate about physicians getting paid for participating in clinical trials as we all know that this has been going on for longer than many reps have been alive. What I don't understand is how you think anyone can be scammed on a clinical trial.

With my company the physicians sign a contract with the pharmaceutical company and are paid as they participate in the trial. I was paid whenever the physicians were paid as we were all paid by the sponsor either directly or indirectly.

If this guys program is like the company I work for then you would know very quickly whether it is legit or not as these trials are very regulated by the FDA. In fact it would not make any sense for anyone to try and pull a scam because there is no profit in it. Any rep would stop signing up practices just as soon as they saw their physicians getting paid and not them and any physician would stop conducting the trials if they were not getting paid. If that happened the pharmaceutical company would not get the clinical data they need to get their product approved so they have no reason not to pay. From what I have read this one poster has said that the physicians do not have to use his lab or the reps to even promote his lab so where is the scam?

 

[anonymous]

I stumbled across this thread and while I don't know who you are I can assure you that I have been working promoting clinical trials for years and years making a great income as a 1099 rep so you are wrong about reps not being able to get paid from clinical trials. Who told you that nonsense?

I don't believe the guy said the OIG ever gave a written opinion. You don't have to get a written opinion to talk to someone and get some free advice about what you can and cannot do.

In fact, what doesn't make any sense is why there is all this debate about physicians getting paid for participating in clinical trials as we all know that this has been going on for longer than many reps have been alive. What I don't understand is how you think anyone can be scammed on a clinical trial.

With my company the physicians sign a contract with the pharmaceutical company and are paid as they participate in the trial. I was paid whenever the physicians were paid as we were all paid by the sponsor either directly or indirectly.

If this guys program is like the company I work for then you would know very quickly whether it is legit or not as these trials are very regulated by the FDA. In fact it would not make any sense for anyone to try and pull a scam because there is no profit in it. Any rep would stop signing up practices just as soon as they saw their physicians getting paid and not them and any physician would stop conducting the trials if they were not getting paid. If that happened the pharmaceutical company would not get the clinical data they need to get their product approved so they have no reason not to pay. From what I have read this one poster has said that the physicians do not have to use his lab or the reps to even promote his lab so where is the scam?

Scumbag, I have been working for cros for years. Rep can not be laid to recruit or sign up docs. No IRB would ever approve that! This is another scam. Don’t fall this scam artist again!